Do DARTers officially say 'hey it's just Putin defending against NATO aggression' or did they swallow the fucking red pill and get back to reality?
This website is Russia-owned. What is our official stance on the Russian genocide of Ukraine?
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What a preposterous thread. Everyone from Russia I know viscerally opposes Putin's idiotic war in Ukraine, and is afraid to state as much because they risk incarceration if they do so under Putin's new laws. Blaming the Russian people for Putin's idiotic war is like blaming all Americans for Dick Cheney's push to invade Iraq.
Russians are afraid of a return to the old ways of the USSR, when having the wrong political opinion can get you sent to a labor camp for ten years or worse.
Russians are tired of their sons, most of whom are no more than eighteen or nineteen, being conscripted into the Russian army to be sent home from Ukraine in body bags. The videos of barely-trained Russian kids (teenage and 20-something boys, mostly) being captured by the Ukrainian army as POWs are hard to watch. These aren't Roman Abramovich's sons, either. They're the sons of Russia's poorest families, often from the provinces, who had no other option.
Russians are exhausted with the stupidity of American-led sanctions, because they all know there is no world where those sanctions change anything, even if the ruble's value was destroyed (which it has not). Instead, American rivals are just buying and selling oil from Russia in rubles, jeopardizing the petrodollar and the American dollar's status as the world's reserve currency. No American president has acted more incompetently. Not even Jimmy Carter. The purpose of American sanctions is to destabilize Putin's regime, which has never worked and will never work. The only time that strategy even came close was when Obama concurrently flooded the market with cheap Saudi oil. Yet, oil prices are at record highs --- to Russia's considerable benefit --- due in no small part to the astonishing idiocy and incompetence of Joe Biden, the State Department and every alleged "expert" involved in formulating that strategy. On top of that, Biden acutely reduced anticipated global oil supply through numerously idiotic "green new deal" type "environmental measures," including thwarting the Keystone Pipeline. Each of these measures were a gift to Putin's government, because they collectively drove oil prices through the roof.
All the while, Biden has managed to accomplish nothing other than further consolidate Putin's power, push Western "allies" closer to Moscow (like India) and facilitate greater cooperation between NATO rivals (like Beijing and Moscow).
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@coal
I see, I see.
So when your personally beloved Bush Jr. (or his American military people, depending on your perspective) bombed and tortured Iraqis left right and centre in the name of his agenda with Iraq and against Saddam Hussein, was that US doing it or your beloved Bush Jr?
I am asking only to understand your personal view of reality and where you decide to blur the line between country and leader and where you suddenly leave a leader blameless for war crimes and blame the people instead.
If you'd like me to link to you sympathising with George Bush Jr. I can do so.
I am happy to vilify Putin, I am not sure what happened to make you think I hate all Russians but Putin is the leader of which country? Which nation is aggressing in this war? Not 'Putin', I can tell you that.
How about the drone attacks on innocent people in Pakistan? Do you hold Bush Jr. responsible for those or is that again just a flaw of the circumstance?
See the third sentence of my post, above.
If your personal stance is you object to Russia invading Ukraine and that every Russian is therefore responsible for it then you can leave the site. China commits a Tri-Cities all the time if you watch TV you're supporting China or pretty much buy anything at this point. Have you renounced your American citizenship and become Canadian or a citizen of some other country he feels more moral in the United States. I mean we're not necessarily adding money to the Russian war machine by posting here.
Well, incumbent Vladimir Putin won reelection for his second consecutive (fourth overall) term in office with 77% of the vote.
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@FLRW
Well, incumbent Vladimir Putin won reelection for his second consecutive (fourth overall) term in office with 77% of the vote.
This says everything that needs to be said about you
Do we need a site stance on this? We are all individual users. We all have our own stances. My stance is that what Putin is doing is obviously wrong, but why do we need the whole site to unite on this? We can try to get as many people to our side as possible, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion on a debate website.
To bring up Mike’s nationality is irrelevant, and call me crazy, but I missed when companies just advertised their product instead of some trending cause in the news cycle. There is no need or reason to pressure an official statement out of him or any company or business owner.
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@RationalMadman
@FLRW
FLR.....Well, incumbent Vladimir Putin won reelection for his second consecutive (fourth overall) term in office with 77% of the vote.
Is that the percentage Trumpet won with over Hillary? Or Bush Jr over whomever it was?
Trevor Noahs person visits Russian establishments in NY
..." Fun Fact: Borscht is a Ukrainian national dish that was popularized in
Russia during the Soviets and now it’s known as Russian. Just
imperialistic stuff. "..
I didn't know this website took official stands on things. Who's in charge of that?
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@oromagi
Since this is a debate website, I'd say we should never take an official stance on any current topic so we can maintain neutrality.
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@Polytheist-Witch
@Mharman
@Polytheist-Witch:
If your personal stance is you object to Russia invading Ukraine and that every Russian is therefore responsible for it then you can leave the site.
I know a few members who should have boycotted this forum in protest (assuming RationalMadman's allegation is to be believed)--including RationalMadman.
@Mharman:
Do we need a site stance on this?
According to RationalMadman's attention mongering, yes we do.
We are all individual users.
The reference to us as "we" would undermine that.
My stance is that what Putin is doing is obviously wrong, but why do we need the whole site to unite on this?
So RationalMadman can feel better.
We can try to get as many people to our side as possible, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion on a debate website.
I suppose that's possible in theory.
To bring up Mike’s nationality is irrelevant
You mean our creator? So RationalMadman is just being racist? Not surprising.
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@RationalMadman
The site itself seems unlikely to have any official stance.
The owner is unlikely to be able to make any statements. Apparently it's illegal to even say "invasion" in Russia these days. With that in mind, I think we can take silence from Russians to imply condemnation which cannot be safely voiced.
Personally as someone who is pro-human rights, I believe the faster Putin dies by any means, the better for the human race.
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@Barney
Can we type that on a Russian website? Is it racist to worry?
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@coal
I agree with your view of what most ordinary Russian people think, but are afraid to say.
And for sure Putin is a typical old style, paranoid, Russian megalomaniac.
So we wait upon Putin's demise, and the Global community will be in period of turmoil for the foreseeable future.......These situations have a tendency to arise.
As for oil:
Well anything that makes us aware of our unsustainable dependency on fossil fuels, has got to be a good thing.
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@coal
What a preposterous thread. Everyone from Russia I know viscerally opposes Putin's idiotic war in Ukraine, and is afraid to state as much because they risk incarceration if they do so under Putin's new laws. Blaming the Russian people for Putin's idiotic war is like blaming all Americans for Dick Cheney's push to invade Iraq.
well stated
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@Barney
Personally as someone who is pro-human rights, I believe the faster Putin dies by any means, the better for the human race.
i'm guessing you've somehow drawn the conclusion that some individuals are more human than others
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@FLRW
Well, incumbent Vladimir Putin won reelection for his second consecutive (fourth overall) term in office with 77% of the vote.
all serious challengers have been imprisioned and or assassinated
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@3RU7AL
i'm guessing you've somehow drawn the conclusion that some individuals are more human than others
I do entertain the notion that some people by their own choices, reject shared humanity. While I would still classify Putin as technically human, like a cancerous growth that is also technically human, surgery is needed to remove it.
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@ILikePie5
This says everything that needs to be said about you
Dosvedanya
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@Barney
I do entertain the notion that some people by their own choices, reject shared humanity. While I would still classify Putin as technically human, like a cancerous growth that is also technically human, surgery is needed to remove it.
does this "cancer analogy" apply to any other "(sub)humans" or is this a case of "special-pleading" ?
the concept of "human rights" is something of an obsession for me
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@RationalMadman
Can we type that on a Russian website? Is it racist to worry?
It's not racist to dislike racists. Additionally, it is fear over a valid cultural issue which is not passed down genetically.
And yes, Russian aggression against Ukraine is racist. They previously ethnically cleaned up to 8 million Ukrainians.
If you were looking closely at the head shapes of the two, to declare that makes one better, then you would be committing racism.
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@3RU7AL
does this "cancer analogy" apply to any other "(sub)humans" or is this a case of "special-pleading" ?the concept of "human rights" is something of an obsession for me
Certainly. The key thing being that it is by someone's willful choice, not genetics or even culture.
To support that it's not a cultural issue: I had to disown half my family, due to their sustained pro-genocide beliefs. While I was raised/brainwashed in that isolated environment, having any compassion I disagreed with murdering everyone who isn't one of us.
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@DebateArt.com
Your Russian. What do you think about this?
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@Barney
Certainly. The key thing being that it is by someone's willful choice, not genetics or even culture.
ok, so, no blanket or base "human-rights" for criminal convicts and or terrorism suspects ?
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@3RU7AL
Not so. Human rights still apply. Granted, people try to apply human rights to things that are not rights.
As an example, Incels insist women not putting out is human rights violation against them. It should be self evident that using someone elses body, is not a right.
Putting mass murderers on trail would certainly be ideal. It is however not always feasible. Putting a stop to killings, takes precedence.
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@Barney
It's not racist to dislike racists. Additionally, it is fear over a valid cultural issue which is not passed down genetically.And yes, Russian aggression against Ukraine is racist. They previously ethnically cleaned up to 8 million Ukrainians.If you were looking closely at the head shapes of the two, to declare that makes one better, then you would be committing racism.
Is it "racist" to create a thread proposing that members of a forum collectively submit a unified stance against the Russian-Ukraine conflict solely because the native language of the member responsible for the conception and inception of said forum is Russian?
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@Athias
You can dislike every aspect of it for a host of reasons, but unless a specific perceived genetic component comes into it, then it's not racist.
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@Barney
Human rights still apply.
what specific "line" do you believe needs to be crossed before "a right to life" evaporates ?