The cowardice and ignorance of the Hungarians

Author: Amoranemix

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#1
Amoranemix
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In the elections last Sunday Fidesz, the ruling party of Hungary with leader Victor Orban, won with 53% of the votes against 35% for the united opposition. That gives them 135 of 190 seats in parliament, or a 2/3 majority. That allows them to change to constitution in their favour, as they have done in the past.

Victor Orban is a friend of Vladimir Putin. For example, Hungary approved of the annexation of Crimea and opposed European sanctions against Russia after the invasion of Ukraine. It was thought that that closeness would play agains Fidesz in the elections, but apparently the opposite has happened. Since the voters were afraid of Russia, they wanted to stay on Putin’s good side. So who better to support than Putin’s friend Victor Orban ? That is cowardice. It stands in contrast to Ukrainian valor. Poland also opposes rather than appeases Russia out of fear. Bullies are best dealt with by standing up united against them. Appeasing them may be good for you, but it comes at the expense of other victims, as it makes the bully stronger. The Kremlin invaded Ukraine because it had learned from past reactions to its agression that it could get away with such behaviour.

Probably most Hungarians don’t know the long term damage they are doing. If they had, Fidesz would probably have been less successful. So it is not just cowerdice; it is also ignorance. Winston Churchill once said : “The best argument against democracy is the a five minute conversation with the average voter.” There must be many average voters in Hungary.

Although Hungarian democracy has been weakened, it was still within the people’s power to oust an autocrat. Thanks to the European Union that will probably still be possible in four years. Whether this result is good for Hungary (their friendship with Russia gives them safety and cheaper gas) in the long run remains to be seen, but it is bad for Europe in general and especially for Ukraine.

The Fidesz government handed out many presents during the election campaign and are now hoping to benefit from the Corona-fund of the EU. Of course that fund must remain blocked. It is not the EU’s duty to fund the election campaigns of parties that undermine European values.
#2
RationalMadman
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What precisely could the Hungarians have done? How certain are you that the opposition party were not just as corrupt?

You are calling all Hungarians cowards but 47% did not vote for him out of those that voted.
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If you are going to shit on an Eastern European nation for cowardice in this war look no further than Belarus.

Belarus eagerly joined Russia until 2-3 days into the war when they realised Putin was going to keep using Belarusian infantry as frontliners, regardless of their training or experience. 

Belarus has been the number 2 (after Russia) trafficking centre for humans, almost as high for drugs trafficking, ever since such trades became a thing in Eastern Europe and Belarus existed.
#4
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@Amoranemix
All this talk of free and fair elections. Looks like someone doesn't like them when it doesn't go their way.
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@sadolite
Exactly. Maybe Putin was the lesser of 2 evils considering all the civilians the Ukraine army massacred trying to crush Crimea and the Donbas in the ongoing civil war.
#6
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@Amoranemix
 “The best argument against democracy is the a five minute conversation with the average voter.” There must be many average voters in Hungary.
So, you think that the majority of people in Hungary becoming single-issue voters on being pro-war against Russia would somehow indicate that they are smart?
This is ludicrous. You aren't Hungarian.
You don't have any chance of dying in a conflict with Russia, so don't pretend to be some brave warrior condemning Hungary for not wanting to have their children slaughtered or to get economically decimated at the very least by being cut off from natural resources.


Although Hungarian democracy has been weakened, it was still within the people’s power to oust an autocrat. 
Oh no! A right-wing guy that cares about his country won an election! The horror!

It is not the EU’s duty to fund the election campaigns of parties that undermine European values.
The values of dying natives, mass immigration, and transgenderism? I wonder why they voted for this guy who doesn't share those values
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#7
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@RationalMadman
@sadolite
@bmdrocks21
What precisely could the Hungarians have done?[1] How certain are you that the opposition party were not just as corrupt?[2]

You are calling all Hungarians cowards but 47% did not vote for him out of those that voted.[3]
[1] They could have voted differently. Unfortunately, the population's infatuation with Fidesz over the past decade has dwindled their options.
[2] I have no information on the level of corruption of the Hungarian opposition. There is good reason to believe Fidesz is corrupt : hungarytoday.hu/transparency-international-corruption-index-hungary-ranks-second-worst-eu/
[3] That wasn't an election with only two candicates like in the U.S.A., where 53% is just enough. In a multiparty democracy like Hungary still is, 53% is ample.
I agree that not all Hungarians are cowards, nor have behaved cowardly. Nonetheless analysts believe that the desire to appease the Kremlin influenced the election enough to give Fidesz a majority. On average they behaved cowardly.

If you are going to shit on an Eastern European nation for cowardice in this war look no further than Belarus.

Belarus eagerly joined Russia until 2-3 days into the war when they realised Putin was going to keep using Belarusian infantry as frontliners, regardless of their training or experience.

Belarus has been the number 2 (after Russia) trafficking centre for humans, almost as high for drugs trafficking, ever since such trades became a thing in Eastern Europe and Belarus existed.
Belarus is a dictatorship. The regime, not the people decided to back Russia : www.wsj.com/articles/belarusians-russians-join-ukraines-military-hoping-for-freedom-at-home-11649325276

All this talk of free and fair elections. Looks like someone doesn't like them when it doesn't go their way.
Is there a relevant point you are trying to make ?

Probably most Hungarians don’t know the long term damage they are doing. If they had, Fidesz would probably have been less successful. So it is not just cowerdice; it is also ignorance. Winston Churchill once said : “The best argument against democracy is the a five minute conversation with the average voter.”[*] There must be many average voters in Hungary.
[*] So, you think that the majority of people in Hungary becoming single-issue voters on being pro-war against Russia would somehow indicate that they are smart? [4]
This is ludicrous. You aren't Hungarian.
You don't have any chance of dying in a conflict with Russia, so don't pretend to be some brave warrior condemning Hungary for not wanting to have their children slaughtered or to get economically decimated at the very least by being cut off from natural resources.
[4] No.
[5] Don't worry. I have no plans to do that.

Although Hungarian democracy has been weakened, it was still within the people’s power to oust an autocrat.[*] Thanks to the European Union that will probably still be possible in four years. Whether this result is good for Hungary (their friendship with Russia gives them safety and cheaper gas) in the long run remains to be seen, but it is bad for Europe in general and especially for Ukraine.
[*] Oh no! A right-wing guy that cares about his country won an election! The horror!
Why would that be horrible ?

The Fidesz government handed out many presents during the election campaign and are now hoping to benefit from the Corona-fund of the EU. Of course that fund must remain blocked. It is not the EU’s duty to fund the election campaigns of parties that undermine European values.
The values of dying natives, mass immigration, and transgenderism?[6] I wonder why they voted for this guy who doesn't share those values
[6] No. They are human dignity, human rights, democarcy, freedom, rule of law and equality. Learn about them here : ec.europa.eu/component-library/eu/about/eu-values/


#8
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@Amoranemix
Let me get this straight...

You think all Hungarians back Russia because their corrupt leader does. How can they democratically overthrow their leader? Have you ever voted for a candidate that made a call/decision you disagree with but you like some of their other policies?

Furthermore, what exactly is your definition of cowardice? Are all Russians cowards?
#9
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@Amoranemix
They are human dignity, human rights, democracy, freedom, rule of law and equality.
Will Smith proved none of that shit matters when the things you care about are taken away.
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#10
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@RationalMadman
@Greyparrot
Let me get this straight...

You think all Hungarians back Russia because their corrupt leader does.[7] How can they democratically overthrow their leader?[8] Have you ever voted for a candidate that made a call/decision you disagree with but you like some of their other policies?[9]

Furthermore, what exactly is your definition of cowardice? Are all Russians cowards?[10]
[7] No.
First, not all Hungarians.
Second, not Russia, but the Russian regime.
Third, they back the Russian regime in the sense that their actions support it, not in the sense that they wish it well. Cowardice drives them, not fondness.
[8] Read about the democratic process here : www.humanrightscareers.com/issues/what-are-democratic-processes/
[9] Yes.
[10] According to www.dictionary.com :
cowardice: lack of courage to face danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.
No, not all Russians are cowards.

They are human dignity, human rights, democracy, freedom, rule of law and equality.
Will Smith proved none of that shit matters when the things you care about are taken away.
He proved not such thing. Moreover, Will Smith's actions weren't driven by cowardice or ignorance.
#11
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@Amoranemix
You disregard an angry mob as cowardly at your own peril.
#12
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@Amoranemix
If you call the Russian Regime as opposed to the Russian peoplecowardly, even though Putin was voted in (several times), but refuse to give Hungarians their regime the same distinction, you are not worth my time and energy. Enjoy debating the others who think you are worth the effort.
#13
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At this point the result in Hungary was to be expected. Orban's been in charge quite a while already, anyhow.

What's really interesting is France. Le Pen has a second chance at the presidency and it'll be a wild ride for the whole West if she somehow gets it.
#14
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@Swagnarok
We record history but we never learn from it.

And old men soon lose touch with young people.

Boys, unsophisticated machinery and pompous old rhetoric are seemingly no match for determined technological warfare.

But it all makes for one hell of a fucking mess.

Old men die, and new old men will take their place.

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@Swagnarok
@RationalMadman
RationalMadman 12 :
If you call the Russian Regime as opposed to the Russian peoplecowardly, even though Putin was voted in (several times), but refuse to give Hungarians their regime the same distinction, you are not worth my time and energy. Enjoy debating the others who think you are worth the effort.
I don't call the Russian Regime cowardly.

Swagnarok 13 :
At this point the result in Hungary was to be expected. Orban's been in charge quite a while already, anyhow.
What's really interesting is France. Le Pen has a second chance at the presidency and it'll be a wild ride for the whole West if she somehow gets it.
Citizens in the rich West have grown accustomed to living above their means. Therefore they tend to vote for politicians who promise that with them in power, they can keep living above their means. If such politicians have befriended questionable regimes, that is merely a minor inconvenience.
#16
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@Amoranemix
LOL! Top quality comedy.

So you won't call Putin a coward but will call Hungary a coward?

If Hungary was as big and singularly powerful as Russia, then you can call it a coward.

China and India have been cowards during this, not Hungary, they're just biding time.

So, if you accuse Hungary's leadership of cowardice, leave it at that or else you seem ignorant of this:

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#17
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@RationalMadman
RationalMadman 12 :
LOL! Top quality comedy.[11]

So you won't call Putin a coward but will call Hungary a coward? [12]

If Hungary was as big and singularly powerful as Russia, then you can call it a coward.

China and India have been cowards during this, not Hungary, they're just biding time. [13]

So, if you accuse Hungary's leadership of cowardice, leave it at that or else you seem ignorant of this: [14]

[11] Grow up.
[12] No.
[13] China and India don't fear the Russian army. They want to keep good relations mainly for economic and political reasons.
The Hungarian strategy is one of appeasement, not one of time-biding.
[14] In stead of spamming hypotheticals, I suggest you read my posts to discover what I claim and believe, so you could make yourself worthy of debating.
Harbouring refugies is not courageous.