biden is being too provocative in escalating tensions with russia over ukraine

Author: n8nrgim

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#1
n8nrgim
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the media is good at telling us we should care about ukraine getting invaded, but they aren't good at telling us why. 

what does biden do? he says he'll consider adding ukraine to NATO, and he is moving troops to NATO countries. these are needlessly escalating tensions.

what's the reason for such strong language? his actions are so untethered i can't quite pin point a reasonable motive. maybe it's as simple as ukraine being soverign is in the USAs best interests, and biden is just trying to act tough and is over reacting. id say a reasonable approach is to take what GDP ukraine is, and if russia invades, do twice as much GDP damage to russian GDP. that's tough without over reacting. give putin a choice. it's really not our business to be sticking our noses into otherwise. even the ukrainian president thinks the US president and media are over reacting. 
#2
Incel-chud
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We have two choices here essentially.

1. Inaction

Worst case scenario is that Russia takes the ukraine and it has zero affect on the western world and never will effect the west. 

2. Action against Russia


Worst case scenario is nuclear holocaust out of escalating tensions. 


The only things that should be considered in decision making is Worst case scenarios and if we weigh each Worst case scenario than we see the decision of non interference is best
#3
oromagi
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the media is good at telling us we should care about ukraine getting invaded, but they aren't good at telling us why. 
  • Some media are good at telling us why.  What media are you relying on to tell you this story?

what does biden do? he says he'll consider adding ukraine to NATO, and he is moving troops to NATO countries. these are needlessly escalating tensions.
  • Well, if Russia ever wants to be a superpower again, they probably need to take over Ukraine.  Western democracies don't want a land hungry Russia under another evil dictator to become a superpower again so action is entirely warranted on behalf of Europe's youngest democracy.

  • I don't know how Western democracies can be reasonably criticized for standing fast against Russian invasions.  Russia illegally stole the Crimea in 2014 and has been conducting warfare on Ukrainian soil on two major fronts for 8 years.  Going to war with your sovereign neighbors is what I call "needlessly escalating tension."  not objecting to such war crimes.

what's the reason for such strong language?
  • Invasions by evil dictators traditionally warrant very strong language.  The lesson of Chamberlain is that pussyfooting around with dictators just gives them more room to maneuver.  

his actions are so untethered i can't quite pin point a reasonable motive.
  • Dictators keep conquering until they are stopped.  There is no scenario where Putin is satisfied and stops trying to expand Russia.  If Putin is not intimidated back into his hole, then the choice is between smaller war now or bigger war later.  There is not any reasonable choice where Putin gets what he wants here.
maybe it's as simple as ukraine being soverign is in the USAs best interests,
...and democratic.  Yes the US has a powerful economic and strategic interest in keeping Europe free for capitalism and open societies.

and biden is just trying to act tough and is over reacting.
What's the downside for Biden?   If Russia attacks he gets to say I told you so, if Russia backs down Biden looks tough on Russia which Americans want to see after all of Russia interference in our politics and economy.

id say a reasonable approach is to take what GDP ukraine is, and if russia invades, do twice as much GDP damage to russian GDP. that's tough without over reacting. give putin a choice. it's really not our business to be sticking our noses into otherwise. even the ukrainian president thinks the US president and media are over reacting. 
I'd say a reasonable approach would be to drop a pellet of Putin's signature radioactive poison in his morning cup of tea and encourage Russia to run free and fair elections as soon as possible.

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#4
n8nrgim
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@oromagi
what do you think of ukraine telling biden to stop escalating the situation? 

what do you think when people say biden is sticking his nose into business that isn't his? 


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@n8nrgim
his actions are so untethered i can't quite pin point a reasonable motive.
Do you know what the military industrial complex is?

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@n8nrgim
it's really not our business to be sticking our noses into otherwise.
Not one of the European nations wants to admit Ukraine into Nato nor will shed an ounce of blood over it. Hell, some of them welcome collaboration with Russia (like Germany)

With allies like these, who needs enemies?

The real problem isn't what to do about Putin but what are we going to do about a NATO that doesn't really care about America anymore?
#7
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@oromagi
Do u think the USA has a right to pick a fight with Russia as the USA is currently doing? 
#8
Polytheist-Witch
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If the Ukraine isn't asking for help then we need to stay out of it. Seems to me the US government is viewing it as an appropriate distraction from what might be going on in our own country.
#9
oromagi
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-->@oromagi
what do you think of ukraine telling biden to stop escalating the situation? 
Again- where's the downside?  Zelensky gets to put some distance between himself and Biden- show that he's no puppet.  America is not particularly popular in Ukraine so no worries and he gets to set a non-belligerent tone to counter Putin's belligerence.  If I were Biden, I would  have advises Zelensky to push back.

what do you think when people say biden is sticking his nose into business that isn't his? 
I think about how that opinion started in Moscow and then appeared in Republican media outlets.  The synergy between these two anti-democratic forces is undeniable.

Certainly, no Republicans criticized Trump when he got caught trying to trade Congress' $400 million worth of arms in exchange for telling some lies about Hunter Biden.  Both of those schemes were sticking Trump's nose pretty deep into Ukraine's business and yet Trumpers back then made not a  single peep.  Republicans refused to even investigate because they were afraid of what they might uncover.   Its pretty clear that there's no ideological consistency or rational thread behind the Russian/Republican argument- it is just thinking some way without thinking too hard because it benefits Putin or Trump.
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@n8nrgmi
Do u think the USA has a right to pick a fight with Russia as the USA is currently doing? 
Europe has a right to pick a fight with Russia considering Europe lost half of Europe to Russia for half of the 20th century.   US strategic interests are contractually bound to Europe.  We have made promises to Europe as Europe has made promises to us.  Europe kept its promise and stood with the US in Afghanistan for twenty years, even though Europe was sick of it from the start.  Now Europe asks for our help and we're going to walk away from the alliance that won WW1, WW2, and the Cold War?  Why?  To whose advantage except Putin and Trump and in the long run China?  Why would we break our alliance with Western Democracies for the sake of those two snakes?

n8nrgmi <=> n8nrgim
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