MRA/MRM futility

Author: Analgesic.Spectre 6 years ago

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Total: 15

Topic's author

Analgesic.Spectre

Debates: 1

Posts: 468

Analgesic.Spectre

08.12.2018 04:42AM

As men become increasingly disenfranchised with society (see MGTOW), their genuine issues are being met with little but derision by most women. Barring individuals like Cassie Jay and Girlwriteswhat, who are arguably in it for the attention/money, honest discussion about men's issues, from my experience, is met with one of four responses:

1) NAWALT (not all women are like that)

2) Be a man

3) Work hard [for women]

4) Stop whining

For example, from 2009-2014 in the UK, 97% of workplace deaths were men (http://www.inside-man.co.uk/2015/03/03/97-employees-die-work-men-2009-2014-figures/).

Where is the media hysteria about this? Where are the conversations about this? Where are the feminists campaigning for equality now? Please, find me a source where you have droves of men and women discussing this, much like they would discuss feminist issues (e.gs. rape culture, the wage gap).

What could explain this apathy?

Personally, and this is yet to be armed with statistics, I think this extends from men's place in sexual reproduction. You can birth 50 children every 9 months with 50 women and 1 man in your tribe, yet only 1 child with a tribe of 50 men and 1 woman. Unless the man brings some kind of utility to the tribe (such as physical strength, which is why woman are attracted to it), there is no reason for the tribe to keep him alive, whereas a (fertile) woman is inherently valuable. This is why these alarming statistics don't register many cares throughout the world. We're biologically programmed to care less about men than women, unless the men are useful. Women are human beings; men are human doings.

The fact that workplace death, and many other statistics (male homelessness, family court bias, inequality in teacher rape convictions, child custody disparity etc.) are largely ignored by larger media, suggests a rather uncomfortable truth: men, and their feelings, are disposable. If we are to agree that this is the case, and I think there could be debate on this claim, then we reach the conclusion that it is futile to argue MRA/MRM stances, simply because women (and society at large) don't care about men.

Smithereens

Debates: 2

Posts: 502

Smithereens

08.12.2018 09:45AM

https://imgur.com/a/Ca23maQ

79 days later

Wylted

Debates: 34

Posts: 5,754

Wylted

10.30.2018 11:39PM

Inequality in teacher rape convictions? You mean the 16 year old boys who fuck their hot history teacher vs the men who prey on little girls by giving them drugs or alcohol and typically target pre teens. Wow the courts are so biased against men in this situation.

Greyparrot

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Posts: 25,989

Greyparrot

11.02.2018 12:21PM

Men need women like a bicycle needs a fish.

Tyronebiggs

Debates: 2

Posts: 29

Tyronebiggs

11.02.2018 04:28PM

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@Greyparrot

That sounds pretty gay bro. I have no problem with you guys, Jesus accepts all of you into the kingdom if you ask for forgiveness and ask him into your life. You shouldn't be getting married though. You should fight your sinful urges and be with a woman instead of claiming not to need them.

Greyparrot

Debates: 4

Posts: 25,989

Greyparrot

11.02.2018 06:57PM

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@Tyronebiggs

It was a tribute to Gloria Steinem.

Tyronebiggs

Debates: 2

Posts: 29

Tyronebiggs

11.02.2018 07:17PM

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@Greyparrot

Good, for a second I thought you were gayparrot

Greyparrot

Debates: 4

Posts: 25,989

Greyparrot

11.02.2018 08:11PM

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@Tyronebiggs

cis bad

21 days later

Topic's author

Analgesic.Spectre

Debates: 1

Posts: 468

Analgesic.Spectre

11.24.2018 05:12AM

There isn't a reply worth responding to, lol.

#10

FaustianJustice

Debates: 0

Posts: 150

FaustianJustice

11.24.2018 05:53AM

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@Analgesic.Spectre

Okay, How to start.

1) NAWALT (not all women are like that)

The odds of this are pretty much confirmed, there are outliers to the stereotype.

To lend credence to the point, you need to say "enough women are like this..." which would really go miles to your observation.

2) Be a man

Whatever that means.

3) Work hard [for women]

Work hard, in general, or work smart in general. The nature of a capitalist society is you are working for some one else. Own the means of production, or choose whom shares the wealth of your ability.

4) Stop whining

Duh. If you have grievance, ground it in reality, demonstrate your issue.

RE the rest.... um... sure? Find me a random sampling of 50 men, I assure you, there will be some people you won't want to mate with.

Were I to supply you 50 women, do you have a preference, or do you have an order?

Topic's author

#11

Analgesic.Spectre

Debates: 1

Posts: 468

Analgesic.Spectre

11.24.2018 06:23AM

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@FaustianJustice

The odds of this are pretty much confirmed, there are outliers to the stereotype.

Literally, yes; however, the conversational function of NAWALT is a digression (in that, rather than speaking about a summary of women, the topic is shifted towards women who are outliers).

Conversation isn't singularly dimensional.

To lend credence to the point, you need to say "enough women are like this..." which would really go miles to your observation.

Again, literally, this is a better way of expressing the sentiment. I'm not adverse to your correction, either (I think it's great).

Whatever that means.

Precisely. Similar to the conception of racism, it is a nebulous term filled with emotional manipulation.

Work hard, in general, or work smart in general. The nature of a capitalist society is you are working for some one else. Own the means of production, or choose whom shares the wealth of your ability.

Is your wife your employer? I daresay my point has been missed.

Duh. If you have grievance, ground it in reality, demonstrate your issue.

I think the expression of "stop whining" hints at the sinister underlying psychological phenomenon of near-complete apathy of male emotions. Even when concerns are grounded in reality, the apathy persists (I've seen this happen dozens of times; I provided the workplace death statistics to support it, too).

Find me a random sampling of 50 men, I assure you, there will be some people you won't want to mate with.

Were I to supply you 50 women, do you have a preference, or do you have an order?

My point here didn't address mate selection. My point addressed the effects of sexual dimorphism on reactions to male suffering. Please read it again.

#12

FaustianJustice

Debates: 0

Posts: 150

FaustianJustice

11.24.2018 07:03AM

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@Analgesic.Spectre

Is your wife your employer? I daresay my point has been missed.

No, but we mutually enjoy the benefits of eachother's labors. Don't daresay that, I stand by my observation, your labors fruits are most recognized by some one downstream of your efforts.

My point here didn't address mate selection. My point addressed the effects of sexual dimorphism on reactions to male suffering. Please read it again.

I agree. Your point didn't address one of the most salient aspects of human sexuality: preference. Males have a preference. Females have a preference. The fifty male and one female vs fifty female and one male relation removed human preference. Is that something you care to address?

Topic's author

#13

Analgesic.Spectre

Debates: 1

Posts: 468

Analgesic.Spectre

11.24.2018 07:14AM

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@FaustianJustice

No, but we mutually enjoy the benefits of eachother's labors. Don't daresay that, I stand by my observation, your labors fruits are most recognized by some one downstream of your efforts.

Ah but the original, quoted retort to summarising women's behaviour was "work hard", with the implication that is was for women. Your conception here, that you *both* enjoy each other's labour (I don't think is accurate, but I won't digress), is not reflected in my OP's quoted retort. Moreover, my issue is that discussion of men's issues is derailed with redirection of focus (towards women).

I agree. Your point didn't address one of the most salient aspects of human sexuality: preference. Males have a preference. Females have a preference. The fifty male and one female vs fifty female and one male relation removed human preference. Is that something you care to address?

Demonstration of breeding capacity need not control for preference, barring that the 50 women and 1 man, and the 50 men and 1 woman, are not likely/certain to produce the same amount of offspring (which, prima facie, is absurd. Feel free to prove otherwise).

#14

FaustianJustice

Debates: 0

Posts: 150

FaustianJustice

11.24.2018 07:55AM

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@Analgesic.Spectre

Demonstration of breeding capacity need not control for preference, barring that the 50 women and 1 man, and the 50 men and 1 woman, are not likely/certain to produce the same amount of offspring (which, prima facie, is absurd. Feel free to prove otherwise).

I will appeal to common sense.

50 women do NOT want to breed with a male whom has Down's syndrome.

The tragic part is that 50 men MIGHT want to breed with a female whom has Down's syndrome.

Topic's author

#15

Analgesic.Spectre

Debates: 1

Posts: 468

Analgesic.Spectre

11.24.2018 08:08AM

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@FaustianJustice

I will appeal to common sense.

In other words: Circular reasoning.

50 women do NOT want to breed with a male whom has Down's syndrome.

How likely is it that a random man will have Down's syndrome, let alone the alpha male of a tribe?

You are clutching at straws in your (perhaps unintentional) attempt to miss the point.

The tragic part is that 50 men MIGHT want to breed with a female whom has Down's syndrome.

Although we're digressing here, it's not tragic. It's simply sexual dimorphism in action. Mass insemination is an effective male breeding strategy, even at the expense of a higher infant mortality rate.