Pennsylvania suppressin mah vote yo!
Penn declares convenience voting unconstitutional.
Posts
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31
Democratic idealogues on the PA Supreme Court just gonna reverse it as usual.
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@ILikePie5
I just wanna vote through smoke signals and fart aromas. Why am i so oppressed?
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@Greyparrot
:(
As ever, Greyparrot is lying when he tags this forum as BIDEN, CORRUPTION, DNC. That's that Orwellian doublespeak that the Republican Party has lapsed into; forgetting that a Republican Majority State Senate wrote this bill in 2019 correctly believing that it would result in the most open and secure election in PA.'s history. Republicans also correctly believed that voting by mail would have likely given the Republicans a slight advantage had not the Republican President decided that he could suppress the Democratic vote by openly calling mail-ballots fraudulent. That is, Pennsylvania's Republican Party mostly believed one thing two years and now they all believe the exact opposite thing is true because it advantaged a single man, because they must. They are now filing court cases against their own law-making of just two years ago, tearing downs laws they correctly believed to be to Republican's long-term advantage, calling themselves & the laws they made "unconstitutional" in public only and exactly because one man tells them to.
doublethink.
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@ILikePie5
Democratic idealogues on the PA Supreme Court just gonna reverse it as usual.
I hope so. I just wanna be able to vote as easily as possible even if it gets misinterpreted.
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@oromagi
It's entirely different thing to allow mail in voting, and quite another to just haphazardly mail ballots to every registered voter. Generally speaking you only want people who are going to spend a significant amount of time studying policies and political philosophy to vote.
Don't think I don't notice either that my friend who is a registered Democrat got 4 ballots mailed to him, while I had one ballot mailed to me. We know what's going on
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@Wylted
-->@oromagiIt's entirely different thing to allow mail in voting, and quite another to just haphazardly mail ballots to every registered voter.
What's haphazard about it? That's how the USFG does the census, and collects taxes, and distributes social security and other funds. Benjamin Franklin recognized the capacity to mail every citizen as essential to democracy. That's why Trump tried so hard to break the Post Office as a function of the Federal Govt. in the Autumn of 2020. Filling out a ballot in the privacy of your own home is far less subject to intimidation and voter fraud and computer tracking of mailed ballots is far more secure than hundreds of polling booths with various standards and ethical limits.
Generally speaking you only want people who are going to spend a significant amount of time studying policies and political philosophy to vote.
We can agree that education-wise, you are insufficiently qualified to vote.
Don't think I don't notice either that my friend who is a registered Democrat got 4 ballots mailed to him, while I had one ballot mailed to me. We know what's going on
I'll assume this is just more bullshit from the Brown Baron of Bullshit.
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@Wylted
Filling out a ballot in the privacy of your own home is far less subject to intimidation and voter fraud and computer tracking of mailed ballots is far more secure than hundreds of polling booths with various standards and ethical limits.
Lol the lies about this statement are so blatant.
Canvassers are literally going door to door handing people the ballots they took (stole?) out of their mailbox and handing the ballots to them at their door asking them to fill them out. That's clearly pressure and a form of intimidation. People have a right to ignore mail in ballots without harassment at their own homes.
No city council selected these people to handle legal documents and harvest ballots.
Canvassers are literally going door to door handing people ballots they took (stole?) out of their mailbox and handing the ballots to them at their door asking them to fill them out. That's clearly pressure and a form of intimidation. People have a right to ignore mail in ballots without harassment at their own homes
While similar behavior has been regularly documented in Trump voters, I’m not aware of any verified cases of Pro-Biden intimidation. That’s entirely up to you to credibly source.
No city council selected these people to handle legal documents and harvest ballots.
No….More like State election officials do the heavy lifting, constitutionally speaking, in a National Election Secretaries of State and county clerks, etc. What legal documents are you talking about? Are you talking about some city election?
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@Wylted
We know what's going on
Yep
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@Greyparrot
So, you put a cross in a box.
But deliberately in the adjacent box,
As an expression of the duality,
Of quantum mechanical disparity.
And the fundamental laws,
Of indeterminate clarity.
And the bastards, misinterpret it,
By making things,
Conveniently inconvenient.
I declare Mark Penn,
An utterly appropriate name.
Not American. Why must all the votes occur during the same day? Why is it not a specified range, for example, 3 days?
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@oromagi
Filling out a ballot in the privacy of your own home is far less subject to intimidation and voter fraud and computer tracking of mailed ballots is far more secure than hundreds of polling booths with various standards and ethical limits.
Wrong, elderly people tend to vote republican at a higher rate. Their children who they depend on to help them vote and for other tasks are more likely to vote Democrat. It is very easy for their grandchildren just to fill out their stuff and turn it in for them. There is more intimidation in private residences than at polling stations.
Generally speaking you only want people who are going to spend a significant amount of time studying policies and political philosophy to vote.
We can agree that education-wise, you are insufficiently qualified to vote.
You have no clue how much time I have studied these things, idiot. I think it's very telling you want people who have no clue about politics and are indifferent to have the voting process made easier for them by mailing them unsolicited ballots.
Why do you want indifferent, uneducated idiots more access to ballots? Is it coincidentally because they vote for leftist politicians and policies that want to abolish the police and other things you agree with?
Don't think I don't notice either that my friend who is a registered Democrat got 4 ballots mailed to him, while I had one ballot mailed to me. We know what's going on
I'll assume this is just more bullshit from the Brown Baron of Bullshit.
BE honest. How many ballots came in your mail box?
My friend showed me 4 copies of his and he is a registered Democrat. If you have nothing to hide, be honest about how many you had sent to you.
While similar behavior has been regularly documented in Trump voters, I’m not aware of any verified cases of Pro-Biden intimidation. That’s entirely up to you to credibly source.
Wow, if you truly wanted fair and democratic elections, you would refuse to engage in lies like this. The whole claim by you that only Trump voters cheat and therefore we should not have election security, is retarded.
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@Intelligence_06
It is a range of days. They have early voting. They focus on a single day where most votes take place
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@Wylted
-->@oromagi
elderly people tend to vote republican at a higher rate.
This was one of the main reasons PA Republicans voted for mail-in voting. Ask the elderly whether they'd rather vote by mail or stand in line, especially post COVID. Ask the experts whether the elderly vote more with mail-in than without mail-in. If you subtract Trump from the equation, mail-in voting is normally expected to slightly advantage Republicans.
Their children who they depend on to help them vote and for other tasks are more likely to vote Democrat. It is very easy for their grandchildren just to fill out their stuff and turn it in for them. There is more intimidation in private residences than at polling stations.
Democratic voters love and respect their parents. My father voted Republican his whole life (except for Trump, of course), it would never have occurred to me to alter his mind or change his vote, we both would have seen that as quite un-American. Seems like you're pulling from personal experience here and not relying on any actual reporting or evidence.
You have no clue how much time I have studied these things, idiot.
I won't argue how much time you've spent trying but we've certainly we've established that you lack 7th grade Social Studies- the founding principles of America, the principles of US citizenship, checks and balances, what is a Democracy, etc. You don't know what Liberalism or Conservatism mean. We established again just yesterday that you don't know what a Libertarian is.
Why do you want indifferent, uneducated idiots more access to ballots?
Because as an American I hold that all citizens possess an equal right to enfranchisement. Education is another reason Republicans should want more uneducated voters- there is a direct correlation between higher levels of education and voting for Democrats.
Is it coincidentally because they vote for leftist politicians and policies that want to abolish the police and other things you agree with?
When you study more about American politics, you soon learn this is the opposite of true.
PEW RESEARCH:
"Highly educated adults – particularly those who have attended graduate school – are far more likely than those with less education to take predominantly liberal positions across a range of political values. And these differences have increased over the past two decades.
More than half of those with postgraduate experience (54%) have either consistently liberal political values (31%) or mostly liberal values (23%), based on an analysis of their opinions about the role and performance of government, social issues, the environment and other topics. Fewer than half as many postgrads – roughly 12% of the public in 2015– have either consistently conservative (10%) or mostly conservative (14%) values. About one-in-five (22%) express a mix of liberal and conservative opinions."
It's just a simple fact that the more information one has the more liberal one becomes. My argument is that by cutting out the less educated, Republicans are working against their own long-term interest in pursuit of Trump's short-term interest. That's bad strategy.
BE honest. How many ballots came in your mail box?
One.
My friend showed me 4 copies of his and he is a registered Democrat. If you have nothing to hide, be honest about how many you had sent to you.
Right. We also know you live in a Republican state. So these are Republican election officials handing all these extra copies to a Democrat? Why? Were the name, address, and barcodes all the same? If so, how would your friend have used these ballots to Democrats advantage? Did you report this mistake to authorities? Why not? I don't think you've even thought through the lie you are fabricating here. I'm not sure I even believe the part where you have a friend.
The whole claim by you that only Trump voters cheat and therefore we should not have election security, is retarded.
Trump voters definitely cheat and therefore we should have the most open and secure elections possible. If you want to say that Biden voters cheat then you are going to have to come up with some evidence. If you track the court cases related to the 2020 election every conviction that I've found is Pro-Trump or unknown. There's a famous case in my town where a man killed his wife and sent in her ballot for Trump. I can find plenty of stories of pro-TRUMP fraud nationwide and some where the voter preference is unknown but I just can't find any similar cases that finger any Biden voters. I can find Democrats cheating in local elections but none specific to Biden. I'm not saying they don't exist I'm just saying I can't find any.
In the case of the wife-murdering Trump voter, the fraudulent ballot was quickly detected and the vote never counted. The fraudulent ballot was used as evidence in the murderer's arrest. Voter fraud is far easier to detect in vote by mail elections than at ballot sites.
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@Wylted
only Trump voters cheat and therefore we should not have election security, is retarded.
The point is there is a limit to how easy you can make voting for people while keeping their vote secure, and what critics don't understand: it's not from the perspective of the vote counter but the vote caster that defines the level of vote security. Elites can scream all day long that the vote is secure, but the voters won't believe it if they can't see what happens to their ballot from start to finish. Most people in a democracy do not trust authority to do the right thing without public pressure.
Would you honestly feel like your vote was secure if you phoned in your vote and pressed a number on your phone?
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@oromagi
This was one of the main reasons PA Republicans voted for mail-in voting. Ask the elderly whether they'd rather vote by mail or stand in line, especially post COVID. Ask the experts whether the elderly vote more with mail-in than without mail-in. If you subtract Trump from the equation, mail-in voting is normally expected to slightly advantage Republicans
Mail I voting is fine. It always has been. I think you know the issue is sending unsolicited ballots
Democratic voters love and respect their parents. My father voted Republican his whole life (except for Trump, of course), it would never have occurred to me to alter his mind or change his vote, we both would have seen that as quite un-American. Seems like you're pulling from personal experience here and not relying on any actual reporting or evidence.
Yeah, let's just trust leftists who are on video attacking the elderly after the Trump victory in 2016, to have respect for them now LOL.
Because as an American I hold that all citizens possess an equal right to enfranchisement. Education is another reason Republicans should want more uneducated voters- there is a direct correlation between higher levels of education and voting for Democrats.
Yeah, welfare queens are the real educated ones. If you would lose by eliminating the ability of anybody with an IQ 120 or below from eligibility to vote, you should really reconsider if you are correct
It's just a simple fact that the more information one has the more liberal one becomes. My argument is that by cutting out the less educated, Republicans are working against their own long-term interest in pursuit of Trump's short-term interest. That's bad strategy.
You made a good argument for why there Is a lot of indoctrination in higher education, but my argument was about informed voters not educated voters.
Right. We also know you live in a Republican state. So these are Republican election officials handing all these extra copies to a Democrat? Why? Were the name, address, and barcodes all the same? If so, how would your friend have used these ballots to Democrats advantage? Did you report this mistake to authorities? Why not? I don't think you've even thought through the lie you are fabricating here. I'm not sure I even believe the part where you have a friend.
I think my friend through the extra copies away. Let's look at what this really means though. It is easy for things to get lost in the mail, so by mailing democrats extra copies it is not o ly insuring mail loss is less likely to occur but it is extra reminders for the to vote as well. This happened when I was in Ohio a purple state, but I was in Columbus so mostly democratic government close to me.
What the fuck would reporting it do? Should I also report to the North Korean government that they are corrupt and see them take action against themselves?
Trump voters definitely cheat and therefore we should have the most open and secure elections possible. If you want to say that Biden voters cheat then you are going to have to come up with some evidence. If you track the court cases related to the 2020 election every conviction that I've found is Pro-Trump or unknown.
If you really felt like Trump voters did the most cheating, why would you as a Democrat be opposed to election security? It seems like you realize the truth here and are arguing disingenuously
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@Greyparrot
How the system is now, vote fraud is not even detectable. I can find 1000 ways to game the system. When I voted in Maryland for example, they just asked for my address and name. I could have probably voted 10 times the day I did it
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@Wylted
Mail I voting is fine. It always has been. I think you know the issue is sending unsolicited ballots.
Actually, its the first time you brought it up. The law Pennsylvania Republican wrote in 2019 did not issue any unsolicited ballots so it doesn't seem relevant to this discussion. My point is that Republicans are declaring their own good work unconstitutional only because their autocratic leader commands it and at the long term disadvantage of Republicans in that state.
Yeah, let's just trust leftists who are on video attacking the elderly after the Trump victory in 2016, to have respect for them now LOL.
Oh, now you are moving on to 2016? I don't know what video you are talking about but I will accept this as your concession that you have no evidence of pro-Biden election fraud in the 2020 election.
Yeah, welfare queens are the real educated ones. If you would lose by eliminating the ability of anybody with an IQ 120 or below from eligibility to vote, you should really reconsider if you are correct
evidence?
my argument was about informed voters not educated voters.
evidence?
I think my friend through the extra copies away.
So your testimony is that even presented with the opportunity to cheat, the one Democrat you know voted honestly.
It is easy for things to get lost in the mail,
I had the ability to track my ballot by bar code- I was able to login and see that my ballot was properly counted- something I could not do at a polling station.
so by mailing democrats extra copies it is not only insuring mail loss is less likely to occur but it is extra reminders for the to vote as well. This happened when I was in Ohio a purple state, but I was in Columbus so mostly democratic government close to me.
Again, you don't even know the process. In Ohio, Republican State election officials were in charge of delivering and overseeing the 2020 ballot to Ohioans.
What was the motivation of these Republicans for giving Democrats the advantage?
What the fuck would reporting it do?
Got it. You claim you were a witness to election fraud but were too lazy to perform your basic civic obligations to document and discourage such fraud. Now a year later, you want us to believe you with no evidence. You want us to believe your are concerned about election fraud but also claim that you blew off your one chance to do something about it. I say if there's was any truth to your claim, you should have documented it and in the absence of any such documentation, I will continue to call bullshit to the entire claim.
If you really felt like Trump voters did the most cheating, why would you as a Democrat be opposed to election security?
I support excellent election security and applaud the 2019 Pennsylvania Republicans who worked successfully to improve the security of the 2020 election. All I'm saying is its too bad those same Republicans now lack the spine to defend their improved security measures against the self-interests of Dear Leader and are instead compelled now to publicly condemn themselves and their own proven good work as unconstitutional for the short-term benefit of one very orange potentate.
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@oromagi
So your testimony is that even presented with the opportunity to cheat, the one Democrat you know voted honestly
The point is he got multiples. I don't think anybody should get multiples.
Oh, now you are moving on to 2016? I don't know what video you are talking about but I will accept this as your concession that you have no evidence of pro-Biden election fraud in the 2020 election.
There is plenty. I know pulling up articles will just have you back pedal and say it is rare and didn't change the results. How the system is though I could have placed 10 votes if I wanted and there would be no way to prove it. One study on election fraud had people place illegal ballots but vote none of the above, and when the study findings were realized, participants were threatened with jail time. So it's a very difficult thing to prove. It's likely difficult to prove, for a specific reason.
evidence
A study showing people furthest on the right are smarter. https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/study-of-politics-and-analytical-thinking-puts-libertarians-on-top
It compares real conservatives like those who share the values of Ron Paul to be smarter than liberals.
Again, you don't even know the process. In Ohio, Republican State election officials were in charge of delivering and overseeing the 2020 ballot to Ohioans.What was the motivation of these Republicans for giving Democrats the advantage?
I don't know which individual put it in this person's mail box or addressed it to them.
Got it. You claim you were a witness to election fraud but were too lazy to perform your basic civic obligations to document and discourage such fraud. Now a year later, you want us to believe you with no evidence.
It's literally impossible for me to fight this. I am supposed to report to the government that the government did something unethical? How about you go file a report with the mafia that the mafia is participating in organized crime? Please use common sense.
Plus you need to look at all the evidence. Even one case such as that can be easily dismissed as a processing error. If I had run into legitimate fraud and they believed me. I would likely be murdered. The government has sent assassination teams to kill people before that threatened their corruption. For example Gaddafi.
Who is there to report government corruption to? The United Nations? What happened to Snowden? What happened to that Bradley chick/dude?
Oh and here is some documentation of people receiving multiple ballots. Likely registered democrats. So it has been recorded as happening that is just the first article n on Google, there are more https://abc7.com/newsom-recall-election-vote-multiple-ballots-more-than-one-ballot/10996628/
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@oromagi
Here is a study mentioned here that is even better. Xonservatives on average beat out liberals by about 5 points. People even further right such as libertarians do even better https://reason.com/2014/06/13/are-conservatives-dumber-than-liberals/
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@Intelligence_06
Not American. Why must all the votes occur during the same day? Why is it not a specified range, for example, 3 days?
Why not 30 days? Why not a month? Why not a year? It’s called Election Day for a reason
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@Greyparrot
The database contains 1,300 instances of voter fraud going all the way back to 1982.
In a country of over 300 million.
Is this is what we’re supposed to be upending our election system over?
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@Wylted
Generally speaking you only want people who are going to spend a significant amount of time studying policies and political philosophy to vote.
Serious question…
Do you believe a company should be allowed to require its shareholders to pass a test before allowing them to vote on the board of directors election?
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@Double_R
Is this is what we’re supposed to be upending our election system over?
Why upend it to invite more fraud though? Especially when there's sketchy data on the success rates of catching fraud and convictions. Easy as possible shouldn't mean swiping left on your phone so that the chain of custody of your vote is absolutely non-existent.
The fact that there's almost no data on the success rates and the "gotaways" means someone has a vested interest right now in gaming the current system, so we don't have any room to make the future system less secure through more central planning incompetence under the lie that there are no downsides to making elections as easy as possible.
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@Greyparrot
Why upend it to invite more fraud though?
No one is talking about “inviting more fraud”, that’s the political right’s cartoonish characterization of it. But the reason to expand or at the very least protect the rights within the current system is because that is kind of what makes a democracy work.
The fact that there's almost no data on the success rates and the "gotaways" means someone has a vested interest right now in gaming the current system, so we don't have any room to make the future system less secure through more central planning incompetence under the lie that there are no downsides to making elections as easy as possible.
In other words, it’s all theoretical. Maybe some more people out there will try and cheat so let’s make sure we stop any possibility of that happening even if it means tens or even hundreds of thousands of Americans will get pushed out of the system. Because you know, values.
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@Double_R
Because you know, values.
Yeah, I value the chain of custody of my vote. Do you want to have the convenience of voting on your phone if it means you can't validate your vote anymore? Of course you would because you trust people ONLY when they have power. That's how nations fall.