An idea that appeals to both parties

Author: TheUnderdog

Posts

Total: 16
Topic's author
#1
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
Republicans: We want to deport the undocumented.  They are taking our jobs.  The democrats are unamerican because they aren't putting Americans first.

Democrats: We don't want to deport the undocumented.  They are improving our country.  The republicans are being racist because the Latin Americans are often brown people.

Republicans: Clearly we disagree on this issue, so I present a compromise.  How about lets send all the undocumented immigrants and their families to your counties?  If they improve America, then your counties would benefit from this.  If they harm America, our counties won't be effected.

Democrats: That is a terrible idea!  You can't just dump migrants into our counties.  That would destroy our cities.

Republicans: But you just said they would be beneficial.  Lets send all peaceful undocumented immigrants and their families to your counties.

Democrats: No!  I only don't want the undocumented in MY county.  I want them in yours though.

Me: If you want America to not deport the peaceful undocumented immigrants, why not let them and their families come to your county?  I live in a blue county; I want more undocumented immigrants here as long as we don't give them government assistance and as long as my state replaces the income tax with a sales tax and a capitol gains tax (so they end up paying the state's bills since they would be paying taxes).  But these left wing politicians don't want that.  They just want the undocumented in red states.  My guess is they are trying to flip those states blue.


#2
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
I am disconnected on American issues for many months, however, I do know that black immigrants used to hoard Guangzhou and now the Chinese in vicinity are inclined to hate them not because they are racist, but because the African immigrants cause troubles.

Well, I might not be qualified enough to speak on this issue, but illegal immigrants ought to be deported, because they are illegal. If they actually help the nation, just loosen the law.
Topic's author
#3
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Intelligence_06
however, I do know that black immigrants used to hoard Guangzhou and now the Chinese in vicinity are inclined to hate them not because they are racist, but because the African immigrants cause troubles.
What does it mean to, "hoard Guangzhou"?

Well, I might not be qualified enough to speak on this issue, but illegal immigrants ought to be deported, because they are illegal. If they actually help the nation, just loosen the law.
The blue counties disagree.  Ron DeSantis and Trump both advocate for sending all undocumented immigrants and their families to blue places.  Counties should decide their own immigration policies under the 10th amendment.  If you are living in a blue county and you don't like the undocumented strongly, move to a red county.  If you live in a red county and you want more undocumented immigrants because you think it's good for the country and you really want to have more of it, move to a blue county.  The 10th amendment allows for places to have different policies while being in the same country and people who strongly disagree with certain laws can move to a state more to their liking.
#4
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
What does it mean to, "hoard Guangzhou"?
Many illegal immigrants lived in Guangzhou back then, and they cause problems. They stole from shops and caused damages. The locals disliked them and wished them away. Most of the people here do not hate black people. They are OK with people such as Nelson Mandala and such. They just hate when illegal immigrants unnecessarily cause damage, which is probably why they are illegal immigrants.

If you are living in a blue county and you don't like the undocumented strongly, move to a red county.  If you live in a red county and you want more undocumented immigrants because you think it's good for the country and you really want to have more of it, move to a blue county.
Well, why are they undocumented yet still here in the first place? I may be a newbie as to the American Legal system, but if the counties are free to choose which side to take, then why is it not that blue counties have the service to register and recognize these people, while the red ones do not provide such services?

Topic's author
#5
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Intelligence_06
They stole from shops and caused damages. The locals disliked them and wished them away.
If they steal from shops, you punish the INDIVIDUAL for theft.  Not every undocumented African stole from shops.  Just like some men commit rape, but if a man commits rape, you punish just the man that did rape, not every man.  If an undocumented immigrant steal from a shop, you punish the individual that stole, you don't punish every undocumented immigrant.

but if the counties are free to choose which side to take, then why is it not that blue counties have the service to register and recognize these people, while the red ones do not provide such services?
The blue counties think that the undocumented are worth having in their counties because they think they are extra taxpayers.  The red counties disagree because of the fear of crime and job displacement.  It therefore makes sense to let each county experiment with what works best for them.
#6
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
Republicans: We want to deport the undocumented.  They are taking our jobs. 

Democrats:  That problem is easily and cheaply solved.  Simply start locking up illegal employers as the source of the problem.  Lock up a few illegal employers (Trump is the most famous scoflaw- the NY Times has documented that he harbored many undocumented workers at his golf clubs every year of his presidency)  and the illegal employers will stop employing the undocumented.  As soon as the (mostly Republican-  meat packers, agricultural laborers, factory workers, miners) money dries up, the undocumented workers will have no reason to migrate to the US.  

Republicans:    .....um.....Let's build a wall!

#7
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
They just want people on the voter rolls that can't remember how bad things get when Democrats have absolute power.
#8
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,675
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
My guess is they are trying to flip those states blue.

You might be on to something there...
#9
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,169
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Greyparrot
#10
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ILikePie5
Ahh my dream job.
#11
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,169
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Greyparrot
Funniest interview I’ve seen in a while lmfaooo
Topic's author
#12
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@oromagi
The democrats want the undocumented here.  This means one of the 3 things must happen:

1) The undocumented get jobs.
2) The undocumented live off the government.
3) The undocumented live off a consenting charity.

#3 is unreliable as private charities might run out of funds.  You claim dems don't want #1.  This leads to the only option that democrats would have to support (#2).  I don't want the undocumented living off the government and hopefully neither do the dems.
#13
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@TheUnderdog
Democrats: No!  I only don't want the undocumented in MY county.  I want them in yours though.
Is this supposed to be satire or do you actually believe your own caricatures?

The left wing resistance to deportation is mostly about empathy for people who have built a life for themselves being torn apart from it. You can rationalize it all day long, that doesn’t change the pain it causes.

The rise is left wing passion for this topic is not out of no where, it’s a reaction to the right wing’s increase of bigotry and racism being not only tolerated but featured amongst party and group affiliated leaders.

The left wing’s (hypothetical) reaction to this idea is not about what the desires are regarding undocumented immigrants, it’s a reaction to the fact that this idea is just plain stupid. You don’t pick up groups of people and dump them in US cities or other areas in the US. Our politics may be intensely divided, that doesn’t mean we literally divide the country.
#14
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
The democrats want the undocumented here.
That's false. Democrats believe in paying employees a high minimum wage so, unlike Republicans, we have no use for undocumented labor to illegally underpay.  As Donald Trump proves every day, demand for undocumented labor comes overwhelmingly from industries famously dominated by Republicans- mining, agriculture, meat packers, etc.  As soon as Republicans like Trump stop hiring illegal labor, the undocumented will stop coming to America.

Democrats do demand that the undocumented peoples that are here be treated with basic Christian values- food, shelter, the fundamental human rights on which our nation is founded, etc.

But no, you are entirely wrong to think that Democrats want undocumented immigrants.  We want to increase legal immigration but that's documented immigration.  The problem of undocumented immigration is almost entirely in the hands of Republican Fatcats like Trump to resolve.
Topic's author
#15
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Double_R
The left wing resistance to deportation is mostly about empathy for people who have built a life for themselves being torn apart from it.
So if the undocumented built a life for themselves in America, they and their family can just go to a blue county.

You can rationalize it all day long, that doesn’t change the pain it causes.
If I cared about other people's pain in the SLIGHTEST, I would sponsor children in Africa who are in much more pain than most undocumented people.  But since most of society isn't willing to sacrifice for others, they don't care about the pain undocumented people endure.

The rise is left wing passion for this topic is not out of no where, it’s a reaction to the right wing’s increase of bigotry and racism being not only tolerated but featured amongst party and group affiliated leaders.
The 10th amendment solution of sending the undocumented to blue states isn't bigotry.  If your definition of bigotry is "not wanting the undocumented in your town", then the left is being bigoted because they refuse to accept undocumented immigrants from red counties in their town.

You don’t pick up groups of people and dump them in US cities or other areas in the US. Our politics may be intensely divided, that doesn’t mean we literally divide the country.
The country will be less divided if this happens; both the "pro undocumented, diversity is a strength, 3rd world immigrants make America great" camp and the, "Build a wall, secure our southern border.  These foreigners are taking our jobs" camp are happy because the undocumented and their families go where they are wanted in the US.

Most undocumented immigrants in the US live in blue counties, so this is a solution that can work for everybody.
Topic's author
#16
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@oromagi
That's false. Democrats believe in paying employees a high minimum wage so, unlike Republicans, we have no use for undocumented labor to illegally underpay.  As Donald Trump proves every day, demand for undocumented labor comes overwhelmingly from industries famously dominated by Republicans- mining, agriculture, meat packers, etc.  As soon as Republicans like Trump stop hiring illegal labor, the undocumented will stop coming to America.
Most democrats don't want to deport the undocumented because they claim, "No human is illegal".

Democrats do demand that the undocumented peoples that are here be treated with basic Christian values- food, shelter, the fundamental human rights on which our nation is founded, etc.
America is not a theocracy, so what the bible says on any political issue (like helping the poor with federal funds) is irrelevant.  I also make this argument about abortion, even if I were pro life (I don't care what happens to Roe V Wade).

If you want the undocumented to get free shit from the government, take care of them YOURSELF.  Your free to adopt some random undocumented person from El Salvador and give him, "food, shelter, the fundamental human rights".  America should not give free shit to foreigners (that includes Israel).  America first.

But no, you are entirely wrong to think that Democrats want undocumented immigrants.
Your logic: I don't want the undocumented in America, but if they come to America, I want to give them free stuff.  

Me: If you give the undocumented free stuff to be here, they will come here.

I just don't care if they are here as long as all government programs that they receive are 100% eliminated (and as someone who lives in a blue county, if these were the terms that they came here under, I don't mind them being in my town).  No free shit to foreigners.  Taxation is theft and all charity (from healthcare to medicaid) should be paid by consenting entities.  If you want more medicaid going to the poor, donate to organizations that give free healthcare to the poor.  If you want more housing for the homeless, adopt a homeless person.  All charity should be done at an INDIVIDUAL level instead of the government level because the individual consents, the government does not.