Democratic Party Incompetence

Author: Double_R

Posts

Total: 28
Topic's author
#1
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
Something I’ve heard from all ends of the political spectrum but especially on the left is that the Democratic Party is incompetent. This claim is normally made in comparison to what republicans have been able to accomplish despite the fact that the majority of the public is with the democrats on most issues.

I’ve normally pushed back on this claim. The way I see it, the democratic base is far more diverse in their political ideology than the republican base, so getting everyone to fight together is not an equal task on both sides.

But this year however, I’m seeing things differently.  The republican playbook is simple: characterize and demonize. So every bill the democrats put forward is characterized as some government takeover of something and democrats are always this nefarious group trying to control everyone’s lives. It’s predictable and tiresome.

But democrats play right into this. Take voting rights for example, nearly everything in these bills has huge national support when broken down individually. But right now democrats are trying to fix everything in large comprehensive bills giving republicans the perfect opportunity to find something, anything within the bill they can point to in order to sound reasonable for voting against it. Why? Why not break up these bills into individual parts and force everyone to go on record?

It’s easy to claim you’re against a federal takeover of elections, not so easy to argue in favor of gerrymandering. It’s easy to say you’re against spending trillions of dollars we don’t have, not so easy to argue against childcare.

So are they incompetent here, or is it just me?
#2
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
If the policies were actually popular, like you claim. Why would they hide them in large bills to start with?

The democratic party is not a big tent. I'll list some policies below that every single liberal will agree with.

Liberals are pro

Abortion- killing babies

Raising the minimum wage so black unemployment levels go up

Legalize the ability to use race in determining who to hire, so long as they are non white

End the death penalty, which is the only way we even are able to close a lot of cases, meaning more murderers will be on the streets. 

Give more money to public schools because more money is always the solution, not better policies. For example the undeniable truth that private schools operate on less money and provide a better education.

Gun laws. We should make guns illegal so that way women are more vulnerable to rape when going on a jog and people are left defenseless against stronger attackers. 

More welfare- it has been proven to incentivize single motherhood and destroy the family unit which makes society worse, but they are brain dead so their thought process is as simple as "derp, money make problem go away" 
#3
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@Double_R
It’s just a lot easier to be the opposition than it is to govern, and really isn’t more complicated than that. There are some incompetent moves to be sure (Schumer forcing his members up for election to take a tough vote over a bill that’s dead on arrival, Republicans trying to repeal Obamacare without a plan.) But for the most part it just comes down to if you’re in power you have to manage your coalition, make compromises, take responsibility for stuff that’s happening, and if you’re out of power you can just say no. Ultimately politicians are very skilled at getting re elected and not that talented at much else 
#4
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,169
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Double_R
So are they incompetent here, or is it just me?
Both parties are because they primarily consider their interests as politicians before those of the people. Not all do but a large portion do.

I may disagree with Bernie on everything, but he has been consistent in his support for policies because he genuinely believes it helps the people. Schumer on the other hand knowingly tries to pass provisions that voters in his own state rejected.
#5
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 3,362
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Double_R
Impression I've had of late, is that regardless of their competence,
'Certainly for Biden, 'maybe for Democrats,
More effort needs be given explaining what they are doing, have done, are working towards.
In 'more than vague statements.

Something I often think on that I saw in job,
Is people can 'easily not appreciate your work, if they don't 'see it or 'you.
Even if work is done, or you are working hard.
Coworker worked 'just as hard as me, but did so quietly, unobtrusive, people thought he wasn't a good worker, but he was.
Appearance is reality, bah.

Though, even all this said,
Doesn't mean I like or dislike Biden, and Democrats, 'work.
Topic's author
#6
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Wylted
Liberals are pro

Abortion- killing babies
49% identify as pro life vs 47% Pro choice

Raising the minimum wage so black unemployment levels go up
62% favor of raising the minimum wage

Legalize the ability to use race in determining who to hire, so long as they are non white
61% favor affirmative action

End the death penalty, which is the only way we even are able to close a lot of cases, meaning more murderers will be on the streets.
54% favor the Death penalty. I will just point out that this is down from an 80/16 split 25 years ago so the country is clearly moving in the democrats direction.


Give more money to public schools because more money is always the solution, not better policies.
60% favor raising education funding

Gun laws.
52% say gun laws should be more strict

More welfare
43% favor more government spending, 31% say current spending is just about right, 26% say less spending.

If the policies were actually popular, like you claim. Why would they hide them in large bills to start with?
They are popular, and that’s my point.
#7
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@Double_R
I'm talking about the policies in these bills that are hiding. The ones I mentioned were to show that democrats are not a big tent party. If you removed Republicans from the government, we would look like Venezuela within 3 weeks
#8
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
If you guys ever want to know if a Democrat supports something, look at the nazi party platform.

For example do democrats believe in murdering innocent humans, for example abortion.

Yes . Nazis killed innocent humans.

Do democrats believe in gun control. Let's look at the nazi party, yes they confiscated guns.

Do democrats believe in economic interventionism.  Oh shit nazis were economic interventionists.  

Do democrats believe in alternative energy. Shit nazis used alternative energy methods when the allies cut off sources of oil. 


#9
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,087
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Wylted
The U.S.A. was founded on killing innocent people.

The U.S.A has been exporting ideological murder abroad for years. 

Republican and Democrat alike.

What's new Wylted?


And was that,

Shit Nazi's,

Or,

Shit!

Nazi's.

Or were they using shit for fuel.

I think that the Shit Nazi's thing,

Was overegging the custard somewhat.
#10
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@zedvictor4
Are you new to English? 
#11
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,087
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Wylted
Not as new as you.

Though I blame technology.
#12
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@zedvictor4
You seem confused that English speakers often say shit, before a phrase meant to feign disbelief of the fact they are presenting. 

This is an English speaking site. Judging by your posts you have a lot of comprehension issues. I initially thought they were due to low IQ, but this makes me realize it may be a language barrier. 

Non native English speakers other than the site owner, really are not welcome here. 
#13
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Wylted
Non native English speakers other than the site owner, really are not welcome here. 

Well I am sure that there is an - ism - or an - ist there somewhere, Wylted. Isn't this a "community" forum?
Topic's author
#14
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Wylted
I'm talking about the policies in these bills that are hiding.
No, you were clearly making the point that democrats don’t support popular policies which I showed was objectively wrong

If you guys ever want to know if a Democrat supports something, look at the nazi party platform.

For example do democrats believe in murdering innocent humans, for example abortion.

Yes . Nazis killed innocent humans.

Do democrats believe in gun control. Let's look at the nazi party, yes they confiscated guns.

Do democrats believe in economic interventionism.  Oh shit nazis were economic interventionists.  

Do democrats believe in alternative energy. Shit nazis used alternative energy methods when the allies cut off sources of oil. 
Truly one of the dumbest arguments I’ve ever heard you make. This is like arguing that Jeffery Dahmer and the Pope should be placed in the same light because they both eat meat.
#15
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,087
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Wylted
LOL.
#16
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
Paul Begala said there's no problem with Democrat leadership. The problem is with Democrat followers.


Agree?
Topic's author
#17
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
No, I gave you my thoughts in this in the OP. Did you read it? Do you have any serious commentary on it?
#18
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
Begala's Comment is the mindset of DC. So it really doesn't matter what you or I think. To them, WE are the problem. Biden clearly has said the same thing in every presser that Begala said. That he won't change policies, and his underlings need to sell them better or just follow better.

If you don't agree with Begala, you can't be a Democrat anymore. Begala and the rest of his Elite DC crew will make sure of it.

What you think about DC competency or even central planning efficiency in general is totally irrelevant. 
Topic's author
#19
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
So no, nothing serious to contribute. Got it.
#20
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
What do you want me to say? Lie to you and say "Oh the Democrat leaders screwed up and they will fix it?"

You know that's not going to happen in DC regardless of how I word the idea.
Exactly what kind of lie are you fishing for in this thread?

You sound like a guy who just caught his girl cheating on him and you want to rationalize it out instead of heading to the door.
And that is EXACTLY why DC is full of people just like Begala and will  not change any time soon. Power derived from blind faith and devotion to the government can only yield the most corrupt and incompetent leaders possible. When Begala and Biden say it's a follower problem, it's exactly like a evangelical preacher shaming his congregation into submission. The Democrat party has truly evolved into a religion from the top down. With believers and non-believers splitting the country in half.
Topic's author
#21
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
What do you want me to say? Lie to you and say "Oh the Democrat leaders screwed up and they will fix it?"
No, I was looking for your assessment of the points I made in the OP. I wrote a whole post criticizing their strategy and provided a strategy I think makes far more sense politically, your response to tell me about some guy who called the democratic base followers. That’s not relevant.

And that is EXACTLY why DC is full of people just like Begala and will  not change any time soon. Power derived from blind faith and devotion to the government can only yield the most corrupt and incompetent leaders possible.
Nothing I’ve said remotely supports your talking points, in fact the entire point was how the democrats are allowing republicans to take their would-be voters with stupidity and offered a way to counteract that. It’s literally the opposite of what you are claiming this is. You are having a whole conversation with yourself.

The Democrat party has truly evolved into a religion from the top down. With believers and non-believers splitting the country in half.
Projection at its finest. Remind me what the Republican Party platform says?
#22
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
 I wrote a whole post criticizing their strategy and provided a strategy I think makes far more sense politically.
And what is the whole point of that when the president you elected says you're on the side of Bull Connor for even suggesting a different strategy?

Tell me honestly if you had the opportunity to say this in front of Biden that you don't expect a full tirade of angry insults. You can't be this deluded.

I know you are frustrated. Most of the country is.

Projection at its finest. Remind me what the Republican Party platform says?
Probably not blaming the voters for DC incompetency. Wild guess.
Topic's author
#23
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
And what is the whole point of that when the president you elected says you're on the side of Bull Connor for even suggesting a different strategy?
The point is that this is a debate site, so when someone says “here is my opinion” the idea is to respond by agreeing or disagreeing and explain why, not to change the subject to something you think is more important.

Remind me what the Republican Party platform says?
Probably not blaming the voters for DC incompetency. Wild guess.
Actually is says everything you need to know about which party follows its leader as if it were a religion. And it’s not the one you claimed.
#24
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
And it’s not the one you claimed.

So you are under the delusion that Biden wouldn't yell insults at you for suggesting what you said in the OP. 

Fair enough.
#25
ResurgetExFavilla
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 627
3
2
7
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
ResurgetExFavilla
3
2
7
-->
@Double_R
I don't think it's incompetence, I think it's how the system works. It would be so simple to just pass the popular items in standalone bills, but they don't. That's because their aim isn't to pass popular items, its to pass the unpopular items which their donors direct them to pass. When the school nurse is giving you food with a pill inside, she's not trying to feed you, she's trying to get you to swallow the pill. When politicians pass an enormous bill with popular provisions sprinkled into it, they're trying to use the popular (good for normal people) provisions as an excuse to jam through things which aren't good for normal people. It's like the school nurse, only she's trying to poison you. This isn't just a Democrat thing either, it's both parties -- you just see it more from the party that's in power. And it's not just the 'bad' Democrats either, the so-called progressives refused to force a vote on Medicare for All despite proposing to do just that while running, because they didn't want to rock the boat and lose their committee assignments.

Just look at the recent BBB bill that failed. Whenever they stripped something out of it or watered something down during negotiations, it was a popular provision that helped normal people -- paid family leave, vision and dental, free community college, allowing medicare to negotiate drug prices. How can they pretend to care about normal people? I used to be a both-parties populist, but the moment I gave up on the Democrats for good was when they were negotiating over the money for Trump's wall. It was a drop in the bucket when looking at a federal budget - only a few billion. The Democrats could have extracted 100 times that in programs to help people if they were just willing to give Trump his wall. But they steadfastly refused to budge even an inch, and that's when I realized that all their talk about helping people is complete bullshit. It's about serving their donors, that's why not a single one would take a deal that was weighted heavily in their constituents' favor -- denying Trump a symbolic victory was more important to them. Republicans are at least honest about serving the middle and upper-middle classes and aren't completely insane on cultural issues -- what reason do I possibly have to vote for a Democratic part who wouldn't give Trump his cheap-ass wall in order to help the poor by a disproportionately larger amount?
Topic's author
#26
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
It would be so simple to just pass the popular items in standalone bills, but they don't. That's because their aim isn't to pass popular items, its to pass the unpopular items which their donors direct them to pass.
I get this in theory, but it doesn’t address my issue here. Politicians care about their own political careers, and above all else. The only reason politicians are subservient to their donors is because they need them to keep their seats. But passing popular agenda items is every bit as valuable and I would argue more valuable to that end. For the democrats being in the situation they are, there’s no way for them to hold onto control if they don’t give voters something to show why they should be in power, so this failure in particular is their political death sentence. No donor can fix that, so why prioritize them?

and that's when I realized that all their talk about helping people is complete bullshit. It's about serving their donors, that's why not a single one would take a deal that was weighted heavily in their constituents' favor -- denying Trump a symbolic victory was more important to them
This doesn’t make any sense. You’re claiming that all democrats care about is appeasing their donors, yet your example is of them not extracting what they could from republicans all for the symbolic victory of denying funding for the wall. What use do the democratic donors have with a symbolic victory? If they were all about their donors wouldn’t this have been a perfect opportunity to appease them?

Republicans are at least honest about serving the middle and upper-middle classes
What policy have republicans championed to help the middle class?
#27
ResurgetExFavilla
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 627
3
2
7
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
ResurgetExFavilla
3
2
7
-->
@Double_R
It would be so simple to just pass the popular items in standalone bills, but they don't. That's because their aim isn't to pass popular items, its to pass the unpopular items which their donors direct them to pass.
I get this in theory, but it doesn’t address my issue here. Politicians care about their own political careers, and above all else. The only reason politicians are subservient to their donors is because they need them to keep their seats. But passing popular agenda items is every bit as valuable and I would argue more valuable to that end. For the democrats being in the situation they are, there’s no way for them to hold onto control if they don’t give voters something to show why they should be in power, so this failure in particular is their political death sentence. No donor can fix that, so why prioritize them?
I think that on the right this is true because there's a large cohort of right wing voters who will not vote 'R' if they don't get fed red meat. There is no longer any sizeable cohort like this on the left - in fact, there's a whole extensive sheepdoging apparatus that fires up every election cycle, convinces them that the alternative is 'literally hitler', and gets them to 'vote blue no matter who'. If the party knows that you'll never have the balls to take your vote and go home, they'll take your vote for granted. That's what happened to the left.

When the GOP ran McCain, whom I despised, I voted for Obama. When they ran Romney, whom I didn't really like, I stayed home. When they ran Trump, I voted for him. There are very few people on the left who are willing to do this, and it's the root of voter power in a democracy. You have to put your vote on the market if you want politicians to give you something for it. What's going to happen if the democrats break literally all their election promises? Will these 'socialists' actually stay home? They sure as hell won't vote Republican. My bet is that they will pull the lever for a half-embalmed Biden and then whine about it for four more years. The Democrats know this, and so studiously ignore their party's left wing on any economic issues which their donors would frown upon, only pursuing the cultural issues that Citibank has no problem with.

and that's when I realized that all their talk about helping people is complete bullshit. It's about serving their donors, that's why not a single one would take a deal that was weighted heavily in their constituents' favor -- denying Trump a symbolic victory was more important to them
This doesn’t make any sense. You’re claiming that all democrats care about is appeasing their donors, yet your example is of them not extracting what they could from republicans all for the symbolic victory of denying funding for the wall. What use do the democratic donors have with a symbolic victory? If they were all about their donors wouldn’t this have been a perfect opportunity to appease them?
Maybe I wasn't as clear as I could have been. The donors by and large don't want border security or trade protectionism. So from a donor perspective refusing to compromise with Trump's agenda was exactly what they wanted. In this specific case, they could give Trump his wall in exchange for hugely disproportionate populist economic policies for their constituents, which they claim to care for above all else. It was eye opening for me -- the Dems are so slavishly committed to their donor class that they couldn't even let 10 billion slip through to Trump for border security even if it meant a huge windfall of funding for social programs.

Republicans are at least honest about serving the middle and upper-middle classes
What policy have republicans championed to help the middle class?
Tax breaks for small businesses - usually that's the lower cutoff point for who reaps the economic benefits of Republican tax plans. The one really big exception to this was capping SALT deductions - that's basically a tax rise on the rich. But I'm aware that this was driven by Trump and not the GOP in general and was an outlier as far as tax policy goes.
#28
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ILikePie5