Russia to invade the Ukraine

Author: Wylted

Posts

Total: 24
Topic's author
#1
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
Trump was considered a Russian puppet, but Russia is now going to expand under both Biden and Obama, while they wouldn't dare do the same with Bush or Trump. 

As much as I hate Neocons, at least Russia knows if they step out of line, they'll have drone strikes at Putins home. 

While pointing out that liberals are weak, Is a fun truism, in all seriousness. If Russia wants the Ukraine, it has zero affect on the United States and we shouldn't have Americans die to protect the Ukraine. 
#2
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,169
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
Wait I thought Trump was a Russian agent. Why didn’t Putin take the Ukraine under him?
Topic's author
#3
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
Just an example of liberal weakness from the article.

The U.S. and Russia held talks this month that failed to resolve the standoff between the two countries after Russia amassed more than 100,000 troops along the Ukrainian border. The U.S. has warned Russia of dire economic consequences should it invade Ukraine, including crippling economic sanctions.
“What Secretary Blinken is going to do is highlight very clearly that there's a diplomatic path forward,” Psaki said. “It is the choice of President Putin and the Russians to make whether they are going to suffer severe economic consequences or not.”

This is a simple solution. We shouldn't take it, but you put 100k US soldiers in the Ukraine, and you say, okay make a move. You can't stop an invasion by promising to slap a country on the wrist. 
Topic's author
#4
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@ILikePie5
Wait I thought Trump was a Russian agent. Why didn’t Putin take the Ukraine under him?
Exactly, you are about to see a lot of cognitive dissonance with the left, when this invasion happens and Russia liberates the Ukraine
#5
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Wylted
Liberates?
Topic's author
#6
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@RationalMadman
Freeing Ukrainian citizens from an American puppet government.  
#7
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ILikePie5
If you had a puppet in charge of a country, you wouldn't do an invasion under his rule during his first term (an invasion of a country that would make him look bad)... It actually does add up, also Covid ruined chances of genuine war towards the end.
#8
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Wylted
That's the genuine Ukrainian government...
Topic's author
#9
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@RationalMadman
If you had a puppet in charge of a country, you wouldn't do an invasion under his rule during his first term
You sure as hell wouldn't wait until he is out of office, so you face more resistance,  would you?
#10
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Wylted
Yes you would, since as you mentioned earlier, US has little reason to justify intervening too much without looking like the bad guy and therefore either Biden looks weak or looks internationally aggressive.
Topic's author
#11
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
They are legit a puppet government. If they step out of line and lose western support, we just allow an invasion, which likely means all their political leaders, will face the gallows
#12
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Wylted
If you mean they need to meet human rights criteria and such to remain under NATO protection (especially US protection) then yeah.
Topic's author
#13
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@RationalMadman
All of Europe wants USA to protect the Ukraine. The ukraine is a buffer zone between Europe and  Russia and they gain access to the sea and will control that and harm trade. Biden want loom aggressive. Liberals control the media and all European nations want him to be aggressive 
#14
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Wylted
You are contradicting yourself here but I refuse to let myself win only on count of that as I agree with your original self, not your future/present contradiction.

You originally said that Biden is looking weak af, which is right. The only other option for him is to look like a war hawk, which is the perfect lose-lose scenario that Russia is capitalising on.
Topic's author
#15
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@RationalMadman
If you mean they need to meet human rights criteria and such to remain under NATO protection (especially US protection) then yeah
I mean a U.S. president could tell them to manufacture criminal evidence a political rival was acting illegally, and they would have a hard time saying no, since the president is commander and chief of the military, and can insure any aggressive attempts by Russia go unanswered. 
Topic's author
#16
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@RationalMadman
You originally said that Biden is looking weak af, which is right. The only other option for him is to look like a war hawk, which is the perfect lose-lose scenario that Russia is capitalising on.
False dichotomy actually. Even without the massive media spin he would get, a person can legit be a tough on foreign policy, without being a war hawk or weak
#17
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Wylted
Trump tried that... I also don't 100% know how involved he was with Russia personally, what I do know is that Putin benefits more from a conservative US than a Democrat US due to what the conservative US is likely to agree and do in terms of Russia, NATO and (aside from Iraq and Afghanistan) the parts of the Middle East that Russia care about and directly deal with.

There's a whole lot to it and Trump in particular wasn't personally that necessary to Russia, it's just that he uniquely owed them thanks to what they did to make Hillary look bad on social media.
#18
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Wylted
a person can legit be a tough on foreign policy, without being a war hawk or weak
To the Dem voters that are gonna tolerate it, yes, however several centrists or 'anti-Trump' voters from 2020 easily are going to shift depending how Biden's approach is spun in the News and you are wrong if you think the News truly is all left-wing or that being 'pro-Dem' is the same as being 'pro-Biden'. There are all kinds of agendas at play, Russia will work with anyone that benefits them, as long as they have just enough on the politician to pressure them to stay loyal.
#19
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
  • On one side we have a rapidly autocratizing oil oligarchy with dreams of invading an independent sovereign nation- made and recognized as independent by the Russian Government itself.
  • On the other side we have Europe's youngest democracy.  
  • Do we even need to ask which side Republicans are on?

Topic's author
#20
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@oromagi
You know damn well, my views aren't reflective of the Republican party's. 

There are a lot of democracies that fall, and the United States and other western countries ignore them. 

Are you beliefs consistent, should we have military intervention every time a democratic country is threatened with a coup or invasion?

Or are you just arguing in bad faith, because you believe the Ukraine is significant in some way and just don't feel like explaining that belief? 
Topic's author
#21
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
Most democrats also don't believe the ukraine is significant outside of political surfaces as well, so it really is a non partisan issue
#22
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Wylted
-->@oromagi
You know damn well, my views aren't reflective of the Republican party's. 
I know.  You like coups that succeed the first time.


There are a lot of democracies that fall, and the United States and other western countries ignore them. 
Is that right, Mr. History Buff?

Are you beliefs consistent, should we have military intervention every time a democratic country is threatened with a coup or invasion?
I do think that  the success and survival of our fellow democracies is part of the American mission, yes.  The Ukraine should join NATO and the great Western Democracies should vow to defend Europe from yet another Russian Dictator's invasion.  The age of Russian Invasions needs to come to an end if there's to be peace and prosperity in this world.  Yes, America should help Europe fight for that.

Or are you just arguing in bad faith, because you believe the Ukraine is significant in some way and just don't feel like explaining that belief? 
If you look at a map of Europe you see that Ukraine is one of a chain of the four large breadbasket countries of Europe arcing from Spain to the Steppelands: France, Germany, Poland, and Ukraine.  Protecting Ukraine from Eastern Interests is protecting the integrity of Europe as a bulwark of Western Values.  You can't be Pro-Europe without being Pro-Ukraine in the question of any Russian invasion, you can't be Pro-Western values without being Pro-Democracy in the question of any hostile invasion by Eastern empires.
#23
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Wylted
Hell even NATO won't touch those bums.


Trump was right. A shithole country.
#24
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,087
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
Same old,

Same old,

I don't trust you,

And I don't trust you,

But I am righteous,

But I am righteous too.

And we are also righteous,

And so are we,

And us,

And don't forget us,

Nor us.


Is anyone listening?

Nope.


Funny that,

We've learned how to make smartphones,

And instantly communicate with the rest of the planet.

But never learned how to make friends with the rest of the planet.


And we,

That's you,

And me.