Whose name do you use for the first commandment?

Author: GnosticChristianBishop

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Whose name do you use for the first commandment?

Jesus who said “he comes to cure and not kill the afflicted”.

Yahweh says he will come to kill, not cure the afflicted.

The one who always kills, has some Jews calling Yahweh a evil god.

I think the term suits.

You could name Spirit, if you are a Trinitarian, but the spirit does not speak in the bible, except to those with a Jesus consciousness, or one who has risen to a Christ consciousness.

Gnostic Christians condemned Yahweh to hell way back when Christians had morals.

We put our myth against theirs and called their God evil, and then the good old inquisitions; instead of trying to win the argument.

Jesus and his Armageddon does not seem to be much better than the genocidal Yahweh.

Most who read this might not agree, --- but if you put any name other than yourself, --- as the spirit that judges the good or evil in the Christian God, --- then you might wonder why you venerate an evil God.

I name Spirit God as I will not go to hell where Yahweh and Jesus are bound to end.

 Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be Matthew.

People hate moral questions.

We are all sinners, thank God; who will sin by accepting to follow one of the Christian Gods?

IMO, Christianity had the potential to be the worlds best religion. It changed and is now failing.

I think it a shame that they will drag Gnostic Christianity down with it.

Who do you name for Commandment # 1?

Regards
DL
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Yes, in the Gnostic Christian tradition, Christ is seen as a divine being which has taken human form in order to lead humanity back to the Light. ... For centuries, most scholarly knowledge of Gnosticism was limited to the anti-heretical writings of orthodox Christian figures such as Irenaeus of Lyons and Hippolytus of Rome.
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We are all sinners, thank God; who will sin by accepting to follow one of the Christian Gods?
Since sin is a crime against the God of Abraham and you don't believe in that God,  do you really believe sin exists? I don't have anything to do with the commandments that's Jewish law. 
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@FLRW
Indeed. 

Please remember that we hold no supernatural beliefs and used our myth for arguing against the Christians when they knew that their story was also a myth.  

The inquisitors did a lot of lying to justify their many murders of better creeds.

I would not say that we see Jesus as divine. 

We see him as an Eastern mystic and hero of 1,000 faces as coined by Joseph Campbell. 

We kept the older and better thinking.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.
 
 
Further.
 
Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."
 
Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.
 
"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."
 
Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
 
This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.
 
 
Regards
DL
 

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The section you put in bold is not accurately translated. The Hebrew word which you have as "commentary" is better read as "explanation." The word "commentary" might be seen as reducing the material to a secondary status when, in fact, it simply means that the rest of the material is what you would need to study to understand the first part of his instruction. 
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Whosoever made it up.
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@rosends
The historic parts in their holy books are not explanations.

Regardless, the author is not here to explain his choice of words and neither is the scholar who quoted it.

I just call it myth and allegory and see it as foolish to believe in a literal way.

The Jews put man above god and that is good enough for Gnostic Christians and the other more intelligent religions that do the same.

They are doing what is intelligent as compared to those who put God above man.

Especially the genocidal, homophobic and misogynous Christian/Muslim god. 

Regards
DL

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I have noted that no one wants to utter the name of Yahweh or Jesus in answer to this O.P.

I know why and so do Christians who cannot do decent apologetics for either of those vile and immoral god/s.

Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
The historic parts in their holy books are not explanations.
This was an issue of the translation of a talmudic statement and the intent by the speaker of that statement.

Regardless, the author is not here to explain his choice of words and neither is the scholar who quoted it.
But the choice of a word creates an impression. If the choice is inaccurate, the impression created is flawed.

The Jews put man above god and that is good enough for Gnostic Christians and the other more intelligent religions that do the same.
I'm not sure what you mean by this -- it certainly isn't a useful reduction of any religious view, especially one as complex as the Jewish approach to the world.
 





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@rosends
"I'm not sure what you mean by this"

I mean that Jews have always put man above God, in recognition that all the notions about any god are man made.

Jesus even asks in scriptures, have ye forgotten that ye are gods?

Most have, but not the intelligent who know what religions are all about.

"-- it certainly isn't a useful reduction of any religious view, especially one as complex as the Jewish approach to the world."

I see the Christian religion as a naturalistic religion, given that both it and nature praise sin and evil as necessary to God's plan to Christians and natures plan to the brighter who have discarded supernatural thinking as garbage thinking.  

See post 4.

Belief in Jewry has always been led by those who preach the oral traditions.



I do not think any Jew has ever been fool enough as to believe in talking serpents and donkeys.

Christians, on the other hand -----

Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
I mean that Jews have always put man above God, in recognition that all the notions about any god are man made.

I'm still not sure what this means. Judaism (at least Orthodoxy) puts God above everything. While any conceptions of God have to be limited by the human mind and therefore, to some degree, inaccurate, this doesn't change the relative position of God as above all.

Belief in Jewry has always been led by those who preach the oral traditions.

Unless one is a Karaite (or an ancient Sadduccee) the Oral Tradition is an integral part of Jewish belief, but it is sourced from God at Sinai.

I do not think any Jew has ever been fool enough as to believe in talking serpents and donkeys.
Then your knowledge of Judaism has been limited.

217 days later

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I mean that Jews have always put man above God, in recognition that all the notions about any god are man made.
True, when it came to making a covenant with God. Instead of offering worship of God, Abraham pulled out his penis and suggested circumcision.

Jesus even asks in scriptures, have ye forgotten that ye are gods?
Reminding them ye are gods was to legitimize Jesus’s own claim to be the son of god.

I do not think any Jew has ever been fool enough as to believe in talking serpents and donkeys.
Jews did believe in talking serpents and riding a donkey could fulfill  a messianic prophecy.

Gnostic Christians are well aligned with Judaism.
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@rosends
Jesus asked the Jews in the bible, have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

No one said yes, yet you see them as the majority.

You win this one.

Regards
DL
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@Shila
Jacob strove both for and against God when creating Jewry.

All of us should seek a master, but only to be able to do better.

Remember that Jesus takes over when he gets to heaven.

So should we all wish to.

Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Jacob strove both for and against God when creating Jewry.

All of us should seek a master, but only to be able to do better.

Remember that Jesus takes over when he gets to heaven.

So should we all wish to.

Regards
DL
The Jews were promised a Davidic Kingdom on Earth.
Jesus is a housekeeper in Heaven. Both are undelivered promised.

John 14:2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
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@Shila

I am a realist and see a lot more good than evil.

As a Gnostic Christian, I can see the underlying perfection of what is around me.

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said,  "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"
 
"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
 
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
 
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
 
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
 
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
 
As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
 
Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?
 
Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”
 
That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.
 
Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
I am a realist and see a lot more good than evil.

As a Gnostic Christian, I can see the underlying perfection of what is around me.

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said,  "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"
 
"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
 
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
 
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
 
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
 
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
 
As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
 
Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?
 
Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”
 
That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.
 
Regards
DL
The world is in a very precarious situation. Global warming, pandemics, Russian invasion of Ukraine, US influencing diminishing, etc. etc.

It is important we believe Jesus will return and be allowed to fix these problems. Searching for virgin births should be our highest priority. That is Jesus’s preferred method of conception.
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@Shila
Sons of Gods screwing our human women caused Yahweh to use genocide on the whole of Noah's earth.

To think that a returning, genocidal Armageddon holding savior like Jesus is good, is way too immoral of a position for me to endorse.

What denomination do you follow?

Why would you think that a God who can cure as easily as kill would choose to kill?

Regards
DL



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@Shila
What you see as evil in the world, some see as good.

Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Sons of Gods screwing our human women caused Yahweh to use genocide on the whole of Noah's earth.

To think that a returning, genocidal Armageddon holding savior like Jesus is good, is way too immoral of a position for me to endorse.

What denomination do you follow?

Why would you think that a God who can cure as easily as kill would choose to kill?

Regards
DL
God is portrayed in the Bible as a genocidal killer..
I follow Jews for Christ.

What you see as evil in the world, some see as good.

Regards
DL
I hope I am wrong in that case.
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@Shila
Let's chat on the morals that would have you ignore what Jesus taught, and sin to be saved?

On Jesus dying for you and Christians. Try to think in a moral way.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
 
Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL


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What you see as evil in the world, some see as good.

Regards
DL
I hope I am wrong in that case.

------------------

Christians sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to God's plan.

They are right, even as they have forgotten why. 

If you wish to argue, lets.

----------------
 
     Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?
 
Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.
 
Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.
 
If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
 
Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.
 
Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.
 
Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.
 
Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.
 
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.
 
Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.
 
This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.
 
Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.
 
There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.
 
This link speak to theistic evolution.
 
 
If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.
 
Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.
 
 
Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?
 
Regards
DL 
 

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@GnosticChristianBishop
Let's chat on the morals that would have you ignore what Jesus taught, and sin to be saved?

On Jesus dying for you and Christians. Try to think in a moral way.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
 
Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jesus had no choice.God sent Jesus to be sacrifice for us.

Jesus had no choice and lamented on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).
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@Shila
Not a word on the poor morals.

So many do not want to stop sinning.

A good way to end here.

Regards
DL



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@GnosticChristianBishop
Not a word on the poor morals.

So many do not want to stop sinning.

A good way to end here.

Regards
DL
@Harikrish
Scriptures show Jesus broke all the 10 commandments. These ironies exist in the Bible.

The 10 commandments say.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, To keep it holy.
5. Honour your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

Jesus broke many of the commandments, If not all!

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
Jesus tried to claim he was God.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "

2. You shall not make idols.
Jesus made a covenant with a cup.
Luke 22:20 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, Which is poured out for you.

3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Jesus said every word he spoke came from God. Unless God too was as incoherent as Jesus. God in the OT never spoke in parables. His orders were clear and direct.
Luke 18:34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, And they did not comprehend what He was saying.

4. Remember the Sabbath day, To keep it holy.
Jesus broke the sabbath.
Pharisees accused Him of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:10; Mark 3:2, John 9:14-16).

5. Honour your father and your mother.
Jesus tried to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, A daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"

6. You shall not murder.
Jesus murdered the truth.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "
Yet he spent his entire ministry condemning the very people he was sent to save.

7. You shall not commit adultery.
Jesus was unfaithful to God and his disciples. He left them to die even though he was given all authority over heaven and earth.
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

8. You shall not steal.
Jesus stole the words of the prophets before him and claimed they pointed to him.
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.
Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, Explaining from all the Scriptures. . . And Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures, Beginning with the books of Moses and the writings of all the prophets".

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Jesus accused God of betraying and forsaking him on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " which means, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "

10. You shall not covet.
Jesus suffered from a messiah complex and coveted the title messiah/Christ/Anointed one.
John 17:1 After Jesus said this, He looked toward heaven and prayed:
"Father, The hour has come. Glorify your Son, That your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, The only true God, And Jesus Christ, Whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, Glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Scriptures tell us Jesus was tried, Convicted and crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. . . . By the Romans. But the confusion continues.

Christians have waited for 2000 years for Jesus's return as he had promised without any success.
Preterists claims Christisns got it wrong, That Jesus returned in 70 AD.
Jehovah's Witnesses claim Jesus returned in 1874 or maybe 1914.
Others say Jesus could be the next thief who robs your house.
Revelation 16:15, Matthew 24:43, 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 1 Thessalonians 5:4, 2 Peter 3:10 ESV - ("Behold, I am coming like a thief in the night! )

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.

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#26
GnosticChristianBishop
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@Shila
My interest is in the garbage Christian morals.

We do not know if a Jesus ever existed, but we do know that Christian morals are garbage.

Regards
DL
#27
Shila
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@GnosticChristianBishop
My interest is in the garbage Christian morals.

We do not know if a Jesus ever existed, but we do know that Christian morals are garbage.

Regards
DL
If you know what is garbage then proving what is in it should be easy.
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#28
GnosticChristianBishop
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@Shila
It is demonstrable.

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DL
#29
Shila
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@GnosticChristianBishop
If you know what is garbage then proving what is in it should be easy.

It is demonstrable.

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DL
So you have been delving into Christian garbage.
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#30
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@Shila
The world reeks of it.

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DL