islam and black slavery -bonus :the wrong/right use of islamophobia-

Author: Lunar108
Religion

Posts

Total: 33
Topic's author
#1
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
at the time of certain islamic Caliphate muslims faced a very big problem.......................................
due to the jihad in Africa the number of black slaves was very high
making their market value very low , you could buy two black slaves for the meat of 1 chicken .
-------------------------
so the caliphate gathered his advisors and asked them about what he should do , and one of them had the answer .
-----------------------
"let us sell them to Europe"
-----------
now the muslim merchants took the black people on the silk road to sell them as slaves
----------
the entire race of black people was introduced to Europe as slaves thanks to islam
#there were no crusades in africa#
--------
here's the story of  muslim slave trader in libya who sells black slaves in modern days
the man hides behind islamophobia every time he is targeted for selling slaves
----------
quran 23-5:6
And they who guard their private parts , Except from their wives or those their right hands possess(slaves/war captives), for indeed, they will not be blamed -
quran 33-50 
O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess(slaves/war captives), [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
quran 4-23:24
Prohibited to you [for marriage] are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your father's sisters, your mother's sisters, your brother's daughters, your sister's daughters, your [milk] mothers who nursed you, your sisters through nursing, your wives' mothers, and your step-daughters under your guardianship [born] of your wives unto whom you have gone in. But if you have not gone in unto them, there is no sin upon you. And [also prohibited are] the wives of your sons who are from your [own] loins, and that you take [in marriage] two sisters simultaneously, except for what has already occurred. Indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful. -no incest-
And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess(slaves/war captives). [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.- you are allowed to f*ck the slaves/war captives -
hadiths
sahih al bukhari hadith number 371
Anas said, 'When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) invaded Khaibar, we offered the Fajr prayer there (early in the morning) when it was still dark. The Prophet (ﷺ) rode and Abu Talha rode too and I was riding behind Abu Talha. The Prophet (ﷺ) passed through the lane of Khaibar quickly and my knee was touching the thigh of the Prophet (ﷺ) . He uncovered his thigh and I saw the whiteness of the thigh of the Prophet. When he entered the town, he said, 'Allahu Akbar! Khaibar is ruined. Whenever we approach near a (hostile) nation (to fight) then evil will be the morning of those who have been warned.' He repeated this thrice. The people came out for their jobs and some of them said, 'Muhammad (has come).' (Some of our companions added, "With his army.") We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and the booty was collected. Dihya came and said, 'O Allah's Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.' The Prophet said, 'Go and take any slave girl.' He took Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet (ﷺ) and said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)s! You gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraidha and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.' So the Prophet (ﷺ) said, 'Bring him along with her.' So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet (ﷺ) saw her, he said to Dihya, 'Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.' Anas added: The Prophet (ﷺ) then manumitted her and married her." Thabit asked Anas, "O Abu Hamza! What did the Prophet (ﷺ) pay her (as Mahr)?" He said, "Her self was her Mahr for he manumitted her and then married her." Anas added, "While on the way, Um Sulaim dressed her for marriage (ceremony) and at night she sent her as a bride to the Prophet (ﷺ) . So the Prophet was a bridegroom and he said, 'Whoever has anything (food) should bring it.' He spread out a leather sheet (for the food) and some brought dates and others cooking butter. (I think he (Anas) mentioned As-Sawaq). So they prepared a dish of Hais (a kind of meal). And that was Walima (the marriage banquet) of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ."
=================================================================================================
Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 3358
In-book reference : Book 23, Hadith 33
English translation : Book 22, Hadith 3352
Grade: Sahih (Al-Albani)
The Prophet (ﷺ) bought a slave for two slaves.
============================================================================
Grade: Sahih (Darussalam)
Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 4184
In-book reference : Book 39, Hadith 36
English translation : Vol. 5, Book 39, Hadith 4189
"A slave came and pledged to the Prophet to emigrate, and the Prophet did not realize that he was a slave. Then his master came looking for him. The Prophet said: 'Sell him to me,' and he bought him for two black slaves. Then he did not accept the pledge from anyone until he asked: 'Is he a slave?"'
a muslim slave = 2 non-muslim slaves.
=======================================
Grade: Sahih (Al-Albani)
Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 4404
In-book reference : Book 40, Hadith 54
English translation : Book 39, Hadith 4390
I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.
====================================================
sahih bukhari
Sunnah.com reference : Book 11, Hadith 10
English translation : Book 11, Hadith 1307
Arabic reference : Book 11, Hadith 1280
Nafi' (RAA) narrated, ‘The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) made an attack on Bani al-Mustaliq when they were unaware. He killed the men who were lighting and took the women and children as captives.’ 'Abdullah bin Umar told me about it. Agreed upon,
=============================================================
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 2541
In-book reference : Book 49, Hadith 24
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 3, Book 46, Hadith 717
I wrote a letter to Nafi` and Nafi` wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet (ﷺ) had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet (ﷺ) got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi` said that Ibn `Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn `Umar was in that army.
============================================================
muhammad did free a black slave because he was a muslim , he didn't care about the other slaves when he freed the muslim slave 
muhammad/islam was totally ok with slavery as long as the slave is not a muslim .



#2
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
Islamophobia is the fear of, hatred of, or prejudice against the religion of Islam or Muslims in general.  I'd argue that there is no "right use" for bigotry.  Generalizations on such a scale rapidly multiply inaccuracies.
Topic's author
#3
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@oromagi
Islamophobia is the fear of, hatred of, or prejudice against the religion of Islam or Muslims in general.  I'd argue that there is no "right use" for bigotry.  Generalizations on such a scale rapidly multiply inaccuracies.
I agree on the part about it against muslims but don't agree that islam should be included under islamophobia .
Topic's author
#4
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@oromagi
A slaver is using your religion to justify selling black slaves and he hides behind islamophobia because it's being used to shield islam when it should only be used to shield muslims (people)
a muslim is a person who believes in islam and any 
the fear of, hatred of, or prejudice against that
person is discrimination .
==========================================================================
that doesn't apply to islam , islam is a religion , an ideology 
and ideologies and religions are judged based on their teachings 
let me be frank here and tell you after learning what islam teaches people , having such feeling of 
fear of, hatred of, or prejudice against that
is only natural .
Topic's author
#5
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@oromagi
to put it simply :
people are judged based on their personalities not their religion
religion is judged based on it's teachings , history , god , the messenger of that god ,,,,,,,, among many other things
#6
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@oromagi
Islamophobia is the fear of, hatred of, or prejudice against the religion of Islam or Muslims in general.  I'd argue that there is no "right use" for bigotry.  Generalizations on such a scale rapidly multiply inaccuracies.

And a Phobia is an irrational fear or dread of something or someone.  I see nothing irrational about fearing Islam. 
#7
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,085
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Lunar108
- You seem to have so much to say about Islam & the beloved Prophet (pbuh) regarding slavery. Why not have a debate about this subject? 


#8
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,085
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Lunar108
at the time of certain islamic Caliphate muslims faced a very big problem
due to the jihad in Africa the number of black slaves was very high
making their market value very low , you could buy two black slaves for the meat of 1 chicken .
- & 10 Black slaves for a unicorn... You have a wild imagination, fueled by your hate of course... There was no slavery in Islamic Caliphate! We just concede calling it that because of convention. There is nothing in common between Western chattel slavery & Islamic slave except the name.  The worst slave status in Islam (Qin) was far better than the best serf in Europe, in terms of rights & social standing & opportunity. They had the right to own property, marry, practice their own faith, & participate in all aspects of social & political life, as long as they fulfill their duties to their masters, wether be it at home or plantation or factory or regiment or elsewhere -unlike serfs & peasants, who had no such opportunities. Historically, some Qins even rose to the highest level of government, such as Abu Misk Kafur as a ruler of Egypt in the 10th century, or Mudhafar Qutuz, the mighty conqueror & founder of the Mamluk dynasty. The former, a Black slave from Nubia, & the latter a Circassian slave from the Caucasus. Qins also constituted the small minority of slaves in the Muslim world, the majority were Mawali. The other types of slaves (namely: Mudabbar, Mukatab, Um-Walad, & Mawla) could not be sold or bought, & were essential freeman, except in allegiance & indemnity to the master. In case you did not know, 3 fo the 4 rulings factions in the Ottoman Empire were made up of slaves. The Court (Divan) led by the Grand Vizier (generally a slave), the Harem led by the Sultanah (generally a slave), & the Military (Janissaries) led by slave generals.


so the caliphate gathered his advisors and asked them about what he should do , and one of them had the answer .
"let us sell them to Europe"
- Cute story. I have a better one. It's called History. Most slaves taken by Muslims were either Whites or Turks. Black slaves were rarely a thing, for a good reason. The only source of slaves in Islam is POWs (prisoners of war); since much of Black Africa joined the faith through trade & preaching (by Sufis), there was little chance to acquire such slaves. That said, some important Black slave communities in the MENA region (Middle East North Africa) were: the Ikhshidi slaves from Nubia (from early conquests into Abyssinia) – among them the famous ruler of Egypt Abu Misk Kafus who ruled Egypt during the 10th century (YES, he was a Black slave) – The Bukhari slaves (from the conquest of Saadi dynasty of the Songhai empire & later), they constituted the noble class in Morrocan Alawi dynasty under the Sultan, & the officers of the Royal Guards (they still do) – The Black eunuchs of Arabia who generally managed the holy mosques.... etc.


the entire race of black people was introduced to Europe as slaves thanks to islam
#there were no crusades in africa#
- Except the centuries of crusades by Europeans in Africa, which led to 25 millions African deaths. You can't possibly be this ignorant?! 


.- you are allowed to f*ck the slaves/war captives -
- Bruh... You literally added those words in the verse & thereafter concluded their lawfulness. Genius! While you're at it, why don't you add "homosexuals" or even "aliens" to the verse & boom! it's allowed. 


....Prophet (ﷺ) saw her, he said to Dihya, 'Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.' ...
- I know you can't handle the justice & compassion shown by Islam to POWs, because in your moral system POWs deserve to rot in prison & be tortured & raped in there instead. Even for an agnostic, this is some pretty dark moral abyss.

- For those who don't know the background. Safyah's father, Huyay, was a staunch enemy to the Prophet (pbuh). He belonged to Bun Nadir, a Jewish tribe in Medina which was under covenant with Muslims. Unlike his brother who converted to Islam, Huyay chose rebellion. Thus, he set up an assassination attempt against the beloved Prophet (pbuh) in Medina, for which he was expelled from the city. Normally, he would have been executed for High Treason, but he had too many supporters from his tribe, it would've created an uproar. Huyay then goes to Khaybar, then rallies up an anti-Muslim coalition made up of Quraysh, Hawazin & many other tribes, called Ahzab (leagues). They siege the Muslims for weeks, which fails. The beloved Prophet (pbuh) could not retaliate against Khaybar, for if he marches to the North to meet them, the Quraysh would attack Medina from the South. So he makes a truce with Quraysh first, then moves towards Khaybar in the North. The Muslims win the battle, they take POWs & deal with them according to Sharia. POWs in Islam are to be integrated back into Muslim society if ransom or exchange could not be met. To that effect, the Prophet (pbuh) took our beloved mother Safyah, she asked for freedom, he proposed marriage, to which she agreed. & the rest is as they say history.
 

The Prophet (ﷺ) bought a slave for two slaves.
- He saved a Muslim slave who was being tortured by offering his master two... Yes. The compassion! The horror! 


I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.
- Another story where the greatness of our beloved Prophet (pbuh) shines. They were executed for High Treason, for aiding enemy camp & attacking Muslims while under siege. Very few recorded incident in History come close to the level of treason of Banu Quraydhah. They not only broke their covenant with the Prophet (pbuh) in protecting the city's rear to allowed the enemy to come into Medina for the purpose of annihilating Muslims while under siege, they also supported the invaders with sustenance & weapons. On top of that, they themselves attacked the wives & children of Muslims while their husbands were out fighting by the trench against the coalition. After the siege, Banu Quraydha's ambitions in annihilating the Muslims were exposed. The Prophet (pbuh) -a paramount example of compassion- pardoned those among them who wished to convert, those who declared disapproval against the treason, & those who sought refuge with Muslims -despite the seriousness of their crime. As for the rest of adult male traitors who did not repent, justice was served as should. Treason is the most capital of all capital crimes, or are you suggesting the law does not apply to treasonous Jews?! 


Nafi' (RAA) narrated, ‘The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) made an attack on Bani al-Mustaliq when they were unaware. He killed the men who were lighting and took the women and children as captives.
- Yet another story that shows the mercy of our beloved Prophet (pbuh). Where do you even get this stuff?! You try very hard to take stories out of any context, obviously to support your hateful narrative. Bani Mustaliq were literally in their military camp which they set up to invade the Muslims in Medina, before the Prophet (pbuh) intercepted them & caught them off guard. They quickly lost the battle, hence they became POWs, which then Muhammed (pbuh) pardoned & released shortly after. That is our beloved Prophet (pbuh), a prophet of compassion & forgiveness.


muhammad did free a black slave because he was a muslim , he didn't care about the other slaves when he freed the muslim slave
- The Prophet (pbuh) freed over 60 slaves, of all faiths & races, with the little money that he had. His companions freed hundreds of thousands. Abd-Rahman Ibn Awf, becoming a rich merchant during the early Islamic conquests, is known to have freed over 30,000 slaves.


muhammad/islam was totally ok with slavery as long as the slave is not a muslim .
- Drivel! Most slaves in Islamic history were Muslim!!! Slavery, as in chattel slavery, is categorically prohibited in Sharia. What we call slavery in Sharia is analogous to indefinite contract in Western Law.

Topic's author
#9
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine
"Autas captives"
the reason muslims go to jihad is to take the female captives of the countries they conquer Muhammad allowed his followers to have sex with the female captives taken from the defeated enemies of muslims or should I call them slaves since they can even sell them ,, they are given as a reward to his followers
Topic's author
#10
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine

....Prophet (ﷺ) saw her, he said to Dihya, 'Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.' ...
- I know you can't handle the justice & compassion shown by Islam to POWs, because in your moral system POWs deserve to rot in prison & be tortured & raped in there instead. Even for an agnostic, this is some pretty dark moral abyss.

- For those who don't know the background. Safyah's father, Huyay, was a staunch enemy to the Prophet (pbuh). He belonged to Bun Nadir, a Jewish tribe in Medina which was under covenant with Muslims. Unlike his brother who converted to Islam, Huyay chose rebellion. Thus, he set up an assassination attempt against the beloved Prophet (pbuh) in Medina, for which he was expelled from the city. Normally, he would have been executed for High Treason, but he had too many supporters from his tribe, it would've created an uproar. Huyay then goes to Khaybar, then rallies up an anti-Muslim coalition made up of Quraysh, Hawazin & many other tribes, called Ahzab (leagues). They siege the Muslims for weeks, which fails. The beloved Prophet (pbuh) could not retaliate against Khaybar, for if he marches to the North to meet them, the Quraysh would attack Medina from the South. So he makes a truce with Quraysh first, then moves towards Khaybar in the North. The Muslims win the battle, they take POWs & deal with them according to Sharia. POWs in Islam are to be integrated back into Muslim society if ransom or exchange could not be met. To that effect, the Prophet (pbuh) took our beloved mother Safyah, she asked for freedom, he proposed marriage, to which she agreed. & the rest is as they say history.
a religious leader comes to you after the battle and tells you to pick whichever slave girl you want , and you claim that he is doing that to let him pick one slave girl to protect her ? do you think everybody else is an idiot ?
Topic's author
#11
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine

The Prophet (ﷺ) bought a slave for two slaves.
- He saved a Muslim slave who was being tortured by offering his master two... Yes. The compassion! The horror! 

he is sending a message 
1 muslim slave = 2 non-muslim slaves
Topic's author
#12
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine
Nafi' (RAA) narrated, ‘The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) made an attack on Bani al-Mustaliq when they were unaware. He killed the men who were lighting and took the women and children as captives.
- Yet another story that shows the mercy of our beloved Prophet (pbuh). Where do you even get this stuff?! You try very hard to take stories out of any context, obviously to support your hateful narrative. Bani Mustaliq were literally in their military camp which they set up to invade the Muslims in Medina, before the Prophet (pbuh) intercepted them & caught them off guard. They quickly lost the battle, hence they became POWs, which then Muhammed (pbuh) pardoned & released shortly after. That is our beloved Prophet (pbuh), a prophet of compassion & forgiveness.
provide evidence , you've yet to list where does your stories come from ? you've mentioned your claims but forgot to place your sources feel free to check mine though
Topic's author
#13
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine

muhammad did free a black slave because he was a muslim , he didn't care about the other slaves when he freed the muslim slave
- The Prophet (pbuh) freed over 60 slaves, of all faiths & races, with the little money that he had. His companions freed hundreds of thousands. Abd-Rahman Ibn Awf, becoming a rich merchant during the early Islamic conquests, is known to have freed over 30,000 slaves.

where are your sources again ?
I recall the story of muhammad freeing bilal a black man since he was a muslim , yet he didn't free the other slaves under Umayyah ibn Khalaf
Topic's author
#14
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine
muhammad/islam was totally ok with slavery as long as the slave is not a muslim .
- Drivel! Most slaves in Islamic history were Muslim!!! Slavery, as in chattel slavery, is categorically prohibited in Sharia. What we call slavery in Sharia is analogous to indefinite contract in Western Law.

provide evidence , show me where did the quran or any hadith from sahih bukhari or muslim prohibiting slavery ?
Topic's author
#15
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine
at the time of certain islamic Caliphate muslims faced a very big problem
due to the jihad in Africa the number of black slaves was very high
making their market value very low , you could buy two black slaves for the meat of 1 chicken .
- & 10 Black slaves for a unicorn... You have a wild imagination, fueled by your hate of course... There was no slavery in Islamic Caliphate! We just concede calling it that because of convention. There is nothing in common between Western chattel slavery & Islamic slave except the name.  The worst slave status in Islam (Qin) was far better than the best serf in Europe, in terms of rights & social standing & opportunity. They had the right to own property, marry, practice their own faith, & participate in all aspects of social & political life, as long as they fulfill their duties to their masters, wether be it at home or plantation or factory or regiment or elsewhere -unlike serfs & peasants, who had no such opportunities. Historically, some Qins even rose to the highest level of government, such as Abu Misk Kafur as a ruler of Egypt in the 10th century, or Mudhafar Qutuz, the mighty conqueror & founder of the Mamluk dynasty. The former, a Black slave from Nubia, & the latter a Circassian slave from the Caucasus. Qins also constituted the small minority of slaves in the Muslim world, the majority were Mawali. The other types of slaves (namely: Mudabbar, Mukatab, Um-Walad, & Mawla) could not be sold or bought, & were essential freeman, except in allegiance & indemnity to the master. In case you did not know, 3 fo the 4 rulings factions in the Ottoman Empire were made up of slaves. The Court (Divan) led by the Grand Vizier (generally a slave), the Harem led by the Sultanah (generally a slave), & the Military (Janissaries) led by slave generals.


so the caliphate gathered his advisors and asked them about what he should do , and one of them had the answer .
"let us sell them to Europe"
- Cute story. I have a better one. It's called History. Most slaves taken by Muslims were either Whites or Turks. Black slaves were rarely a thing, for a good reason. The only source of slaves in Islam is POWs (prisoners of war); since much of Black Africa joined the faith through trade & preaching (by Sufis), there was little chance to acquire such slaves. That said, some important Black slave communities in the MENA region (Middle East North Africa) were: the Ikhshidi slaves from Nubia (from early conquests into Abyssinia) – among them the famous ruler of Egypt Abu Misk Kafus who ruled Egypt during the 10th century (YES, he was a Black slave) – The Bukhari slaves (from the conquest of Saadi dynasty of the Songhai empire & later), they constituted the noble class in Morrocan Alawi dynasty under the Sultan, & the officers of the Royal Guards (they still do) – The Black eunuchs of Arabia who generally managed the holy mosques.... etc.


the entire race of black people was introduced to Europe as slaves thanks to islam
#there were no crusades in africa#
- Except the centuries of crusades by Europeans in Africa, which led to 25 millions African deaths. You can't possibly be this ignorant
I would love to see the evidence supporting this claim , I am myself invested against christianity as much as I am against islam 
you know what I hate the most? claims that lack any supportive evidence  , those are dismissed as nonsense 
#16
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,085
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Lunar108
"Autas captives"
the reason muslims go to jihad is to take the female captives of the countries they conquer
- Aren't you something! How very convenient of you to ignore the part that said, "A league of mountain tribes hostile to Muhammad formed an alliance to attack him."... How come you always siding with the aggressors? You can't possibly have that much hate against our beloved Prophet (pbuh) that you'd side with the oppressors against him?


 Muhammad allowed his followers to have sex with the female captives taken from the defeated enemies of muslims or should I call them slaves since they can even sell them ,, they are given as a reward to his followers
- Ah, no. Pal, those are called PRISONERS OF WAR! Those in your moral system you keep in dungeons for torture & rape. Let's see... The men came with their women to attack the Muslims, they lost the battle, hence prisoners. What a shock! Why are you so concerned with the aggressors again?! – As for the aftermath, the leaders of the attacking tribes will come to plead with the Prophet (pbuh) for freedom, which he indeed grants them. Another example of compassion from our beloved Prophet (pbuh). Thank you for showing everyone the mercy of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).


a religious leader comes to you after the battle and tells you to pick whichever slave girl you want , and you claim that he is doing that to let him pick one slave girl to protect her ?
- POW, by Sharia, are to be released is by grace or ransom: "bind captives [of war] firmly, then release them later either by grace or by ransom –until the toils of war have ended." (47:4). The Prophet (pbuh) has also exercised a third option: turning POW to bondage -based on the principle of reciprocity (i.e. if the enemy takes Muslim POW as slaves, Muslims reciprocate). However, this reciprocation only extends in name; in practice Muslims must treat slaves effectively as family -with all rights that entails (i.e. take them in & guarantee financial & social security for them, as they would their children). POW who convert to Islam before bondage are automatically free. Those among the POW who do not wish to stay in bondage must seek Mukataba (contract of emancipation): "If any of your slaves wish to pay for their freedom, make a contract with them accordingly" (24:33), upon signing such contract the slave becomes a mukatab -a freedom- until they fulfill their installments (or ransom themselves). In effect, Islamic bondage is release from internment into social guardianship.

- Let's compare this with your Western practices towards POW, there isn't much to show for. Sharia allows POW only in legitimate warfare (Just War, i.e. defensive warfare); Western system couldn't care less (all their warfare is seldom non-offensive). Sharia grants essential rights to POW in grace, ransom or guardianship; the Western system grants none, except by way of extra-national conventions mostly used to compel other nations into submission. Sharia offers on hand freedom from internment (prison) by way of repatriation (grace or ransom) or integration (into Muslim families) or even emancipation (by contract or conversion); Western system offers none, POW are perpetually at the mercy of their captors in confinement or torture. This can only make sense in a defensive warfare -where it's in the state's interest to keep enemy's POW in confinement for self-preservation, which is contrary to Western practices. Sharia, in contrast, shows mercy even to the POW enemy who came with the intent to massacre your people & pillage your wealth. That is the greatness of Islam & out beloved Prophet (pbuh).


do you think everybody else is an idiot ?
- Just you.


he is sending a message 
1 muslim slave = 2 non-muslim slaves
- I know you'd rather he left the slave to die under torture. Stick to your moral abyss.


provide evidence , you've yet to list where does your stories come from ? you've mentioned your claims but forgot to place your sources feel free to check mine though
- Bruh, are you insane?! You bring up a story, cut it from its context, then ask me for sources?! Either, you're disingenuous you don't want admit it, or ignorant. If you're ignorant, then why are you spreading all these lies? Regardless: "One hundred families of Banu al-Mustaliq were set free".


- The Prophet (pbuh) freed over 60 slaves, of all faiths & races, with the little money that he had. His companions freed hundreds of thousands. Abd-Rahman Ibn Awf, becoming a rich merchant during the early Islamic conquests, is known to have freed over 30,000 slaves.
where are your sources again ?
- Where are yours?! Wikislam is not a source... You can find the list of freed slaves by the beloved Prophet (pbuh) in 'Subul Huda Wa Rashad' or 'Imta Asmaa' (though not available in English). As for Abd-Rahman Ibn Awf's deeds, Here.


I recall the story of muhammad freeing bilal a black man since he was a muslim , yet he didn't free the other slaves under Umayyah ibn Khalaf
- He did not free him for being Muslim, he freed him for being tortured to death... 


provide evidence , show me where did the quran or any hadith from sahih bukhari or muslim prohibiting slavery ?
- What the Quran & the Hadith enjoin is Riqq, not chattel slavery. Raqeed, "slave" in the Sharia sense, has nothing to do a slave in the western sense. While Black slaves in plantations were being treated as cattle in 19th century US, their counterparts in the Ottoman Empire were being selected for next Grand Vizier (prime minister) or admiral or officer. Do you understand the difference? In fact, the standing of a slave in Islam is better -legally & historically- than many types of laborers in the West.


I would love to see the evidence supporting this claim , I am myself invested against christianity as much as I am against islam  you know what I hate the most? claims that lack any supportive evidence  , those are dismissed as nonsense 
- Dude, aren't you embarrassed enough? It's like I'm telling someone about the centuries of European colonialism of the Americas, & they boastfully ask for evidence?! Have you ever opened a History book? Maybe an article?

Topic's author
#17
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine


provide evidence , you've yet to list where does your stories come from ? you've mentioned your claims but forgot to place your sources feel free to check mine though
- Bruh, are you insane?! You bring up a story, cut it from its context, then ask me for sources?! Either, you're disingenuous you don't want admit it, or ignorant. If you're ignorant, then why are you spreading all these lies? Regardless: "One hundred families of Banu al-Mustaliq were set free".

wow , the only time he did it it was a betrothal gift , to his wife 

I would love to see the evidence supporting this claim , I am myself invested against christianity as much as I am against islam  you know what I hate the most? claims that lack any supportive evidence  , those are dismissed as nonsense 
- Dude, aren't you embarrassed enough? It's like I'm telling someone about the centuries of European colonialism of the Americas, & they boastfully ask for evidence?! Have you ever opened a History book? Maybe an article?

and it all started with a muslim merchant introducing the entire black people as slaves and selling them on the silk road

Topic's author
#18
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine
there's difference between colonization and a crusade 

provide evidence , show me where did the quran or any hadith from sahih bukhari or muslim prohibiting slavery ?
- What the Quran & the Hadith enjoin is Riqq, not chattel slavery. Raqeed, "slave" in the Sharia sense, has nothing to do a slave in the western sense. While Black slaves in plantations were being treated as cattle in 19th century US, their counterparts in the Ottoman Empire were being selected for next Grand Vizier (prime minister) or admiral or officer. Do you understand the difference? In fact, the standing of a slave in Islam is better -legally & historically- than many types of laborers in the West.
 
would they hand such position to any non-muslim black person ?

I recall the story of muhammad freeing bilal a black man since he was a muslim , yet he didn't free the other slaves under Umayyah ibn Khalaf
- He did not free him for being Muslim, he freed him for being tortured to death... 

how many other slaves died due to torture ? he was being tortured for being a muslim , if I recall ? yet muhammad only saved this one .

he is sending a message 
1 muslim slave = 2 non-muslim slaves
- I know you'd rather he left the slave to die under torture. Stick to your moral abyss.

the slave run away from his owner and converted to islam so muhammad giving two slave to torture in the place of the muslim slave is the solution ?

do you think everybody else is an idiot ?
- Just you.

thank you . attacking the person rather than the ideas shows your character .

a religious leader comes to you after the battle and tells you to pick whichever slave girl you want , and you claim that he is doing that to let him pick one slave girl to protect her ?
- POW, by Sharia, are to be released is by grace or ransom: "bind captives [of war] firmly, then release them later either by grace or by ransom –until the toils of war have ended." (47:4). The Prophet (pbuh) has also exercised a third option: turning POW to bondage -based on the principle of reciprocity (i.e. if the enemy takes Muslim POW as slaves, Muslims reciprocate). However, this reciprocation only extends in name; in practice Muslims must treat slaves effectively as family -with all rights that entails (i.e. take them in & guarantee financial & social security for them, as they would their children). POW who convert to Islam before bondage are automatically free. Those among the POW who do not wish to stay in bondage must seek Mukataba (contract of emancipation): "If any of your slaves wish to pay for their freedom, make a contract with them accordingly" (24:33), upon signing such contract the slave becomes a mukatab -a freedom- until they fulfill their installments (or ransom themselves). In effect, Islamic bondage is release from internment into social guardianship.

- Let's compare this with your Western practices towards POW, there isn't much to show for. Sharia allows POW only in legitimate warfare (Just War, i.e. defensive warfare); Western system couldn't care less (all their warfare is seldom non-offensive). Sharia grants essential rights to POW in grace, ransom or guardianship; the Western system grants none, except by way of extra-national conventions mostly used to compel other nations into submission. Sharia offers on hand freedom from internment (prison) by way of repatriation (grace or ransom) or integration (into Muslim families) or even emancipation (by contract or conversion); Western system offers none, POW are perpetually at the mercy of their captors in confinement or torture. This can only make sense in a defensive warfare -where it's in the state's interest to keep enemy's POW in confinement for self-preservation, which is contrary to Western practices. Sharia, in contrast, shows mercy even to the POW enemy who came with the intent to massacre your people & pillage your wealth. That is the greatness of Islam & out beloved Prophet (pbuh).
all crusades were defensive wars , I'm an agnostic and yet I acknowledge this since all the crusades were fought to restore the lands that muslims took from christians to begin with
muhammad and allah allowed his followers to sleep with the female war captives and the evidence have been mentioned in my post before 
muhammad himself would divide those female war captives along with battle spoils among his followers that fought with him .
When the slave runs away from his master, his prayer is not accepted.

Reference : Sahih Muslim 70
In-book reference : Book 1, Hadith 136
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 1, Hadith 131
  (deprecated numbering scheme) 



#19
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,085
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Lunar108
wow , the only time he did it it was a betrothal gift , to his wife
- Dude, have some shame! Your western secular system is so disgustingly horrible when dealing with POWs, only internment to the worst possible torture & rape, & often death awaits them. POWs have no rights. Yet, here you are attempting to express disdain towards our beloved Prophet's mercy towards POWs. Get back down to your moral abyss please.

- As to what you said, I feel like I have to explain everything to you. That is how alliances are made mate. Bani Mustalaq just few months prior were fighting alongside Quraysh in their invasion of Medina, they were again on their way to launch another attack. They were staunch enemies to Muslims, & yet, by the end of that day they became friends instead. How could that possibly happen? Because the Prophet (pbuh) showed them justice & mercy, by marrying the daughter of their leader & granting general amnesty to everyone. – Contrary to your wishful thinking, the same happens literally every time, such as in the other incident you mentioned in Autas. They brought their armies to attack the Muslims, they lost the battle, they were taken as prisoners too. Then the Prophet (pbuh) grants them amnesty, thereafter become his allies. This level of justice & compassion is nonexistent in your Western system & your History. Anything else?


and it all started with a muslim merchant introducing the entire black people as slaves and selling them on the silk road
- Let me ask again, have you ever opened a History book? Say, no. Have you heard of Portuguese colonial Africa? It started there.


- Let's see... 'Sources: The Legacy of Arab-Islam In Africa by Azumah John Alembillah & Race and Slavery in the Middle East by Bernard Lewis' – one is a some random Islamophobic pastor, the other is a Jewish critic of Islam. The guy couldn't find a single academic or reliable source to resort to these? LOL!

. Literally 90% of the video is fake news from the very start: "In 1842, the British Consul General in Morocco wrote a letter to the Sultan to ask him if he had taken any measures to stop slavery or at least, slave trade. The sultan replied that he will not do anything about it because it has been the norm since the time of the sons of Adam and no sects of Islam are against it. Hence, he will not permit anything the Qur’an forbids and will not make unlawful anything that the Qur’an has allowed". – First of all, this is coming from a nation which is known to have enslaved & massacred more people than any other in Human History! LOL! Second of all, the missing factor here is that Back slaves in Morocco (called 'Abid Bukhari') constituted the backbone of the Sultan's military power, hence Europe's interest in the matter – analogous to Slavic slaves in the Ottoman Empire. Black slaves in Morocco made up the officers, royal guards, generals, & sometimes even most court officials. This is unlike the status of Black slaves in Europe (or the US). Third of all, same as in the Ottoman Empire, a slave under Alawit Morocco could seek emancipation in court, either by Zakat or by ransoming his freedom; though that rarely happened. You know why? No slave is dumb enough to lose his post of authority & privilege just to be a free man with none. Fourth of all, even after the abolishment of slavery, freedman & workers in Europe & America still had it much worse than the worse "slave" in the Muslim world. In fact, the status of American soldiers today is worse than that of 'Abid Bukhari' slaves back then in Morocco, at least they had the option to opt out, whereas soldiers in the US Military have none.

- Since you have so much to say about this why are you refusing to have a debate?


- Interesting. A sight I might've seen too often in the US & Europe, though not as bad. I don't need to send you links right? This is pretty much normalized in your culture, I don't get why you sending me these links.


would they hand such position to any non-muslim black person ?
- I don't see any Muslim prime minister or admiral in Europe or the US, do you? It has been only a couple of decades since free Black people could even hold official positions in the US... that's not something to be proud of.


how many other slaves died due to torture ? he was being tortured for being a muslim , if I recall ? yet muhammad only saved this one .
- He saved eleven, though many died indeed, among the free as well. How terrible of our beloved Prophet (pbuh)... But let me get this straight, you are blaming the Prophet (pbuh) for the torture these slaves were subjected to because he couldn't free all of them instead of the masters performing these tortures...? Honestly, are you a psychopath? 


thank you . attacking the person rather than the ideas shows your character .
- Sounds like you're talking to a mirror. That's what you've been doing all along...

muhammad and allah allowed his followers to sleep with the female war captives and the evidence have been mentioned in my post before
- No such thing. That's zina (adultery), & it's punishable in Sharia.
 

muhammad himself would divide those female war captives along with battle spoils among his followers that fought with him.
- You keep running in circles. Those are called PRISONERS OF WAR, as in enemy combatants who were just moments ago in a death match with your people... who by the way, in your amazing western laws, have no right except being at the mercy of their captors in internment, torture, or death. Contrast that with our beloved Prophet (pbuh)'s treatment. No Creed or Law has honored humans, even POWs as our beloved has. He (pbuh) categorically prohibited killing female POWs, instead granting them many options for repentance & opportunity, to insure both their security & that of the state, he (pbuh) commanded that they be:
1. Cared for, well treated, fed & clothed while in captivity & no harm shall come to them, unless in penalty (for committing crime), "'In pursuance of Mahomet’s commands, the citizens of Medîna, and such of the Refugees as possessed houses, received the prisoners, and treated them with much consideration. “Blessings be on the men of Medina!” said one of these prisoners in later days; “they made us ride, while they themselves walked, they gave us wheaten bread to eat when there was little of it, contenting themselves with dates.”
2. Exchanged with Muslim POWs held in enemy camp. This option is the sole path to freedom available to POWs captured in the great Western system; & only because it is for the sake of their own, not for the sake of the POWs they took.
3. Granted amnesty for purpose of allegiance & alliance with prior enemies, which is what the Prophet (pbuh) did with the overwhelming majority of captives.
4. Released, under security conditions. As inconceivable as it is in Western systems to just set POWs free, for the obvious reason of becoming a security threat to the state, nevertheless, Muhammed (pbuh) did indeed offer freedom for captives who pledged never to fight against him & those who taught illiterate Muslims literacy...etc. That shows his ideal sense of mercy.
5. Ransomed, in accordance with the Quran: "bind captives [of war] firmly, then release them later either by grace or by ransom –until the toils of war have ended." (47:4). You might find this shocking, but not even ransom is granted in Western treatment of POWs. How horrible must your system be then, huh!
6. Integrated into Muslim society into a guardianship bondage, for the POWs who have not being exchanged, freed or ransomed by their people, "Women who are neither freed nor ransomed by their people were to be kept in bondage... to give them their rights to survive peacefully, and they could not be left astray." Contrary to Western practices of keeping them in dungeons or in best case scenario abandoning them to starve to death. Praise be to our compassionate & just Prophet (pbuh).
7. Freed through several paths of emancipation. Freeing slaves is one of the greatest deeds in Islam, & also an atonement for pretty much everything one can atone for. One of the 8 expenses of Zakat is emancipation, i.e. 1/8th of Islamic tax goes towards freeing slaves. Slaves have the right to buy their freedom back by signing the Mukataba contract. Female slaves can also gain freedom by giving birth...etc. Tell me where I can find this in Western treatment of POWs. LOL! I'm kidding, no such thing.


When the slave runs away from his master, his prayer is not accepted.
- What's your point? If I recall correctly, the fate of runway slaves in America was along the line of death or amputation... Even today, runaway soldiers or workers get jail sentences. If your moral standard is so high, then you should quit being a secular agnostic & become Muslim.



#20
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,085
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Lunar108

all crusades were defensive wars , I'm an agnostic and yet I acknowledge this since all the crusades were fought to restore the lands that muslims took from christians to begin with
- This is a joke right?! I didn't know you could do worse, yet here you are proving me wrong. You just hit rock bottom into your moral abyss.
ONE, the majority of crusades were actually carried out against fellow Christians, many sects of which massacred in the process (such as the Catharists). How defensive of them... 
TWO, the middle eastern Crusades were largely instigated by Franks (& Brits), who have nothing to do with the Middle East & had minimal contact with Muslims. They can't restore lands which they never had in the first place!!! How beautifully defensive.
THREE, a third of the population of the Middle East then was Christian, & another quarter descendant from native Christians who converted. So, according to you Franks invading lands across the continent & taking it from its natives is defensive restoration...?! What a psycho!
FOUR, for allegedly coming to save Christians, the crusaders massacred them without discrimination: Muslim, Christian, Jew, man, woman & child – all massacred. Not even Orthodox Christians of Byzantine were spared. The Fourth Crusade saw the sack of Constantinople & the massacre of its people.
FIVE, the evil of the Crusades is not so much in the invasion itself, rather in its brutality & atrociousness. 3 million people were massacred in the region, a quarter of its population, in the most cruel & barbaric ways. Genocide, cannibalism, torture, pillage, impalement, rape...etc.

- Here are some snippets of how that went, enjoy:
".... On the morning of December 12, the garrison negotiated with Bohemond, who promised them safe conduct if they surrendered. The Muslims surrendered, but the crusaders immediately began to massacre the population..... I shudder to tell that many of our people, harassed by the madness of excessive hunger, cut pieces from the buttocks of the Saracens already dead there, which they cooked, but when it was not yet roasted enough by the fire, they devoured it with savage mouth.... Albert of Aix remarked that "the Christians did not shrink from eating not only killed Turks or Saracens, but even creeping dogs..."
"[our men] were killing and slaying even to the Temple of Solomon, where the slaughter was so great that our men waded in blood up to their ankles..." " in the Temple and porch of Solomon men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins." "In this temple 10,000 were killed. Indeed, if you had been there you would have seen our feet coloured to our ankles with the blood of the slain. But what more shall I relate? None of them were left alive; neither women nor children were spared."
"the Crusaders systematically violated the city's [Constantinople] holy sanctuaries, destroying or stealing all they could lay hands on; nothing was spared, not even the tombs of the emperors inside the St Apostles church. The civilian population of Constantinople were subject to the Crusaders' ruthless lust for spoils and glory; thousands of them were killed in cold blood. Women, including nuns, were raped by the Crusader army, which also sacked churches, monasteries and convents. The very altars of these churches were smashed and torn to pieces for their gold and marble by the warriors."
#21
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Stephen
Islam is an internal data construct.

And as such, not to be feared.


People who would wish you serious harm are to be feared.

Which might be anyone, including a labelled psychopathic theist derived of any internal data construct, or any ideological megalomaniac, or  even just a random kid with a gun.


And for sure, a collection of conditioned nutcases is to be avoided.

Though it does not follow that all people who label theistically, are necessarily ideological nutcases.


#22
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
Though it does not follow that all people who label theistically, are necessarily ideological nutcases.

This smacks of those well rehearsed  sayings "not all Muslims" and "only a tiny minority," which I have covered on this forum sometime ago, Vic lad.

Where does all this radicalism come from—including the 8% of Muslims worldwide who now support ISIS?


Considering this is  8% of 1.6 Billion Muslims "worldwide" which sound very tiny until it is converted into figures and words, this then amounts to 128000000 or One Hundred & Twenty Eight Million Muslims or "ideological nutcases" who support Islamic State which is by no means a "tiny minority".  And I am sure anyone running for government office wouldn't turn their noses up to this "tiny minority" on election day.


#23
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,085
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
This smacks of those well rehearsed  sayings "not all Muslims" and "only a tiny minority," which I have covered on this forum sometime ago, Vic lad.

Where does all this radicalism come from—including the 8% of Muslims worldwide who now support ISIS?


Considering this is  8% of 1.6 Billion Muslims "worldwide" which sound very tiny until it is converted into figures and words, this then amounts to 128000000 or One Hundred & Twenty Eight Million Muslims or "ideological nutcases" who support Islamic State which is by no means a "tiny minority".  And I am sure anyone running for government office wouldn't turn their noses up to this "tiny minority" on election day.
- Aside from this fake news nonsense you're spouting, the US literally caused the deaths of 1000 times more people than ISIS across the globe, yet here you are supporting it... Are you insane?! By the way, ISIS is a CIA faction, always there to do their bidding... 



#24
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Stephen
A Zedku for Stephen.


American led war on terror.

What was that all about?

Well...A knee jerk reaction to Twin Towers.

But was is solely that?

Though, if you go around the World killing people, you inevitably radicalise opinion.

Works both ways.

And most people become only interested in their side of the argument.

Of course radicalising the masses, is the work of the power hungry few.

Same on both sides.

Methodology variable.

Enforced belief in an archaic religious system being but one method.

Conditioned self righteousness is perhaps another.

Humans don't change much.

Though material evolution carries on apace.

A sort of underlying inevitability.

Maybe.
Topic's author
#25
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine
the middle east was ruled by the roman empire before islam ever existed in case you didn't know
=================================================
muhammad freeing the people of Banu al-Mustaliq totally doesn't sound like marry me or your entire clan will remain slaves -totally not blackmail-
==============================================
muhammad freeing the people of mecca ?
they are his direct relatives , even muhammad wouldn't let his antes and uncles end up becoming sex slaves to his followers 
=================================================
and please enlighten me to what those your right hands possess(slaves/war captives) means ?
Topic's author
#26
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine
let me guess , Islam is a faction of Catholics that was created by the catholic church to destroy Judaism ? right Yassine ?
since we're mentioning conspiracy theories  I thought I should mention this one since I kept hearing it a lot 
nearly from every non catholic Christian I ever argued with , they usually think I'm a muslim because of my name
#27
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,085
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Lunar108
the middle east was ruled by the roman empire before islam ever existed in case you didn't know
- Only a third* of the Middle East. How old are you?! 


muhammad freeing the people of Banu al-Mustaliq totally doesn't sound like marry me or your entire clan will remain slaves -totally not blackmail-
- The very link you're sourcing contradicts what you're saying!!!
She said: Messenger of Allah, I am Juwayriyyah daughter of [the chief] [...]. I have fallen to the lot of Thabit and I have entered into an agreement to purchase of my freedom. I have come to you to seek assistance for the purchase of my freedom.
The Messenger of Allah said: Are you inclined to that which is better? She asked: What is that, Messenger of Allah? He replied: I shall pay the price of your freedom on your behalf, and I shall marry you. She said: I shall do this. [...] The people then heard that the Messenger of Allah had married Juwayriyyah. They released the captives in their possession and set them free...

- Just imagine the USA doing what the Prophet (pbuh) did to the POWs they're holding; Give them the option to buy their freedom, & even assist them in that transaction, & then go as far as to release all POWs with a marriage alliance! LOL! I'm just kidding, as if that's ever gunna happen! Fortunately for Banu Mustalaq they did not attempt to attack the West, lest they'd be wiped or rotten underground. We all know the terrible things the West does to POWs of other countries; 700k German POWs enslaved in forced-labour to death, dozens of thousands held in Guantanamo bay & dozens of other prisons under the most gruesome torture & abuse... Appalling! 


muhammad freeing the people of mecca?
they are his direct relatives , even muhammad wouldn't let his antes and uncles end up becoming sex slaves to his followers
- I don't blame you, having such a sick mentality must be hard to live with. Maybe you see everything that moves as a sexual adventure, IDK! Maybe it's just that deep of hate. The people of Mecca abused, tortured, maimed, burned, pillaged, blockaded, chained, starved, killed... the Prophet (pbuh) & his companions. Despite all that, when the praised Muhammed (pbuh) took Mecca & had them in his hands & the best opportunity to enact the perfect justice, instead he showed the most divine mercy & said: 'There is no blame on you today. Go, for you are free'.

- Just imagine -in a parallel universe- a leader of a Western country, say the US, doing what the Prophet (pbuh) did to their enemies, say pardoning the Japanese for attacking & killing their people... Wouldn't that be a wonderful world! Sadly, we know in reality the US used Japanese internment camps to cage their own innocent civilians for committing the unforgivable crime of sharing the same race with the people they are bombing...


and please enlighten me to what those your right hands possess(slaves/war captives) means ?
- I think the author of the link you just sent me does an OK job:
"One thing is clear: the phrase conveys a conception of slavery that is not seen in any of the other slave systems in existence at the time the Qurʾan was revealed. Its use in the Qurʾan expresses a recognition that slavery, and the welfare of the enslaved, are among God’s primary concerns about humanity and a special problem in Islam—a problem requiring special solutions. Just as significantly, historical accounts show that the Prophet Muhammad also used the phrase regularly in his pronouncements and discourse concerning slaves and slavery. One instance of his use of the phrase predominates, however, over all the others. Presciently, he raised the issue of slavery when he was on his deathbed, surrounded by many of those who were very close to him. There are conflicting accounts concerning the cause of his last illness but there is no doubt that, at the time he spoke, he was gravely ill and knew he was dying. He was 63 years old and had lived a very full, very satisfying, and amazingly exemplary life. He was certainly aware that the revelations of the Qurʾan and his selection by God to be His last prophet would profoundly change the world. People, even prophets of God, generally do not engage in idle chit-chat when they know they are about to die. What were the Prophet Muhammad’s last words before he passed away? There is no unanimity on this issue either but, according to several very reliable accounts, his last words were: “Prayer, prayer; fear Allah about those whom your right hands possess.”1 This statement shows that the enslaved, their condition, and their treatment by Muslims were of the greatest concern to the Prophet as he lay dying. His counsel that Muslims “fear Allah” in their relationships with “those whom your right hands possess” must have been a weighty and important admonition to those who surrounded him."


let me guess , Islam is a faction of Catholics that was created by the catholic church to destroy Judaism ? right Yassine ?
since we're mentioning conspiracy theories  I thought I should mention this one since I kept hearing it a lot 
nearly from every non catholic Christian I ever argued with , they usually think I'm a muslim because of my name
- It's not too far fetched for a Christian to believe this absurdity, given all the other absurdities they have to suffer just to keep their faith.

Topic's author
#28
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Yassine
he middle east was ruled by the roman empire before islam ever existed in case you didn't know
- Only a third* of the Middle East. How old are you?! 

who did omar took the holy land of Jerusalem  from ?

muhammad freeing the people of Banu al-Mustaliq totally doesn't sound like marry me or your entire clan will remain slaves -totally not blackmail-
- The very link you're sourcing contradicts what you're saying!!!
She said: Messenger of Allah, I am Juwayriyyah daughter of [the chief] [...]. I have fallen to the lot of Thabit and I have entered into an agreement to purchase of my freedom. I have come to you to seek assistance for the purchase of my freedom.
The Messenger of Allah said: Are you inclined to that which is better? She asked: What is that, Messenger of Allah? He replied: I shall pay the price of your freedom on your behalf, and I shall marry you. She said: I shall do this. [...] The people then heard that the Messenger of Allah had married Juwayriyyah. They released the captives in their possession and set them free...

- Just imagine the USA doing what the Prophet (pbuh) did to the POWs they're holding; Give them the option to buy their freedom, & even assist them in that transaction, & then go as far as to release all POWs with a marriage alliance! LOL! I'm just kidding, as if that's ever gunna happen! Fortunately for Banu Mustalaq they did not attempt to attack the West, lest they'd be wiped or rotten underground. We all know the terrible things the West does to POWs of other countries; 700k German POWs enslaved in forced-labour to death, dozens of thousands held in Guantanamo bay & dozens of other prisons under the most gruesome torture & abuse... Appalling! 


the link was provided by you , and it seems like you really hate america , not that I care but I would love to see evidence supporting those empty claims of yours , that would really help

muhammad freeing the people of mecca?
they are his direct relatives , even muhammad wouldn't let his antes and uncles end up becoming sex slaves to his followers
- I don't blame you, having such a sick mentality must be hard to live with. Maybe you see everything that moves as a sexual adventure, IDK! Maybe it's just that deep of hate. The people of Mecca abused, tortured, maimed, burned, pillaged, blockaded, chained, starved, killed... the Prophet (pbuh) & his companions. Despite all that, when the praised Muhammed (pbuh) took Mecca & had them in his hands & the best opportunity to enact the perfect justice, instead he showed the most divine mercy & said: 'There is no blame on you today. Go, for you are free'.

- Just imagine -in a parallel universe- a leader of a Western country, say the US, doing what the Prophet (pbuh) did to their enemies, say pardoning the Japanese for attacking & killing their people... Wouldn't that be a wonderful world! Sadly, we know in reality the US used Japanese internment camps to cage their own innocent civilians for committing the unforgivable crime of sharing the same race with the people they are bombing...
they were his very own clan and his direct relatives , also all those claims of muhammad getting tortured , maimed , burned , pillaged ,,,,,,,,,,,,etc came from muhammad -very unreliable

muhammad greeted by a stone
I recognise the stone in Mecca which used to pay me salutations before my advent as a Prophet and I recognise that even now.


Reference: Sahih Muslim 2277
In-book reference : Book 43, Hadith 2
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 30, Hadith 5654
--------------------------------
muhammad and crying trees
The Prophet (ﷺ) used to stand by a tree or a date-palm on Friday. Then an Ansari woman or man said. "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall we make a pulpit for you?" He replied, "If you wish." So they made a pulpit for him and when it was Friday, he proceeded towards the pulpit (for delivering the sermon). The datepalm cried like a child! The Prophet (ﷺ) descended (the pulpit) and embraced it while it continued moaning like a child being quietened. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "It was crying for (missing) what it used to hear of religious knowledge given near to it."

Reference
 : Sahih al-Bukhari 3584
In-book reference : Book 61, Hadith 93
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 56, Hadith 784
----------------------------------------------------
food talking
We used to consider miracles as Allah's Blessings, but you people consider them to be a warning. Once we were with Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) on a journey, and we ran short of water. He said, "Bring the water remaining with you." The people brought a utensil containing a little water. He placed his hand in it and said, "Come to the blessed water, and the Blessing is from Allah." I saw the water flowing from among the fingers of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) , and no doubt, we heard the meal glorifying Allah, when it was being eaten (by him).

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3579
In-book reference : Book 61, Hadith 88
USC-MSA web (English) reference: Vol. 4, Book 56, Hadith 779
--------------------------------------------------------------------

#29
Yassine
Yassine's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,085
3
2
6
Yassine's avatar
Yassine
3
2
6
-->
@Lunar108
who did omar took the holy land of Jerusalem  from ?
- Sigh... Here we go, a 1/3rd of the Middle East was under Roman control, a 1/3rd under Sassanid control (Persian), & 1/3rd under Arab control.


the link was provided by you , and it seems like you really hate america
- Not really. I hate injustice.


, not that I care but I would love to see evidence supporting those empty claims of yours , that would really help
- Which claims...? The one who keeps making claims right & left without even knowing the first thing about the subject is you buddy.


they were his very own clan and his direct relatives
- They weren't. Quraysh is 14,000 people. His direct relatives in the town are less than 10... your point? His own uncle Abu Lahab would follow the Prophet (pbuh) in his preaching calling him insane so people run from him, & would put twigs in front of his door so he that he gets injured when he comes out... & all sorts of abuse. 


, also all those claims of muhammad getting tortured , maimed , burned , pillaged ,,,,,,,,,,,,etc came from muhammad -very unreliable
- Over 2300 companions report over 50,000 accounts of close to 21,000 unique event of the beloved Prophet (pbuh)'s life. He wasn't maimed or burned, or killed (obviously) but his companions were. He suffered the other stuff though.


muhammad and crying trees
The Prophet (ﷺ) used to stand by a tree or a date-palm on Friday. Then an Ansari woman or man said. "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall we make a pulpit for you?" He replied, "If you wish." So they made a pulpit for him and when it was Friday, he proceeded towards the pulpit (for delivering the sermon). The datepalm cried like a child! The Prophet (ﷺ) descended (the pulpit) and embraced it while it continued moaning like a child being quietened. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "It was crying for (missing) what it used to hear of religious knowledge given near to it."
- This story is reported by 17 of the beloved Prophet (pbuh)'s companions, through over 390 chains of narration. Your point?


food talking
We used to consider miracles as Allah's Blessings, but you people consider them to be a warning. Once we were with Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) on a journey, and we ran short of water. He said, "Bring the water remaining with you." The people brought a utensil containing a little water. He placed his hand in it and said, "Come to the blessed water, and the Blessing is from Allah." I saw the water flowing from among the fingers of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) , and no doubt, we heard the meal glorifying Allah, when it was being eaten (by him).
- This is also reported by 17 of his companions, through over 420 chains of narration. So?




261 days later

#30
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,006
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Lunar108
-> @Yassine
let me guess , Islam is a faction of Catholics that was created by the catholic church to destroy Judaism ? right Yassine ?
since we're mentioning conspiracy theories  I thought I should mention this one since I kept hearing it a lot 
nearly from every non catholic Christian I ever argued with , they usually think I'm a muslim because of my name
Judaism was destroyed by the  Romans in 70AD when the Roman’s after crucifying Jesus went on to destroy the holy temple, destroyed Jerusalem and slaughtered the Jews people.
The Romans replaced Judaism with the Roman Catholic Church. By 325 CE Christianity was adopted by armament as the state religion.
Islam was created in the 7th century. Long after Judaism was reduced to a relic of the past.