What makes an atheist obsessed with religion?

#91

Mopac

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

Mopac

11.14.2018 08:24PM

3

4

7

11.14.2018 08:24PM

-->

@Stephen

The Church has never recognized The so called Gospel of Thomas as being legitimate. In fact, it was well understood even in ancient times as a fabrication of heretics.

Your idea of truthful is anything that undermines the faith. Gnosticism is a heresy, Stephen. For good reason. Knowledge is a created thing.

Also, even back in ancient times the so called gnostics couldn't agree on anything. The one thing they all had in common was that their faith was in what they thought was knowledge, their own understanding, and not The Truth.

The Roman Church is a renegade church. What makes more sense, that 4 patriarchs rebelled against 1 or that 1 patriarch rebelled against 4? The New Testament is written in Greek not Latin. They corrupted the Nicene Creed. They have killed millions of Christians. Hell, the first martyr of Orthodoxy in the United States was tortured and killed by Romans for not submitting to the pope.

Why is western Christianity so broken up and confused? Protestantism is a reaction against the evil Roman Church, and they haven't found their way back to Orthodoxy yet.

And no other Church has been tortured and oppressed like the orthodox church. If they aren't getting killed by Romans, it's Muslims, and if it isn't Muslims, it is atheistic communists.

The church of martyrs. Over 20 million Orthodox martyrs in the last century. Who cares?

And we also believe that God is the judge of man. There are many protestants and even Roman Catholics who receive the grace of Christ. Even those who are not Christian, God may show them grace.

But the Church that has been handed down since the days of the apostles is Orthodox Catholicism. There is a lot there too, because this isn't a 200 or even 500 year old church. This Church goes all the way back to the apostles.

And while The Church in Rome was declaring their Pope to be Vicar of Christ, who is beyond criticism, infallible, and alone is worthy to have his feet kissed by emperors, performing their mass in languages that the common people couldn't understand...

The Orthodox Church was doing none of these things. Since the beginning, liturgy was performed in common vernacular, church and state were seperate domains, the patriarchs were understood to be human beings, not gods, and the only king over Christendom and indeed the while world is Jesus Christ.

But even then, even though I am an unashamed advocate of the Orthodox Church, God knows who are His, and The Church is not merely a human institution, but The Body of Christ, by and in whom are all things whether on Earth or in Heaven.

And Jesus went to the cross to save such as yourself. Jesus loves you, and so do I.

#92

Mopac

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

Mopac

11.14.2018 08:28PM

3

4

7

11.14.2018 08:28PM

-->

@Polytheist-Witch

Well, that is not righteous discernment. Even if they viewed all theists as being the same, which I doubt, it would not be fitting for a lover of God to embrace unrighteousness discernment as well. I will not judge all atheists as the same.

#93

Polytheist-Witch

Debates: 1

Posts: 4,188

3

6

Polytheist-Witch

11.14.2018 09:02PM

3

6

11.14.2018 09:02PM

-->

@Mopac

Why wouldn't they view all theists the same. They think theists are delusional, liars, mentally ill. Why would you be those and not me?

#94

Mopac

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

Mopac

11.14.2018 11:02PM

3

4

7

11.14.2018 11:02PM

-->

@Polytheist-Witch

Just as everyone who professes Jesus is different, so is everyone who denies God or gods.

I know my God is The Truth, which is how I know that atheism against this God is an invalid position. I know that people adopt invalid positions for different reasons.

I know that gods are created things, which is why I do not put my faith in them. I am a monotheist. Do gods exist? Certainly in some sense, but I only recognize One God as ultimately being sovereign. The Truth. So even though you and I are both theists, I am not a pagan, I do not worship created things as gods.

And forgive me if I am presumptuous about what you believe, because polytheists tend to have a lot of variation between them.

#95

Polytheist-Witch

Debates: 1

Posts: 4,188

3

6

Polytheist-Witch

11.14.2018 11:08PM

3

6

11.14.2018 11:08PM

-->

@Mopac

You worship a liar and are a bigot for it

#96

disgusted

Debates: 0

Posts: 4,959

2

3

disgusted

11.14.2018 11:17PM

2

3

11.14.2018 11:17PM

-->

@Mopac

List the atheists you know who were converted by atheists.

#97

Mopac

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

Mopac

11.15.2018 12:20AM

3

4

7

11.15.2018 12:20AM

-->

@Polytheist-Witch

I worship The Truth.

And sometimes loving people involves telling them what they don't want to hear. The Truth. I am called to suffer the iniquities and bear the sins of the wicked, not hate them.

I love you too.

#98

Stephen

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,615

3

2

Stephen

11.15.2018 08:48AM

3

2

11.15.2018 08:48AM

The Church has never recognized The so called Gospel of Thomas as being legitimate. In fact, it was well understood even in ancient times as a fabrication of heretics.

Yes and I am sure had "the church" been aware of the gnostic scriptures they would have condemned then to the fire along with the millions of others. Thank god for the dead sea scrolls and the Nag Hammadi collection: We would never had known what "THE CHURCH" WAS TRYING TO HIDE , NOW WOULD WE.

#99

Polytheist-Witch

Debates: 1

Posts: 4,188

3

6

Polytheist-Witch

11.15.2018 02:25PM

3

6

11.15.2018 02:25PM

-->

@Mopac

Nope.

#100

Mopac

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

Mopac

11.15.2018 02:54PM

3

4

7

11.15.2018 02:54PM

-->

@Stephen

The church was aware of the so called "gnostic" scriptures, yes, even back when it was first written, and that is how they know, for example, that the gospel according to Thomas was not written by Thomas.

This stuff is not as new or revolutionary as you think it is. Neo-gnosticism is just as much of an error as gnosticism back then.

#101

Stephen

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,615

3

2

Stephen

11.15.2018 04:21PM

3

2

11.15.2018 04:21PM

-->

@Mopac

The church was aware of the so called"gnostic" scriptures, yes, even back when it was first written,

Some were known I agree, but thousands were not. The Dead Sea scrolls and the Nag Hammadi were recent finds in the scheme of things. I believe ( I haven't checked recently) that nearly all of the 900 DSS have been deciphered and translated. and the Nag Hammadi collection is revealing more interesting stories by the day.

and that is how they know, for example, that the gospel according to Thomas was not written by Thomas.

Silly clown. How do "they know"? It is not known with any certainty who wrote any single part of the Bible. The believed author are pure educated guesses at best and shots in the dark at worst. Then there are the hundreds of complete Gnostic gospels. Gospel of Mary, Judas and Jesus himself for examples.

This stuff is not as new or revolutionary as you think it is.

I know. This is why we living today can read these extremely rare and revealing critical scriptures without fear of being burned at the stake

Neo-gnosticism is just as much of an error as gnosticism back then.

As is any of the hundreds of different versions of the “official” Christian bible. Do you want examples of the thousands of errors contained in the “holy work” known tous as the Bible? And will you be able to answer any questions about these biblical errors, without repeating your mantra that "god is truth" for every reply to these questions?

#102

Mopac

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

Mopac

11.15.2018 04:39PM

3

4

7

11.15.2018 04:39PM

-->

@Stephen

It's kind of hard to fake these things when the orthodox churches all trace themselves back to the apostles. Right now it might be harder because of how displaced we are in time, but the gnostic writings, even specifically the gospel of thomas were written about fairly close to the beginnings of the church.

The Orthodox Church has kept track of these things fairly well.

And Stephen, you have to believe me when I say that your understanding of scripture is wrong, and it is impossible to correct you because you don't accept the teaching of the church as valid. In fact, you seem to think the church is up to no good.

Well, that is why I don't correct you anymore, because you don't believe me when I give you answers. You seem to already believe you know.

That is what gnosticism is at its core. Knowingism.

Gnosticism is a heresy.

"God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud."

#103

Mopac

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

Mopac

11.15.2018 04:43PM

3

4

7

11.15.2018 04:43PM

The orthodox church uses greek texts as its bible, and it is closer to the textus receptus of the King James than the modern texts which are the product of "textual criticism".

#104

Stephen

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,615

3

2

Stephen

11.15.2018 04:57PM

3

2

11.15.2018 04:57PM

-->

@Mopac

t's kind of hard to fake these things when the orthodox churches all trace themselves back to the apostles.

What are you talking about?

but the gnostic writings, even specifically the gospel of thomas were written about fairly close to the beginnings of the church.

Yes , and?

The Orthodox Church has kept track of these things fairly well.

Oh I see and it was the Church who discovered these ancient text hidden in the desert was it. Stop being silly.

And Stephen, you have to believe me when I say that your understanding of scripture is wrong,

I don’t have to believe you or anyone else.

and it is impossible to correct you because you don't accept the teaching of the church as valid.

I don’t accept the scriptures to be anywhere reliable.

In fact, you seem to think the church is up to no good.

It is the scriptures I have a problem with. I Don’t give two flying pigs about the church.

Well, that is why I don't correct me anymore,

NO! You cannot correct these contradictions is what you mean. You cannot explain the simple questions that children ask. Because it is simply impossible for you to do so.

because you don't believe me when I give you answers.

Telling me “god is truth “doesn’t quite answer questions such as - why didn’t Jesus simply eradicate all leprosy instead of curing just a few lepers. I can answer that question where you cannot.

You seem to already believe you know.

More than you

That is what gnosticism is at itscore. Knowingism.

I know.

Gnosticism is a heresy.

opinion

"God gives grace to the humble,but resists the proud."

Irrelevant.

#105

Mopac

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

Mopac

11.15.2018 05:00PM

3

4

7

11.15.2018 05:00PM

-->

@Stephen

Well, that's unfortunate.

#106

Stephen

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,615

3

2

Stephen

11.15.2018 05:09PM

3

2

11.15.2018 05:09PM

-->

@Mopac

Well, that's unfortunate.

Opinion. And you haven't even attempted to answer the question of a child above. You keep insisting I do knot know anything so explain this simple question and maybe we could start a dialogue of some sort.

Why didn’t Jesus simply eradicate all leprosy instead of curing just a few lepers?

#107

Mopac

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

Mopac

11.15.2018 06:42PM

3

4

7

11.15.2018 06:42PM

-->

@Stephen

Because your arbitrary sense of personal aesthetics has very little to do with what is truly moral.

#108

Stephen

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,615

3

2

Stephen

11.15.2018 06:55PM

3

2

11.15.2018 06:55PM

-->

@Mopac

STEPHEN ASKED: Why didn’t Jesus simply eradicate all leprosy instead of curing just a few lepers?

Mopac RESPONDED: "Because your arbitrary sense of personal aesthetics has very little to do with what is truly moral".

We shouldn't laugh, put i can understand why some christians do invite mockery and ridicule.

#109

Mopac

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

Mopac

11.15.2018 07:03PM

3

4

7

11.15.2018 07:03PM

-->

@Stephen

You mock and scoff, but this is a legitimate answer to you question.

And unfortunately, it seems that this is the response you always give.

#110

Stephen

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,615

3

2

Stephen

11.16.2018 06:13AM

3

2

11.16.2018 06:13AM

You mock and scoff, but this is a legitimate answer to you question.

How does this

Mopac wrote: "Because your arbitrary sense of personal aesthetics has very little to do with what is truly moral".

answer this? >

Stephen asked: Why didn’t Jesus simply eradicate all leprosy instead of curing just a few lepers?

Do you not see how deluded you have become, when silly replies like those you return go nowhere near answering a simple question that a child would ask.. You are simply incapable.

This question is obviously far too uncomfortable for you as you can see the silliness of the curing of lepers story falling apart in front of your own eyes.

#111

Mopac

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

Mopac

11.16.2018 06:19AM

3

4

7

11.16.2018 06:19AM

-->

@Stephen

If you don't like that answer, here is another.

That isn't what happened.

Now here is a question for you. Who are you to judge?

#112

keithprosser

Debates: 0

Posts: 3,052

3

keithprosser

11.16.2018 06:45AM

3

11.16.2018 06:45AM

-->

@Mopac

Jesus cured no lepers. A story where he eradicated leprosy wouldn't be credible - not when there were so many lepers still around! But a story about curing a leper is not quite so obviously false, hence that what we get.

#113

keithprosser

Debates: 0

Posts: 3,052

3

keithprosser

11.16.2018 06:46AM

3

11.16.2018 06:46AM

-->

@Stephen

Jesus cured no lepers. A story where he eradicated leprosy wouldn't be credible - not when there were so many lepers still around! But a story about curing a leper is not quite so obviously false, hence that what we get.

#114

Stephen

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,615

3

2

Stephen

11.16.2018 06:47AM

3

2

11.16.2018 06:47AM

-->

@Mopac

If you don't like that answer, here is another.

That isn't what happened.

Then tell me what did really happen and why the bible doesn't say what "really happened"?

Now here is a question for you. Who are you to judge?

Judge what? I am judging no one. I am scrutinising the scriptures and presenting what I find. this is debate (that you don't like) this is discussion (that you do not like)

#115

Stephen

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,615

3

2

Stephen

11.16.2018 06:51AM

3

2

11.16.2018 06:51AM

-->