Freedom from vs. Freedom too

Author: secularmerlin

Posts

Total: 9
Topic's author
#1
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
What good is freedom from handcuffs without the freedom too use your hands? 

What good is freedom from imprisonment without the freedom too move about freely?

What good is freedom from tyranny without the freedom too excercise your will?

What good is freedom from forced labor if you are not free too define the terms under which you are willing to labor?

There is no freedom too without freedom from but there is no true freedom without the freedom too. 
#2
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,087
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@secularmerlin
What would a society be like with total freedom of the individual?

Anarchic I suppose.

And I don't fancy anarchy much.

British society is currently, just fine by me.

I work, I have a niche, and I am sufficiently content.


Perhaps the problem isn't a lack of freedom, but the bondage of over expectation.
Topic's author
#3
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@zedvictor4
IF your freedoms impinge upon mine THEN  I am not free. 

IF my freedoms impinge upon yours THEN you are not free. 

THEREFORE your freedom too move your hand can and does end at the tip of my nose. 
#4
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
The 1st law of thermodynamics implies that freedom is a mythological construct created in a closed system.

It's the reason why the Chinese saying: "May you be granted all you wish" is considered a terrible curse.
Topic's author
#5
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Greyparrot
The argument about mythical freewill aside is liberty not preferable to constraint? 
#6
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,087
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@secularmerlin
#3

A tad abstruse.

Needs exemplifying and clarifying.
#7
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@secularmerlin
What good is freedom from handcuffs without the freedom to use your hands? 
I'm confused, since if your hands are paralysed, I guess the only benefit is to have better, more fluid balance due to arms that are either side of you.

What good is freedom from imprisonment without the freedom to move about freely?
I am confused, if you can't move freely then you are imprisoned. I am assuming this means you are less imprisoned in the latter scenario and therin lies the answer.

What good is freedom from tyranny without the freedom to excercise your will?
Freedom from the tyranny is the good, you just wrote it.

What good is freedom from forced labor if you are not free to define the terms under which you are willing to labor?
Freedom from forced labour is the benefit, you just wrote it.

There is no freedom to without freedom from but there is no true freedom without the freedom to. 
You need to learn 'too' vs 'to', I corrected you in my quotes.

If the freedom from is the necessary step towards the freedom to, therein lies the benefit. You are asking questions that all have blatant answers.
#8
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@secularmerlin
IF your freedoms impinge upon mine THEN  I am not free. 
You could be free in many other ways, just not specifically free from the said impingement.

IF my freedoms impinge upon yours THEN you are not free. 
You just said the same statement twice and swapped the nouns.

THEREFORE your freedom to move your hand can and does end at the tip of my nose. 
Metaphorical rhetoric with no way to argue for or against it.
#9
Athias
Athias's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 3,192
3
3
9
Athias's avatar
Athias
3
3
9
-->
@secularmerlin
Are you contrasting the two as this thread's title suggests? Or are you arguing that one is the premise for the other? I'm not entirely sure of the point you're attempting to convey.