Trump’s Enduring Popularity

Author: cristo71

Posts

Total: 27
Topic's author
#1
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,563
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
Back in pre election 2016, a (foreign) brother-in-law asked me what was up with Trump’s popularity in the US. I replied, “I don’t fully understand it, but whether you agree with it or not, we as a nation need to understand what the appeal is and why it’s there”— and I said that assuming he was going to lose. That much greater the need to understand his appeal after he won! To the contrary, his opposition just made continual efforts to unseat him rather than comprehend what was happening.

After his election, his presidency, and his departure from office, I cannot help but observe that over half the nation still does not have a clue as to why Trump has an enduring popularity with so much of the nation. I believe his opposition ignores his appeal at their own peril.

Now, with the added advantage of hindsight, why do you think a (former) president such as Trump has such intense loyalty among his supporters?
#2
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,638
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

The climate in Germany during the 1930s was anger. Adolf Hitler promised to make Germany great again, and he gave them a scapegoat. Which group is our scapegoat now? It is now immigrants. Trump's first wife said he kept a book of Hitler's speeches on a stand next to their bed.



Topic's author
#3
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,563
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@FLRW
Assuming your summarization as true, this administration’s response to that anger among the populace is to open the borders even more and hope for the best, which is what I mean about the dangerous failure of Trump’s opposition to properly analyze his appeal.
#4
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,675
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
unfortunately, popularity isnt enough...
#5
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
He’s beloved by the base because he’s the first politician In a long time to give them a taste of what they wanted. Imagine being a conservative Republican and getting…George W. Bush. Trump’s star is slowly fading and we will see if it can fade enough in time…the Republican Party has to decide if it wants someone with a vision for the future in 2024 or if they want someone to endlessly relitigate the 2020 election. 

#6
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@cristo71
Trump grabs every 3rd rail issue in politics because he can. When he is the only voice, he has a monopoly on the solution. That is how he used his business sense to get into politics. He saw an opening and a way to corner the market in politics by monopolizing issues nobody else would previously dare address.

Even today, in a post Trump world, Washington DC sends very few representatives (traditional politicians) out to discuss the 3rd rail topics of immigration, China, Afghanistan, Israel, corporate crony monopolies in the media, education and prison systems, the  weaponizing of the FBI and IRS.

So it doesn't really matter what Trump is saying or how stupid it actually is. If he is the ONLY one in the arena, the voters have no other alternative in the marketplace of ideas simply because no other politician is willing to discuss 3rd rail problems in America; mostly due to lobbying pressures from powerful entrenched groups in Washington DC

We won't likely see anyone that free from DC lobbying pressure ever again in our lifetimes before the great crash.
Topic's author
#7
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,563
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@Greyparrot
Trump grabs every 3rd rail issue in politics because he can. When he is the only voice, he has a monopoly on the solution. That is how he used his business sense to get into politics. He saw an opening and a way to corner the market in politics by monopolizing issues nobody else would previously dare address.
Excellent insight. Too bad I have yet to see the loyal Trump opposition express anything like it. Well, too bad for the loyal Trump opposition and the nation as a whole by extension…


#8
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@cristo71
Now, with the added advantage of hindsight, why do you think a (former) president such as Trump has such intense loyalty among his supporters?

racism.
#9
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@cristo71
Excellent insight. Too bad I have yet to see the loyal Trump opposition express anything like it. Well, too bad for the loyal Trump opposition and the nation as a whole by extension…

And just to be clear, a lot of his ideas are really dumb and his moral compass is weird, but his policies were objectively good for the country, and I have no problem admitting that. 

Just like I have no problem admitting Bill Clinton governed the nation well despite his sexual conquests. The idea that a president needs to be some paragon of virtue is only a recent construct since Trump's policies really couldn't be argued due to the 3rd rail problem.

#10
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,087
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@thett3
Is the Republican Party really about vision?

Or is the Republican Party about looking backwards?
#11
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@cristo71
I think there are a few things going on here.

First is the evolution of capitalism. As great as it has been for us and the world, it has reached its peak. The fact is in a capitalist society wealth begets wealth, so the gap between the top and bottom continues to expand. The bottom continues to grow and those at the bottom continually feel like they have no real shot, which turns into anger. On the political right this tends to be directed at immigrants, on the left it tends to manifest through claims of racism. I think most are missing the point.

The second goes back to Ronald Reagan and his “government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem” philosophy. This philosophy is incoherent. If there is one central purpose of a government, it’s literally to solve society’s problems.

The incoherence of this philosophy has run its natural course. How do you as a politician run for office when your philosophy is that the institution you are trying to be a part of is itself the problem? You can’t run on accomplishments because that’s self defeating to your entire message, so the only thing you can do is claim you’re going there to be a bull in a China shop. This leads to nothing but chaos in government which in turn reinforces people’s anger.

This is where candidates who have no experience or qualifications became a featured selling point on the right. It’s also what eventually lead to the death of expertise. It’s a very tough line to cross for actual qualified republicans. They can’t possibly make sense out of all this so when they try it comes off as disingenuous, because it is.

Enter Donald Trump.

Trump is a perfect creation for this time. He has sold himself as a successful billionaire so people think he is competent, yet he’s one of the dumbest people in DC so he can sell the BS that right wing voters believe without  coming off as disingenuous. He’s a perfect storm.

In Trump they see something they’ve never seen in a politician… themselves. They don’t know anything about NATO or why it matters, well Trump doesn’t either. They don’t want any more Muslims coming in and don’t see why we can’t just ban them, well neither does Trump. They can’t stand the fact that they have to accept when they lose an election, well neither does Trump. And the guy is a big success so he must know what he’s talking about.

Whether it’s ignorance, misogyny, racism, cruelty, narcissism… Trump is the first politician to make these people feel like they don’t have to be better, and they will be forever loyal to him for it.
#12
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
If there is one central purpose of a government, it’s literally to solve society’s problems.

Well that can't ever possibly work in a Democracy because the people electing the problem solvers have no clue themselves.

Otherwise they would have already solved it on an individual level.
#13
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
I don’t know anything about real estate law, that doesn’t stop me from choosing a competent attorney.

#14
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
And what do you mean solve it on a personal level? The point of government is to solve the issues the free market cannot solve on their own. If you have a company making their profits off of not paying for waste disposal and instead using the towns drinking  supply as their trash can, who solves that issue?
#15
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
I don’t know anything about real estate law, that doesn’t stop me from choosing a competent attorney.

And how would you know? Credentials? Exactly. That's the problem. 
#16
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@zedvictor4
Is the Republican Party really about vision?

Or is the Republican Party about looking backwards?
Not really, it mostly serves as an empty vessel for people opposed to leftism without a firm vision of its own. Part of the reason why recent GOP Presidents have been so mediocre. But there are certainly non leftist people out there (like me) who have a vision of the future, and would like to see things arranged just so. I'm hoping that it eventually morphs into something less pathetic and more compelling 
Topic's author
#17
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,563
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@Double_R
In Trump they see something they’ve never seen in a politician… themselves. They don’t know anything about NATO or why it matters, well Trump doesn’t either. They don’t want any more Muslims coming in and don’t see why we can’t just ban them, well neither does Trump. They can’t stand the fact that they have to accept when they lose an election, well neither does Trump. And the guy is a big success so he must know what he’s talking about.
This is definitely a part of it. It gives him an effortless authenticity to his supporters. It reminds me of a rally where Trump was bragging about how unpresidential he was. He embraced it. “Unpresidential they say. How fun would it be if I tried to be presidential? This is me being presidential *walks as if he has a rod up his wazzoo*”

#18
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
And how would you know? Credentials? Exactly. That's the problem. 
Credentials is the problem? Tell me more…
#19
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
It's the reason Biden is here for 3 more years. Credentials.

50 Years of "Problems solved"

Only it's a fake resume, and people don't know any better.
#20
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
So if you suddenly became the sole shareholder of a Fortune 500 company and needed a new CEO, you would hire someone with no credentials?

And I’m also curious, what were your thoughts in 2016 when it came to the prospects of Trump and how the economy would do under his handling? If you thought he would do well handling the multitude of problems every president faces… why?
#21
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,638
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

I have to admit that I used to think that Trump's IQ was 73 like I read in an article. But now I see that he was smart enough to change political parties to one that would nominate him for President even though he was married to someone born in a Communist country and would probably give the Launch Codes to Putin. I know estimate his IQ at 97 which is the average of the Republican party.


#22
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
And I’m also curious, what were your thoughts in 2016 when it came to the prospects of Trump and how the economy would do under his handling?

I honestly didn't expect the economy to do well under Trump. I kinda expected more of the same from clinton-bush-bama years. That was just a surprising bonus.

you would hire someone with no credentials?

No, I just wouldn't allow someone with no education on how to run a company to hire a ceo. The last person I would ask is some homeless man in San Fran who they thought could fix all their problems.

#23
MarkWebberFan
MarkWebberFan's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 291
1
2
6
MarkWebberFan's avatar
MarkWebberFan
1
2
6
He's popular, like many other leaders before him. I think it's easy to be enamored with authority figures especially if a country is undergoing crisis. Churchill retained a strong support base despite being inept in government. He remained popular precisely because he was presiding over an uncertain, anxious time in history (i.e. WW2, cold war etc). In times of uncertainty, I think people rarely look for policy disagreements; they're more interested in a leader's competence levels in handling a crisis.
#24
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
I honestly didn't expect the economy to do well under Trump. I kinda expected more of the same from clinton-bush-bama years. That was just a surprising bonus.
What was, that the economy continued to grow under Trump at the same rate it was growing for the previous 7 years under Obama?

No, I just wouldn't allow someone with no education on how to run a company to hire a ceo.
The question was, if you inherited a Fortune 500 company and were in need of a CEO would you hire someone with no credentials?

What do you mean you would not allow someone without an education to make that decision? Sounds like you’re dancing around the question.

Would you hire someone with no credentials? Yes or no?

#25
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
Would you hire someone with no credentials? Yes or no?

I would immediately sell the company lol.  A fool and their money are soon parted, and I would have no clue who to hire.
#26
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
So to recap, credentials are the problem.

But if you suddenly became the sole shareholder of a large company, your lack of credentials are the problem.

Do I have that right?
#27
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,048
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
Credentials are propaganda.