Amy Klobuchar is a hypocrite

Author: TheUnderdog

Posts

Total: 24
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
Just now from DART, I got an ad that stated that Amy Klobuchar wants to end citizens united


Citizens united is the supreme court case that allowed corruption in the US government.

So why am I calling her a hypocrite?  Because she is very curropt herself.  About $130,000 of the money she raised is from PACs.


She is railing against the corruption and the swamp that she herself is part of.  Typical politician.  Lying to your face about being agreeable and then being the exact thing she thinks is wrong with the country.  This would be like a pro lifer who tells people to not have sex if they don't want a kid ending up having having sex.

What a joke.  Don't trust career politicians like Klobuchar.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,972
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
Citizens United does nothing to stop people from buying Hunter Biden paintings for millions of dollars, book deals, and Clinton foundations.

It's a fucking joke to think Citizens United is the main cause of legal corruption. Corruption comes from power, and the government is extremely powerful.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Greyparrot
The constitution prohibits politicians from receiving money from foreigners, and this should extend to anybody related to them.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,972
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
Constitution hasn't stopped a single dime funneled to Biden through proxies. It hasn't stopped a damn thing.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,972
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
The idea that you can prohibit corruption through fiat is about as ridiculous as our failed attempt at prohibiting alcohol.

The only way to stop the suppliers of alcohol is to reduce the amount of consumers of alcohol.

The only way to stop the suppliers of corruption is to reduce the government consumers of corruption.

Now tell me... what politician drunk on power would vote to limit himself?

None.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Greyparrot
Maybe make an amendment outlawing foreign companies from giving money to politicians or their families so the constitution actually does something about it; the penalty being impeachment and death for treason. Then foreign interference can't legally happen.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Greyparrot
The only way to stop the suppliers of corruption is to reduce the government consumers of corruption.
This can be done by making illegal (politicians follow obvious illegalities more than the citizens do).  Then the politicians have to be punished for corruption.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,972
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
So you're going to go around like an FBI agent smashing the stills and backyard operations....remember how that worked out?
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,972
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
Then the politicians have to be punished for corruption.

Politicians would never vote for this.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Greyparrot
Not with drugs; but with corruption.

People are going to break the law; this is a given.  Otherwise murder would be legal out of the fear that people would do it illegally.  But then you need to punish the people who break laws to reduce corruption's prevalence.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Greyparrot
One president who isn't curropt can make an executive order outlawing corruption and any politician that gets in the way gets called out by the president for it so that politician loses re election.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,972
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
One president who isn't curropt can make an executive order outlawing corruption
EO isn't a Congressional law. Our system doesn't allow for benevolent dictators.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Greyparrot
Executive orders are laws as long as the president is in office.  Once corruption is outlawed, the swamp is drained and politicians can't be curropt until I leave office.  By the time that happens, all the politicians lost their corruption so they would make sense in advocating against corruption since that's the popular position.
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
Just now from DART, I got an ad that stated that Amy Klobuchar wants to end citizens united
Citizens united is the supreme court case that allowed corruption in the US government.
There has always been some corruption in the US Govt.  It is not accurate to say that the SCOTUS allowed corruption but it is accurate to say that corruption increased because of the Citizens United ruling.    In a 5-4 decision, the court ruled that US corporations were super-citizens of the US, enjoying all of the rights and protections of US citizens but owing none of the responsibilities of a US citizens (military service, voting, census, taxpaying, registering foreign transactions, etc)
In effect, Citizens United made all human citizens second-class citizens, elevating corporations (which secretly means their CEO's, COO's, Presidents, etc  96.4% of whom are white and male) to the first-class citizenship.  This allowed  the wealthiest white males to give as much money as they liked  to their preferred candidates while all other  individual citizens, small businesses, unions, private companies, etc. were still restricted as to how much money they could donate.

Studies have shown that the Citizens United ruling gave Republicans an advantage in subsequent elections. One study by political scientists at University of Chicago, Columbia University and the London School of Economics found "that Citizens United increased the GOP's average seat share in the state legislature by five percentage points. That is a large effect—large enough that, were it applied to the past twelve Congresses, partisan control of the House would have switched eight times. In line with a previous study, we also find that the vote share of Republican candidates increased three to four points, on average." A 2016 study in the Journal of Law and Economics found "that Citizens United is associated with an increase in Republicans’ election probabilities in state house races of approximately 4 percentage points overall and 10 or more percentage points in several states. We link these estimates to on-the-ground evidence of significant spending by corporations through channels enabled by Citizens United."  According to a 2020 study, the ruling boosted the electoral success of Republican candidates
As the last true Republican on the court, JP Stevens argued in his blistering dissent, the majority addressed questions not raised by the case and changed the case to give themselves an opportunity to rewrite established law.  Realizing that Republicans were a dying breed, the Republicans on the court changed the election rules to give CEO's more electoral power than any other group.

"At bottom, the Court's opinion is thus a rejection of the common sense of the American people, who have recognized a need to prevent corporations from undermining self government since the founding, and who have fought against the distinctive corrupting potential of corporate electioneering since the days of Theodore Roosevelt. It is a strange time to repudiate that common sense. While American democracy is imperfect, few outside the majority of this Court would have thought its flaws included a dearth of corporate money in politics"
Therefore, most Americans, including all Democratic political candidates, oppose CU as inherently corrupt.

"Opposition to unlimited political spending is neither a liberal nor a conservative issue. In recent surveys, Americans across the political spectrum say there should be limits on the amount of money individuals and corporations can spend on campaigns, that big donors have more influence than others, and that political corruption is the biggest crisis facing the nation. A constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United is backed by 66 percent of Republican voters, "
In 2018 185 Democratic national candidates rejected corporate PAC money as well as 2 Republicans.  In 2020, 155 Democrats and no Republicans refused corporate PAC money.

So why am I calling her a hypocrite?  Because she is very curropt herself.  About $130,000 of the money she raised is from PACs.


She is railing against the corruption and the swamp that she herself is part of.  Typical politician. 
Typical human, more like.  There's plenty of people who think taxes should be simpler or more progressive but who still take advantage of all the tax breaks legally available.  There's many soldier who opposed War in Afghanistan but nevertheless went to fight when ordered. Many doctors chastise every patient who is a smoker they meet while concealing a habit themselves.   In any Democracy, there's a wide gap between political ideals and political realities. 

If Klobachar is "very corrupt" because she took $130,000 in corporate PAC money (I think the actual 2018 number is $1.9 million but about 70% corporate cash) then it necessarily follows that all national Republicans and 90-95% of national Democrats are more corrupt than Klobachar- so why single out one of the least guilty?   Why not focus on the worst offenders, all of whom are Republicans? Donald Trump is the most egregious corporate PAC hog at 3046 times more corrupt contributions than Klobachar but you find no fault.....is that not also hypocrisy?

At least Democrats are representing their constituencies popular sentiment while Republicans take the money even though their voters don't want them to.

Lying to your face about being agreeable and then being the exact thing she thinks is wrong with the country. 
Klobuchar has voted several times to end Corporate PACs and has so far refused to take any corporate PAC money for her 2024 campaign.  This makes her better on the issue than most politicians.  Why not focus on one of worse candidates rather than putting your energy into one of the better ones?

What a joke.  Don't trust career politicians like Klobuchar.
It's not that you're wrong so much as you are starting at the wrong end of the problem.  If you consider taking corporate PAC money legalized bribery, then you should be voting for Democrats who are trying to limit corporate election spending not condemning one of politicians who takes the least corporate money.  And certainly not voting for the Republicans who depend on such corruption to prop up their rapidly shrinking minority.

Luke 6:  "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?  Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?  Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,972
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
Executive orders are laws as long as the president is in office.  Once corruption is outlawed, the swamp is drained and politicians can't be curropt until I leave office.  By the time that happens, all the politicians lost their corruption so they would make sense in advocating against corruption since that's the popular position.

That's not going to stop someone from buying a Hunter painting for millions of dollars.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@oromagi
In 2020, 155 Democrats and no Republicans refused corporate PAC money.
I know Gaetz and MTG refused corporate money.

If Klobachar is "very corrupt" because she took $130,000 in corporate PAC money (I think the actual 2018 number is $1.9 million but about 70% corporate cash) then it necessarily follows that all national Republicans and 90-95% of national Democrats are more corrupt than Klobachar- so why single out one of the least guilty?   Why not focus on the worst offenders, all of whom are Republicans? Donald Trump is the most egregious corporate PAC hog at 3046 times more corrupt contributions than Klobachar but you find no fault.....is that not also hypocrisy?
I criticize both parties for being curropt and I'm on the right.

 If you consider taking corporate PAC money legalized bribery, then you should be voting for Democrats who are trying to limit corporate election spending not condemning one of politicians who takes the least corporate money.
I support MTG who doesn't take a penny from PACs.  People say she's crazy for supporting Qanon.  I'm willing to overlook that since she's not curropt.

But if your curropt, left or right I don't want to vote for you.
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
You have spelled corrupt as curropt eight times in this thread, is it intentional?
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
@RM

Corruption is terrible on both sides, so I'd say it is justified.
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
-->@oromagi
In 2020, 155 Democrats and no Republicans refused corporate PAC money.
I know Gaetz and MTG refused corporate money.
False.

MTG:

  • Koch Bros. would have been her largest contributor except Charles Koch demanded a refund after she started calling all democrats child cannibals and child rapists.  (Why isn't telling gargantuan lies about the majority of US politics corruption in your book?  By any normal definition such lies are inherently corrupt.)
  • AT&T, Raytheon, and Bank of America were all in her top 20 donors.
  • Greene loves SuperPACs so much that she actually starred in a commercial for one.
    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS9y4RgV7MU&ab_channel=MountaintopMedia
    • Of course, its illegal for Federal politicians to get around donor limits by soliciting for unregulated slush funds.
      • The FEC launched an investigation on May 21.
      • All the incriminating evidence is caught on tape.
    • Let's note that although Greene has lived all her life in GA's 6th congressional, that is mostly Atlanta suburb with a lot of middle class black voters so MTG ran for congress in the 7th in 2019.  In 2020, she shifted her run 60 miles west to the 14th Congressional district, birthplace of the Klan, where her prospects improved considerably.
      • There is no indication that Greene gave back any of the money she raised carpetbagging the 7th.  Think of all the people and small businesses who gave a little money thinking they were backing a potential future congresswoman only to discover that she has decided to take your money and run someplace else.  
        • That's super corrupt- totally undermines the point of federal representation to begin with.
      • Greene bought a house in the 14th a couple of weeks before the election.  Normally, voters would never go for a candidate who never lived in their district until two weeks before the election but Greene took a lot of last minute photo ops with Klan leadership which is still how you become the Republican frontrunner in the 14th, apparently.
        • Greene illegally applied for Homestead Act Property Tax exemption on the new home.  When journalists pointed out to her that those protections and  tax exemptions are only for first homes, MTG told them to "mind your own business."
Gaetz:

All 20 of Gaetz top contributors are big corporations.  Most don't even have any interests in NW Florida: Equity Group Investments, Goldcoast Logistics Group,  Newmar Corp, L3Harris Technologies, US Sugar, Total Military Management, Total Parts Plus, Lockheed Martin, Uline Inc, Roark Capital Group, Ragingwire Enterprise Solutions, Everwell Specialty Pharmacy, Dollar Loan Center, Axium Advisors, Beckwith Electric, Charles Schwab Corp, Thunder Down Under (yes, the long running Australian male strippers show in Vegas), Whitis Consulting, Wall Private Wealth


I criticize both parties for being corrupts and I'm on the right.
  • I think your OP undermines your claim here.  Klobachar is objectively less corrupt than most Federal politicians and yet she is the focus of your corruption concerns.  If you were really impartial about corruption, the objectively ultra-corrupt Trump admin would be the focus of your concern.  It's like criticizing Democrats for wearing a tan suit to work while ignoring Republicans tearing down American flags and putting up swastikas, Confederate battle flags and Trump flags.  It not enough to criticize both parties, you must judge corruption according to a set of standards and apply critique relative to violations of that standard.  By any standard, Republicans are way more corrupt these days than any other party at any other time in US history.  If corruption is genuinely a concern for you than the state of the Republican should be your first priority in light of that concern.
 If you consider taking corporate PAC money legalized bribery, then you should be voting for Democrats who are trying to limit corporate election spending not condemning one of politicians who takes the least corporate money.
I support MTG who doesn't take a penny from PACs. 
Well, that's a big lie.  Please confirm you have now given up your support for that super corrupt liar.

People say she's crazy for supporting Qanon.  I'm willing to overlook that since she's not curropt.
The FBI has listed QAnon as a major domestic terrorist threat since August 2019.  All support for QAnon is support for anti-American terrorism.  Supporting active terrorist cells within the US should disqualify any and every candidate for any and every political office, flat out.  Your ignorance on the subject of QAnon is hurting the country you claim to support.

QAnon is now a primarily a Chinese and Russian Intel project.  It didn't start that way but since at least the close of the 2020 election this is now undeniably true. 
The Russian govt. gives the 8kun servers their cybersecurity and Qsear.ch (.ch is China) is now the most popular Q website source.  You cannot overlook the foreign attack that is QAnon and say that you are a pro-America.   

All by itself, Greene's  advocacy for anti-American terrorists represents an unprecedented  level of corruption in American politics.  You cannot claim to oppose corruption in US politics and support Greene as politician.





Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@TheUnderdog
So why am I calling her a hypocrite?  Because she is very curropt herself.  About $130,000 of the money she raised is from PACs.
I’m not sure how taking money from PAC’s makes you corrupt, but playing by the rules doesn’t mean you agree with the then. It just means you are not willing to hand yourself a disadvantage out of principal. I wouldn’t either.

11 days later

TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@oromagi
@Double_R
Looking at my DATA, I found out that she took $5000 from a PAC.  So I no longer support her.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@TheUnderdog
Most politicians take money from PACs. If your position is to only support those that do not then that’s fine, but concluding that she’s corrupt or a hypocrite merely from this does not follow.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Double_R
If she opposes corruption, she shouldn't take money from PACs.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@TheUnderdog
I already explained how that does not follow, you ignored every word I said.