Racism is a nonsense, malicious term v2.0

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I'm going to crystallize arguments made in this thread and add fine-tuning to the general argument: Racism is a nonsense, malicious term (debateart.com) .

As an astute member has pointed out Racism is a nonsense, malicious term (debateart.com), whenever something is called "racist", there seems to always be a follow-up question asking 'how is this racist?' If a term is so clearly defined, then why do we seem to always need this follow-up question? Furthermore, how can we have debates that last for hours all over the internet about whether something is "racist" or not, and not have it resolved within seconds because of a clear definition? Why can't they just quote Wikipedia or Merriam Webster and be done with it?

It's because the term is nonsense.

Functionally, "racist" and "racism" are used when "race" is mentioned and people's feelings get hurt; labelling something "racist" doesn't add any information. That's it. It's like a trigger for someone to pull whenever race is mentioned in a debate or conversation. There's no clear-cut definition that is used, elsewise there wouldn't be widespread confusion and endless debates about what is "racist", unlike when we say things like "bed" and "chair" -- those things are crystal clear. Take into consideration all the wasted hours of human endeavor spent on determining whether something is "racist" when it's a nonsense term.

And we have to further wonder about the limits to the nonsense of the "racism" term when you consider scientific claims. IQ is a controversial topic that gets people upset, but if IQ is a valid concept, can IQ test results be "racist?" Can you be scientifically correct and "racist" at the same time? We get to the stage here where what could be scientific fact is considered wrong because it's "racist" -- a nonsensical contradiction. If we take something less controversial, such as the idea that human races exist, this can also be labelled "racist". Did humans not undergo evolution because it would be "racist" to think so? Now we're starting to deny scientific fact based on it being "racist" -- pretty malicious.

But the terms "racist" and "racism" gets even more harmful when you consider that it conflates with what Hitler did. According to users of the term "racist", Hitler was a "racist" (despite him and race realists being polar-opposites of each other. Hitler hated IQ tests because Jews did the best on them, and Hitler's notion of race is pseudo-science). So, despite Hitler not having a whole lot in common with race realists, race realists are slandered with the term "racist" which draws feelings of Jews dying in the Holocaust -- a truly malicious, incorrect conflation.

As you can see, "racist" is a nonsense, malicious term that doesn't make sense, wastes countless hours, slanders scientific claims with nonsense and slurs race realists with the emotional weight of the Holocaust.

Stop using this nonsense, malicious language.

If a Scientologist called you a suppressive, would you care? Do you even know what a suppressive is? Scientology is probably a religion that you don't believe in, hence you wouldn't care about being labelled a suppressive. You'd either mock them, ask them what they mean (because it's another nonsense term) or pretend you're a suppressive for comedic effect. You certainly wouldn't be so quick to defend yourself, or list off all the Scientology friends you have as proof of your non-suppressive personage, or debate endlessly about being a suppressive means. So why give "racist" the same credence? Start calling the terms "racist" and "racism" out for what they are: nonsense.

But clearly there are real ill-feelings relating to race, right? Surely, someone hating someone else because of their race is "racist?" This is where clear, sensical language can be used: racial hatred. If someone hates someone else because of their race, he/she has "racial hatred". If someone votes for a certain party because he/she think it's best represents your race's interest, he/she has "racial bias". Use clear, sensical language instead of the nonsense terms.

The saddest part about all of this is that "racist" and all the false narratives that go along with it (white privilege, systemic racism, Native American genocide etc.) are all taught to you before your brain has fully developed (roughly age 24). By the time you've reached this age, you've been forced to accept these false narratives all the way from 5 years old into college age. If you ever questioned any of it, you were wrong because your word was against your teacher's. This is indoctrination. If you ever dare try to critically think about all this stuff you learned at school, you've got this lingering feeling that you're doing the wrong thing because you've been conditioned from the age of 5 into feeling that it's wrong. If you somehow can ignore this lingering feeling that was imposed upon you as a child through this indoctrination, you're "racist".

"Racist" is a nonsense, malicious term, too.
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Forums is good, but, have you tried the debating section?
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The problem with debate is that it lends itself to sophistry, word limits and voting blocks. You're not trying to necessarily find the truth in a debate. Instead, you're trying to inflate your ego. I'd much rather talk about the truth than attempt to inflate my ego.
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There is no truth. Only better proven and worse proven.
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If a term is so clearly defined, then why do we seem to always need this follow-up question? Furthermore, how can we have debates that last for hours all over the internet about whether something is "racist" or not, and not have it resolved within seconds because of a clear definition?
People debate all the time about whether Taiwan is a sovereign nation, despite Taiwan is a defined piece of land, and Nation is a defined concept. The reason here is that there are factors that make this incident both racist and non-racist, which doesn’t make the term racist any poorly-defined.

Rather, not everything is a false dichotomy. One thing can be of more racist element than another, but not a lot of things can be purely racist.


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Functionally, "racist" and "racism" are used when "race" is mentioned and people's feelings get hurt; labelling something "racist" doesn't add any information. That's it. It's like a trigger for someone to pull whenever race is mentioned in a debate or conversation.
Blame it’s misusage. The real term has a definition and when one feels discriminated due to being a certain race, it is technically racist according to definition.

We get to the stage here where what could be scientific fact is considered wrong because it's "racist" -- a nonsensical contradiction.
Normal and “objective” people from all races accept something as true and they accept it as non-discriminate. I mean, why would a fact discriminate? When it discriminates and offends people, it is no longer what they perceive as a fact.

All the examples below are strawmen: they are about how people misuse the term, and not the term actually is. The term has a meaning and it can be used in an objective manner: about something that exists and is objectively recognized as something that is harmful to an ethnic group of people. 



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People debate all the time about whether Taiwan is a sovereign nation, despite Taiwan is a defined piece of land, and Nation is a defined concept. The reason here is that there are factors that make this incident both racist and non-racist, which doesn’t make the term racist any poorly-defined.

Rather, not everything is a false dichotomy. One thing can be of more racist element than another, but not a lot of things can be purely racist.
The issue is that "sovereign nation" is a nuanced concept that can have a concrete definition, whilst "racist" and "racism" does not -- these two are not equivalent. Let's further look at why "racist" and "racism" do not have sensical, concrete definitions.

Some people believe that you can't be "racist" against white people You Can’t Be Racist Against White People | by Rey | Medium . None of the following definitions agree with this view, yet this is apparently a "racist" definition. This definition isn't consistent with Wikipedia that believes "racism" is about "the scientifically false belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another" (an anti-science, incorrect view) Racism - Wikipedia . Merriam Webster has a definition that doesn't mention science or 'you can't be racist against whites' at all, "having, reflecting, or fostering the belief that race (see RACE entry 1 sense 1a) is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"  Racist | Definition of Racist by Merriam-Webster . Oxford Dictionary talks about "antagonism" and "typically at minorities" racist definition - Bing , something that the other definitions don't mention at all.

Three of these definitions are from Wikipedia, Merriam Webster and Oxford dictionaries and they all define racist/racism in different ways that are not consistent with each other. Add to that the anti-white 'you can't be racist against white people' one, and there's not a consistent definition within mainstream thought. We haven't even considered the less popular interpretations and we're already inundated with contradictory definitions.

For example, the combined definitions argue that 'you can't be racist against white people but you can be racist against any race'. This is a nonsense, contradictory conception, yet that's the meaning we're ascribing from mainstream definitions.

Again, if "racist" actually meant something, why do we have such a scattergun, inconsistent and contradictory collection of definitions from mainstream thought?

Blame it’s misusage. The real term has a definition and when one feels discriminated due to being a certain race, it is technically racist according to definition.
You're begging the question.

It *can't* be misused because it's a nonsense term.

If one feels they are being racially discriminated against, then "racial discrimination" should be the term used. Otherwise, when you attempt to apply this to a white person feeling racial discrimination, that doesn't exist according to the anti-white definition I provided. Wikipedia doesn't agree that racial categories are scientifically valid, so it would stop you right there, whilst Merriam Webster and Oxford disagree with both Wikipedia and the anti-white definition. These definitions contradict each other, and I've only quoted 4. If the term "racist" and "racism" made sense, I wouldn't be able to point to 4 mainstream definitions and easily show how they contradicted each other.

Normal and “objective” people from all races accept something as true and they accept it as non-discriminate. I mean, why would a fact discriminate? When it discriminates and offends people, it is no longer what they perceive as a fact.
Wikipedia denies the possibility of races and the traits that go with them: "the scientifically false belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance" Racism - Wikipedia . Clearly, whoever wrote and whoever accepted this definition isn't being "objective" about the validity of human races. Whether it "offends" people or not is totally irrelevant as to whether it is fact. Facts can discriminate and that doesn't sully their validity.

If I were to say that, "being overweight is unhealthy", that will discriminate and make some overweight people offended. That doesn't mean the fact is wrong lol.

All the examples below are strawmen: they are about how people misuse the term, and not the term actually is. The term has a meaning and it can be used in an objective manner: about something that exists and is objectively recognized as something that is harmful to an ethnic group of people. 
Again, you are begging the question. I don't agree that the term has a sensical definition, hence people can't misuse it. What is instead happening is that people feel bad when human races are mentioned, they make up some ad-hoc rationalization to justify their bad feelings, and then stick it onto "racist" and "racism". This is not how a sensical definition is formed, hence the inconsistencies, contradictions and anti-scientific garbage.
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Again, all you talk about is how absurdly people use this term, and conclude that this term has no sensible meaning and is thus nonsense. You talk about that it is used in a harmful way thus it is malicious.

None of the following definitions agree with this view, yet this is apparently a "racist" definition. This definition isn't consistent with Wikipedia that believes "racism" is about "the scientifically false belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another"
See? That is a misuse. Let's give another example of a misusage of the term.
You think White people should not be denied rights of normal religion practices, you are literally a Fascist!
I bet $1,000 that someone on twitter said something like this at least once in the entire history of mankind, assuming society has objective existence.

This is a misusage of the term "fascist", and while a fascist is indeed harmful in view of the average human being, this usage is simply being harmful in another way: One that simply uses it as an insult that doesn't correlate with whether someone supports nationalistic policies or not. All your examples showing why "Racism" is nonsense and malicious is about how people uses it incorrectly, in according to the existing definitions. 

You're begging the question.

It *can't* be misused because it's a nonsense term.
Way to invalidate the structure of organized language that has been built around the past millennium or so. Racism has a definition. You are just not accepting it. Unless you are of enough authority to redefine how "racism" works or how language works in general, Racism is racism and people use its definition(correctly, that is, people often use it incorrectly according to the definition). Racism, according to what You agree with, is a noun. A noun is used to refer to something, an idea, even. How could a noun be nonsense when its job is to refer to something? Even in those misusages, the misusers are not treating the term as nonsense: They may refer it to something else, something that isn't racism, by definition. Just because there are confusing definitions for a term doesn't mean the term is nonsensical.

Racism is a term and it has a definition, and it has to refer to an idea based on that it is a noun. Misusage according to the definition is possible.

If one feels they are being racially discriminated against, then "racial discrimination" should be the term used.
So you DO recognize that this idea exists, and just have another term to refer to it. I don't oppose that idea, but invalidating the usage of a valid idea just because people misuse it all the time doesn't sound rational.

Wikipedia denies the possibility of races and the traits that go with them: "the scientifically false belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance" Racism - Wikipedia . Clearly, whoever wrote and whoever accepted this definition isn't being "objective" about the validity of human races. Whether it "offends" people or not is totally irrelevant as to whether it is fact. Facts can discriminate and that doesn't sully their validity.

If I were to say that, "being overweight is unhealthy", that will discriminate and make some overweight people offended. That doesn't mean the fact is wrong lol.
...Do I really have to prove to you that other than we cannot be sure of anything, no other statement can be surely proven to be a fact?

Let us assume that all the facts we consider facts are factual. The facts do not express racial hate: Could you really establish a fact that says "Jews should be killed!" and be accepted by the scientific community? NO! The facts that have been established are not trying to assume race constitutes whether if one is superior or inferior: You know it is a false belief. If the people are offended because they think it expresses racial hate: It is only subjectively racist: because the self finds the 'fact" of racial hate. To be fair, some of your examples are just subjectively using the terms. You just don't understand how these people find whatever they are looking at racist. It is a subjective matter.

How about I challenge you to a debate to the same issue? I feel like ping-ponging back and forth is more meaningless than debate it all out.
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Again, all you talk about is how absurdly people use this term, and conclude that this term has no sensible meaning and is thus nonsense. You talk about that it is used in a harmful way thus it is malicious.
That's only part of what I've talked about. I've separately addressed why the definitions are nonsense -- that argument doesn't rely on "how absurdly people use this term".

None of the following definitions agree with this view, yet this is apparently a "racist" definition. This definition isn't consistent with Wikipedia that believes "racism" is about "the scientifically false belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another"
See? That is a misuse. Let's give another example of a misusage of the term.
You think White people should not be denied rights of normal religion practices, you are literally a Fascist!
Just so we're clear, you're arguing that Wikipedia's example is misusage of the term "racist", right?

I bet $1,000 that someone on twitter said something like this at least once in the entire history of mankind, assuming society has objective existence.

This is a misusage of the term "fascist", and while a fascist is indeed harmful in view of the average human being, this usage is simply being harmful in another way: One that simply uses it as an insult that doesn't correlate with whether someone supports nationalistic policies or not. All your examples showing why "Racism" is nonsense and malicious is about how people uses it incorrectly, in according to the existing definitions. 
I agree that people have the capacity to misuse terms. I also agree that there are fringe people who can blurt out nonsense involving a term, thus misuse the term.

What I've also shown is that mainstream thinking (Wikipedia, Oxford dictionary, Merriam Webster and anti-white university rhetoric) have definitions that contradict each other. These aren't fringe looneys blurting out nonsense. Many, many people agree with these definitions, hence why they've made it to generally reputable places. At best, only one of them could be arguing the correct definition, and I've only quoted four definitions.

Way to invalidate the structure of organized language that has been built around the past millennium or so. Racism has a definition. You are just not accepting it. Unless you are of enough authority to redefine how "racism" works or how language works in general, Racism is racism and people use its definition(correctly, that is, people often use it incorrectly according to the definition). Racism, according to what You agree with, is a noun. A noun is used to refer to something, an idea, even. How could a noun be nonsense when its job is to refer to something? Even in those misusages, the misusers are not treating the term as nonsense: They may refer it to something else, something that isn't racism, by definition. Just because there are confusing definitions for a term doesn't mean the term is nonsensical.

Racism is a term and it has a definition, and it has to refer to an idea based on that it is a noun. Misusage according to the definition is possible.
So you've decided to use the Merriam Webster definition which I've already addressed. If you are to use this definition, then you need to reject the three other mainstream definitions, as well as any other definitions that exist and contradict the Merriam Webster one. Are you willing to take that first step?

It's interesting that you deem I lack the authority to determine what definition should be used, but you've not demonstrated you're any authority to determine that the Merriam Webster definition should be preferred in spite of all others. Stating "racism is racism" is circular reasoning and isn't sufficient to give your definition credence.

You state that "racism" is a noun, and therefore it can't be nonsense. I don't see why anyone should agree with this. We can make up random terms that are functionally nouns, like glutterwojk and cisterbleen, and you have no idea what I'm talking about because it's I've yet to define them. I can tell you that when I say cisterbleen, I mean that this is a cistern that has steam escaping, and now you understand what I mean. But we never get there with "racism" because we have myriads of definitions that contradict each other. I think this is because the term isn't designed through logic. It's just people's knee-jerk aversion to talking about race --an emotion, not sense.

Again, I'm arguing that you can't misuse the term in the first place because it's nonsense. The fact that people have attempted to ascribe a definition to people's knee-jerk reaction to race doesn't make it any more sensical, and when all those definitions contradict each other, you can be more certain that the term "racism" is nonsense.

So you DO recognize that this idea exists, and just have another term to refer to it. I don't oppose that idea, but invalidating the usage of a valid idea just because people misuse it all the time doesn't sound rational.
Absolutely I agree that racial discrimination can exist.

I think the "idea" of "racism" isn't an idea at all, but instead an emotional reaction to the mentioning of race.

This whole conversation and the damaging effects of "racism" could be avoided if we just used "racial bias", "racial discrimination" and similar terms to describe what we actually mean, rather than attempt to make a definition out of negative feelings towards concepts of race. If you don't oppose then idea, then why not embrace it?

...Do I really have to prove to you that other than we cannot be sure of anything, no other statement can be surely proven to be a fact?

Let us assume that all the facts we consider facts are factual. The facts do not express racial hate: Could you really establish a fact that says "Jews should be killed!" and be accepted by the scientific community? NO! The facts that have been established are not trying to assume race constitutes whether if one is superior or inferior: You know it is a false belief. If the people are offended because they think it expresses racial hate: It is only subjectively racist: because the self finds the 'fact" of racial hate. To be fair, some of your examples are just subjectively using the terms. You just don't understand how these people find whatever they are looking at racist. It is a subjective matter.

How about I challenge you to a debate to the same issue? I feel like ping-ponging back and forth is more meaningless than debate it all out.
For context, you've already argued that Wikipedia's definition of "racism" is misusage of the term, and we're discussing it here.

This is where we could use the term "racial hatred" for wanting Jewish people to be killed.

Races could theoretically be better at things than other races, so that can be scientific fact.

If whether something is "racist" or not is a "subjective matter", then you've totally conceded there is no consistent definition for it at all -- I've got no problems with you making that argument and I'll agree with you.

I already stated why talking in the forums is superior to debating. We can hash out nuance with tens of thousands of words, no one's ego gets too badly bruised, and we're not incentivized to engage in sophistry. If you don't want to continue talking, then feel free to stop.
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There is no truth. Only better proven and worse proven.
This is bit of a derailment from the thread's topic, but I'll address it anyway.

So you don't think that there is any inherent logic to the universe?