🎉 Afghanistan has been liberated from foreign oppression thanks to the heroic Mujahideen warriors 🎉
Congratulations to the brave Mujahideen fighters in Afghanistan
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Aren't the Taliban just another foreign oppressor? They were founded by Pakistani intelligence in 1994 and recruited from discontented Pashtun madrassas. Yes, they have recently made efforts to be more accommodating of other tribal groups and ethnicities and even elevated a Shia commander recently which would have been unthinkable twenty years ago but ultimately the Taliban has always existed at the pleasure of the Pakistani government.
This Taliban takeover like the last Taliban takeover represents another foreign takeover and the collapse of most local autonomy and control. I'm not saying that Afghans were not subject to the influence of NATO occupation but I am asserting that Afghans were objectively more free under NATO influence than Talaban and so, liberation from foreign oppression is less accurate than subjugation to a new foreign oppressor.
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@oromagi
...i am asserting that Afghans were objectively more free under NATO influence than Talaban and so, liberation from foreign oppression is less accurate than subjugation to a new foreign oppressor.
Well-said. There were a couple of music artists blooming in Afghanistan. I don't think there's going to be much left when the Taliban starts perverting education in favor of religious fanaticism. Plus, Kabul had a vibrant Sikh and Hindu population. I'm not a fan of them, but I think those certainly won't last long in a Taliban state.
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@oromagi
I never denied that the Taliban aren't being funded by foreign powers. That doesn't inherently make it a foreign oppressor. We're the American revolutionaries "foreign oppressors" for being backed by France, the Netherlands, and Spain?
The Taliban is *a great deal* more favorable to the Afghani people than the ANG was. There's a reason why Afghanis instantly decry American intervention but say nothing about Pakistan, and why the ANG had to rely on the world's superpower for life support.
-->@oromagiI never denied that the Taliban aren't being funded by foreign powers. That doesn't inherently make it a foreign oppressor. We're the American revolutionaries "foreign oppressors" for being backed by France, the Netherlands, and Spain?
More than just funding, I am saying that the majority of Taliban were not born in Afghanistan, they were born in Pakistan. That was certainly true ten and twenty years ago, I am less confident about that assertion today. The overwhelming majority of American revolutionaries were born in the 13 colonies.
The Taliban is *a great deal* more favorable to the Afghani people than the ANG was.
What evidence supports this claim?
There's a reason why Afghanis instantly decry American intervention but say nothing about Pakistan,
I don't think that's accurate. I think the majority of Afghans think of Pakistan and the US as interlopers alike.
"Afghanistan-Pakistan relations have been tense for more than four decades. Most Afghans living in big cities have a negative view of Pakistan because they remember that Islamabad supported the Taliban and the Mujahideen in the 1990s,"
The overwhelming majority of Afghans felt that the Taliban should purge itself of foreign influence before negotiating peace last year.
and why the ANG had to rely on the world's superpower for life support.
There's no doubt that the US propped up the Afghan government but lack of support for a non-tribal centralized national government does not automatically translate into affirmative support for Pakistani replacement overlords.
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@triangle.128k
i think you might like this picture-https://static.india.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/556.png?impolicy=Medium_Resize&w=1200&h=800
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@oromagi
but ultimately the Taliban has always existed at the pleasure of the Pakistani government.
i believe this is the most accurate takeaway about the taliban
More than just funding, I am saying that the majority of Taliban were not born in Afghanistan, they were born in Pakistan.
1. Not true, prove it
2. Even if they were, the majority of Taliban are Pashtuns. Pakistani and Afghani Pashtuns are more or less the same peoples.
"Afghanistan-Pakistan relations have been tense for more than four decades. Most Afghans living in big cities have a negative view of Pakistan because they remember that Islamabad supported the Taliban and the Mujahideen in the 1990s,"
Yeah this is just a journo mindlessly saying "um Afghanis don't like the Taliban haha." For one it's impossible to get statistics in a war-torn area. That being said, watch any documentary on the Afghani conflict and it's pretty obvious the locals seem much more sympathetic to the Taliban than the ANG.
I mean why else was the ANG in such an enormous struggle to get rid of the Taliban? Why does the Taliban seem to have great relations with the people in their occupied areas, while the Afghanis formerly under ANG rule cry about corruption and abuse?
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@triangle.128k
True.
Borders do not necessarily prohibited cultural and tribal allegiances
Pakistan is probably the conduit for Taliban success, but I expect that the flow of assistance is much more widespread.
The USA was once as complicit in supporting the Taliban as whosoever might be now.