However, still don’t see any reason for there to be a doctor enabler
Fast Food Mafia DP3
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@Polyglot
I don’t think we should question too much the game balance. Actually, I would think my role makes sense in this game giving your role as restless spirit. If I was killed early on and you died in the night, a restless spirit would balance the game out a bit.
No? Cause I have to die and my role doesn’t work on MYLO
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@Lunatic
You are discounting that there could be 3, or 2 mafia and 1 third party.
No cause there are only 2 wincons. So no TP. We talked about this.
Can’t be 3 cause scum would’ve won. Can only be one. When’s the last time you saw an 8-1 game. And you have been scumreading in pairs so clearly you don’t believe it’s 1 or 3
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@ILikePie5
There are only 2. One is a 1x which Chris who didn’t even know he had it. Second is Speed who has an Enabler in the form of Disc. And yes I do call him out over it, but he’s not that bad to force MYLO on DP2.
One of the main reasons you scum read earth was because of the multiple protecters theory, so you are literally contradicting yourself. Also you are proving my point for me by pointing out misterchris also had a protective role which I forgot about and wasn't even referring to. So a doctor, a doc enabler, a bulletproof, and a 1x are ALL town? Maybe. But by your own logic with earth you should be more skeptical of the doc claim.
And we both know that Beloved Princess is a common scum fake claim. You lynched me over it if I recall correctly. What changed here? Why are you so adamant on defending Poly? Why do you town read him?
When did I ever lynch you just because your claim? I don't remember but if I was lynching you it had something to do with behavior. I am starting to town read poly based on the fact you almost mislynched him and that my result confirms his claimed role. You on the other hand have like 0 behavioral motive to scum read poly here outside of just not believing his claim. You are forgetting or choosing to ignore that if he is town you potentially end the game or put us in MYLO. You are blindly buying into the doc claim, if he's scum there is nothing to stop a night kill. So, on the contrary, why do YOU think speed isn't lying?
Scum can’t be Speed or Disc cause they would’ve hammered by now. Unless you believe it’s exactly Speed and Poly or Disc and Poly. Poly is still scum
The game is literally solved yall. In any situation Poly has to be scum
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@Lunatic
He wasn't asked to claim until this day phase, and claimed when he wasa pressured... He would have been FOS'ed for claiming early too. IF you are a noob its a lose / lose scenario then?
I'm willing to consider the possibility that Pie is scum, but this seems a little dismissive to me. He posted several times after Wylted called for claims and well after my vote was on him. I claimed early in the DP. DD did as well. I don't know why you think we would have FOS'ed him for doing the same. Poly's also been in more than a few games by now, so saying that this is noob behavior doesn't sit right with me.
Anyway, I just got off of teaching a class and I'm starving. I'll come back on in a bit.
Anyways I’m at work so gotta head back. I will lay out a detailed statement after work around 10:45 CST about why Poly has to be scum. Until then don’t lynch me. Lunatic is trying to talk his way out like he did in a game before.
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@ILikePie5
Scum can’t be Speed or Disc cause they would’ve hammered by now. Unless you believe it’s exactly Speed and Poly or Disc and Poly. Poly is still scum
or they aren't on, or don't want to be implicated in mylo or hammering, or its whiteflame/ wylted, or literally any other combination of players on the very large POE list.... Wh yare you going to such great lengths to buy the only narrative that implicates poly?
I’m curious about Pie now. Seems like he’s pushing hard for a mislynch. Killing a beloved princess during the day doesn’t benefit the town in any way.
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@whiteflame
I'm willing to consider the possibility that Pie is scum, but this seems a little dismissive to me. He posted several times after Wylted called for claims and well after my vote was on him. I claimed early in the DP. DD did as well. I don't know why you think we would have FOS'ed him for doing the same. Poly's also been in more than a few games by now, so saying that this is noob behavior doesn't sit right with me.
I am saying he wouldnt have known what a beloved princess is, thats a DDO style claim. I don't think he came up with that himself. Anyways being one of the last to claim just means he was on later than others. I think outright lynching him over any of the other options for that seems pretty excessive when the stakes of his claim put us at endgame, or mylo. We should consider our options a little closer is all I am suggesting. If at the end of 3 days we need to lynch poly based on having the worst behavior, I am down for that
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@Lunatic
We should consider our options a little closer is all I am suggesting. If at the end of 3 days we need to lynch poly based on having the worst behavior, I am down for that
I’m fine with that. I’ve got additional thoughts, but I’ll post them when I have time to sit down and type them out.
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@whiteflame
sounds good
VTNL is objectively better than lynching a claimed beloved princess at this point isn't it?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I’d say this is a two-sided problem. It’s a mistake to lynch him based solely on the claim. It’s also a mistake to remove him as a suspect based solely on the claim. There’s a risk to removing him, particularly with that role, but it’s also a common fake claim for that very reason.
I’m kind of split on the analysis of Pie’s points.
On the one hand, it’s entirely possible that Speed just isn’t on, so saying that he’s town because he hasn’t VTL’d yet is a bit problematic. That doesn’t work so well for DD or you, since both of you have been on and posting while Poly was at L-1, but I can at least see a reason to continue considering Speed as possible scum.
On the other hand, I don’t buy this argument about not being implicated. Pie and I would be top of the list of any implications if we’re wrong, and scum would know to trust the Beloved Princess claim if Poly wasn’t scum, setting themselves up for an easy win if they hammer.
The problem here is that Poly’s still alive after reaching L-1. There are a few explanations for that. One is that DD just didn’t seize on the opportunity when presented to him, which, given the length of time he had to make that choice and his continued activity over that time (the only reason I could find him giving against voting was that he wanted to extend the DP), I’d have trouble believing. I doubt you’d miss the opportunity as scum, which gives me less reason to sus you now.
Two is that Speed isn’t around and that’s the reason that there was no hammer. That would make it likely that one scum is on the lynch. This is plausible.
Three is that no scum is on the lynch and Poly is scum, so if he has a scum partner as we presume, then they are unwilling to hammer for the sake of protecting him. I’d say that this is also plausible.
So, to my mind, what we’ve done this DP makes it pretty straightforward: we either lynch Poly or Speed. Unless we’re considering the unlikely scenario where someone else is doing something very strange and against their better interests, I can’t see another option.
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@whiteflame
I’d say this is a two-sided problem. It’s a mistake to lynch him based solely on the claim. It’s also a mistake to remove him as a suspect based solely on the claim.
I wasn't suggesting either of those points. I was actually referring to the fact that we are at MyLo as far as poly goes. Usually better to vtnl on MyLo for the possibility that night actions bring something to light.
If we lynch poly and we are wrong we lose unless speed protects correctly. If we lynch anyone else and we are wrong then that sucks but we are still in the game.
Living1. Disc2. Polyglot3. whiteflame4. Lunatic5. iLikePie56. Wylted7. Speedrace
Out of this list I know speed and I are town and I don't want to lynch poly this DP for reasons already explained (I may potentially be convinced next DP of course). That leaves:
3. whiteflame4. Lunatic5. iLikePie56. Wylted
Pie and wylted are giving me solid town vibes, will catch up on DP now to see how I feel about lunatic and white flame (be warned, I have not read all of DP 2 either.)
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@whiteflame
I’d say this is a two-sided problem. It’s a mistake to lynch him based solely on the claim. It’s also a mistake to remove him as a suspect based solely on the claim. There’s a risk to removing him, particularly with that role, but it’s also a common fake claim for that very reason.
He is not removed as a suspect. He's not confirmed town by any means. I just don't understand how he got to l-1, and how pie was making an argument to get him hammered, especially when there's a tracker result proving he at least didn't carry out the kill...
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@whiteflame
The problem here is that Poly’s still alive after reaching L-1. There are a few explanations for that. One is that DD just didn’t seize on the opportunity when presented to him, which, given the length of time he had to make that choice and his continued activity over that time (the only reason I could find him giving against voting was that he wanted to extend the DP), I’d have trouble believing. I doubt you’d miss the opportunity as scum, which gives me less reason to sus you now.Two is that Speed isn’t around and that’s the reason that there was no hammer. That would make it likely that one scum is on the lynch. This is plausible.Three is that no scum is on the lynch and Poly is scum, so if he has a scum partner as we presume, then they are unwilling to hammer for the sake of protecting him. I’d say that this is also plausible.
Four, there could actually be just two scum so participating on the lynch and putting us at MYLO will still make them look bad. Hammer analysis isn't relevant here yet, I feel like Pie is really pushing that too hard.
Page 1 notes: Three ppl claimed (me wf and wylted) but only Wylted and I seemed to have actual reasons for doing so (I wanted town to know speed is town and wylted wanted to give town investigation results) no pressure claims are not inherently suspicious but I don't see any reason for wf to do so if he really is vanilla town.
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@Lunatic
Four, there could actually be just two scum so participating on the lynch and putting us at MYLO will still make them look bad. Hammer analysis isn't relevant here yet, I feel like Pie is really pushing that too hard.
I find that hard to believe, but fine, I'll take your point. At the moment, I'm having trouble finding any other avenues that give me much in the way of information to work from, so I'm open to suggestions.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Page 1 notes: Three ppl claimed (me wf and wylted) but only Wylted and I seemed to have actual reasons for doing so (I wanted town to know speed is town and wylted wanted to give town investigation results) no pressure claims are not inherently suspicious but I don't see any reason for wf to do so if he really is vanilla town.
The reason is largely because I was already sussed by multiple people during the previous DP. If I had been intransigent, the result would have been pretty similar, except I would have reached it with several votes on me instead and I anticipated a mislynch if that happened. It's not like my giving away my role did anything to harm town, either.
Page 2 notes:
Poly giving town vibes here. Giving well reasoned reads and contribution, voting for who they think is scum then naturally unvoting when things come up to show their stated reasons as incorrect.
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@whiteflame
I find that hard to believe, but fine, I'll take your point. At the moment, I'm having trouble finding any other avenues that give me much in the way of information to work from, so I'm open to suggestions.
My top two suspects right now are pie, and speedrace.
I actually town read pie initially because of how hard he went on earth since dp1; I feel like if he was scum that was too ballsy a move for him to be on that mislynch so hard. But with his behavior this phase in rushing the lynch, I am starting to think this is just caucky scum pie. Because there's no world where he as town rushes the game like this. I at least think he would be a better townie than that. So could be pie is just ballsy scum here, knowing he could get away with the earth mislynch by blaming it on earth changing his claim or something.
My second scum read here is speed still. The huge lack of activity and low interest in the game in indicative of his scum play. He played very similar in the stand mafia if you recall. He is expert at fake claiming too, so if supa didn't give them doc as a fake claim he is one of the few that I think would risk that type of claim. I don't neccesary see a pie/ speed scum team based on interactions, could be wrong here. Honestly I see a you and pie scum team or a disc and speed scum team based on interactions/ claims.
Disc is looking better for not rushing the lynch here, but his activity in dp1 and 2 wasn't all the townie feeling to me.
I think wylted's cop claim is legit, don't have any reason to doubt that. Supa usually puts a cop.
Poly I was suspicious of until he got a sketch wagon on him, and my result seems to meet his claim, so he is a bit lower on my list.
The only two I'd be willing to lynch today would be speed or pie. Considering pie still gets to vote after if he actually is town, there is objectively less consequence out of that lynch. Also I don't think I remember seeing restless spirit ever used.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Claim list for the guy on the 13 hour shift remodeling dollar stores?
Claims list:
Disc - ???? - Doc Enabler (If dies, doc can’t protect)
Polyglot- Dominoes Pizza- Beloved Princess
Whiteflame- Panda Express- Vanilla
Lunatic- Jimmy Johns- Universal Back Up (Tracked poly np2, visited no one)
iLikePie5- Dunkin Donuts- Restless spirit
Wylted - In and Out Burger- Cop (NP1 speedrace inno, NP2 Roleblocked?)
Speedrace- Raising Canes- Doctor (NP1 Pie, NP2 Pie)
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@Lunatic
I appreciate the analysis. I'd be willing to consider either lynch, but I do have to note that it's a bit odd for scum to tie their fates together so closely. If Speed did flip scum, DD would easily be the next target, since his claim is absolutely tied to Speed's. If there is no Doc in this game, then there is no need for a Doc Enabler. Much as I buy the idea that he'd play like this as scum (he did do it before, as you say), I don't think that he'd prep this fake claim with DD. That seems more half-assed than I'm willing to buy at the moment. So, if we're considering these two, I think the case you're making against Pie is more persuasive.
The idea of VTNL sounds good. it won't hurt the town and will still leave us with time to scoop out mafia with some cop reads. I don't have any reads on speedrace and I'm willing to put him as a town read simply because the way Wylted interacted with him DP2. As far as I'm concerned, Pie is looking more and more scummy based on his interactions with me today and I'll be willing to lynch him if we decide not to VTNL.