For my first 19 years of life, I had a very structured outline of how I would conduct my life. I did well in school, made some great friends, had some incredible and terrible experiences, and basically followed the plan. I spent my entirety of high school choosing a career, bouncing between law, medical, finance, finally resting on cybersecurity within the military. I come from a low income family and to make a long story short I can expect no financial support from my parents. After high school I worked and invested to go on a religious mission, which I did. After my experiences there I found myself once again doubting my career choice. I come home to nothing, having spent basically everything I had. I lived in my friend's parent's office space for a few months, got a job at a restaurant, and moved into a different place where I rented a room. I started college and have been trying different careers since. My mother expects me to finish college, as when my great grandfather passed he left all the money he had for me and my sister's education. It would be enough to cover about 3 years at a state college which is an incredible gift. As a result of this gift, I want it to be spent in the best way possible and so I dove deeper into trying to make a decision. I joined a cybersecurity program on campus while working three other jobs and still at school, trying to support myself, get educated, and decide on a path. Honestly, all that came out of it was a feeling of dissatisfaction. I've gotten my own place now, still work at the restaurant as a server and have started investing in my future. College only made me more angry at our education system and its stupidity, working all this much has frankly burnt me out, and I'm still no closer to a real decision. Some say focus on passion, which if I went with would be to major in religious studies and become a professor. Unfortunately for that path, there is no real money at the end of that rainbow and I'd likely hate the school I work at. Teaching would be incredible and I find it extremely rewarding but not at an American school. Then some point to money and say just to make as much money as possible, then do your passion. Which I'm like, "ok that makes sense." But then you look at stories of success and nearly every one of them tell you that if you just go in for money you're gonna hate yourself and likely not succeed anyway. Which I'd rather not do. So then you get right back at education. Keep getting educated and trying to find a career path, although I could be wasting the precious few funds I have on something that I'm not likely to get much back from that I couldn't do myself. If my American history class is literally a study of the Constitution, I can read wikipedia. I own a copy of the Federalist Papers, I can be educated on these topics without spending all this money. Unfortunately, self-education has little in the way of credentials and modern work life demands more and more often to produce a degree. Now every time I sit down and try to come to a decision, I feel paralyzed by the sheer amount of choice. I know dozens of ways I could just go make money or do something I really enjoy or go for an education. If you've made it this far down the rabbit hole with me, what would be your advice? What's the best way to sort through all the crap without wasting time or money and avoiding hating myself in 10 years.
Overcoming Choice Paralysis
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Utilitarianism. If something doesn’t make you happy or won’t make you happy for the foreseeable future, don’t do it.
For choices that seem the complete same, just do either as the happiness level will be the same.
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@Intelligence_06
Birth, life, death.
It's a pretty straightforward reality.
The life bit is about 95% repetition.
But the trouble is we have a tendency to overthink.
Though you can find contentment in the unlikeliest of places.
And career is a buzz word....That basically, just means working for financial reward.
And any career can be just as boring as any other.....Repetition.
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@Intelligence_06
I like the general attitude of this, but it doesn't seem to take in to account the long term. For example, smoking weed might make me happy for now and the foreseeable future but 30 years from now it'll probably kill me. Or choosing a to be a food service worker might work for now, but 30 years down the road it'll make me poor and miserable. Or am I missing the point there?
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@zedvictor4
So, find something repetitious that makes me content? Or accept the repetition and find ways to be content aside from it?
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@MonkeyKing
I like the general attitude of this, but it doesn't seem to take in to account the long term. For example, smoking weed might make me happy for now and the foreseeable future but 30 years from now it'll probably kill me. Or choosing a to be a food service worker might work for now, but 30 years down the road it'll make me poor and miserable. Or am I missing the point there?
You are missing the point. The fear of death, sickness or poverty is one reason of why you aren't as happy as you could be.
- Does smoking weed make you happy? If you do and it always make you happy, it makes you die happy, which means you will be happy for the rest of your life. That is a win.
- Does working at fast foods make you happy? If yes, you will contribute your life to something that makes you happy or you will quit to find something else that makes you happy. You can make a win out of this.
- Is being poor really miserable? All the monks in the world says no. The capitalist doctrine of that richness=good is what kills people.
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@zedvictor4
But the trouble is we have a tendency to overthink.
A person who shames himself for overthinking becomes unsuccessful. A person who pride himself for overthinking becomes a philosopher.
If you find yourself overthinking as a habit, don't be ashamed: For you could branch out to be one of the greatest philosophers of history if you keep thinking in an unlimited way.
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@MonkeyKing
The main goal in life is to be happy, not to live long or be rich. Although, for many different people, being old or rich makes them happy for some reason.
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@Intelligence_06
You are missing the point. The fear of death, sickness or poverty is one reason of why you aren't as happy as you could be.
- Does smoking weed make you happy? If you do and it always make you happy, it makes you die happy, which means you will be happy for the rest of your life. That is a win.
- Does working at fast foods make you happy? If yes, you will contribute your life to something that makes you happy or you will quit to find something else that makes you happy. You can make a win out of this.
- Is being poor really miserable? All the monks in the world says no. The capitalist doctrine of that richness=good is what kills people.
I'm not sure if I can totally get behind you. What I am worried about is a long term effect, like keeping with the weed example. I can see where it could be considered a win to die doing something that makes you happy, but if I do it now, regret it later, and it comes to bite me in the butt, is it really making me happy? With something like weed it is easier to quit and call it a day. Going into financial debt is a bit tougher on the consequence side though. And I do not mean that poor is equal to miserable, that was my inadequate phrasing. I've spent most my life poor and been plenty happy. I do, however, want to achieve certain financial goals. Not only for myself and hopefully a future family, but to be able to assist others as well. Monks can be happy and poor, but for a lot of the world they have to pay for their food and it makes me happy to be the one able to provide that. If you are correct that death, sickness, or poverty is the issue, poverty is a great possibility. Death and sickness I think made our peace. Death cannot be stopped, same with sickness. We can delay the best we can but they aren't going anywhere. I can, however, battle poverty. Are you suggesting then that that is a bad idea? And possibly the root of my indecision?
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@Intelligence_06
Utilitarianism is fundamentally wrong as a moral theory.
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@MonkeyKing
Drop the high expectations. I know it’s easier said than done.
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@MonkeyKing
What I am worried about is a long term effect, like keeping with the weed example. I can see where it could be considered a win to die doing something that makes you happy, but if I do it now, regret it later, and it comes to bite me in the butt, is it really making me happy? With something like weed it is easier to quit and call it a day.
Then don't do it, since the idea of starting weed for you is not a happy one.
Going into financial debt is a bit tougher on the consequence side though. And I do not mean that poor is equal to miserable, that was my inadequate phrasing. I've spent most my life poor and been plenty happy. I do, however, want to achieve certain financial goals. Not only for myself and hopefully a future family, but to be able to assist others as well. Monks can be happy and poor, but for a lot of the world they have to pay for their food and it makes me happy to be the one able to provide that. If you are correct that death, sickness, or poverty is the issue, poverty is a great possibility. Death and sickness I think made our peace. Death cannot be stopped, same with sickness. We can delay the best we can but they aren't going anywhere. I can, however, battle poverty. Are you suggesting then that that is a bad idea? And possibly the root of my indecision?
No, I am just saying that seeking money as life goal is not 100% correct. You aren't doing exactly anything wrong.
This is a true story...
A friend of mine once came to me complaining that they were receiving so many job offers that they were stressing out over which one to pick. At first I thought the way to help them was to hear them describe each one and help them weigh out the pros and cons of each but after going through several such descriptions I quickly realized that the worst of the worst of their offers were easy desk jobs that payed moderately better than the best paying hard manual labor job I could get a hold of. They were simply in a better place in life and getting better opportunities afforded to them than I was.
I realized that even if they picked something completely at random and put in two thirds of the effort in life that I did they would have much more opportunity for success than I. I pointed this out and she just rolled her eyes and said "That isn't helpful, picking something random is no choice at all!" I have had very few choices myself over the years, so the idea of having no choice at all really did not make me feel bad for her in the least. Still, I kept my mouth shut and simply wished her luck.
This same friend of mine now lives in the basement of the four bedroom house that I bought a year and a half ago, paying me rent with money she gets from working a particular job for just a few weeks before quitting or moving to something different because she has trouble following through on job commitments she makes because "there are so many choices out there". I still have relatively few opportunities myself, I grew up in a trailer park for the first 14 years of my life before being kicked out by my mother to live with my father (this thread isn't about life stories though, so I'll stop that one there) but I made the most out of what choices I did have.
The point of this story isn't to help you make a choice, it is to help you realize that having choices and opportunities is a good thing, and not something to feel paralyzed over. If the current choices offered to you are really all that equal then I say this in all seriousness, just pick one completely at random and make the most of it. Worst case scenario you end up buying a four bedroom house in a nice suburb. Just don't end up as the one talking about their opportunities then renting out the basement.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
That was honestly pretty insightful. Thanks bro
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@Reece101
@MonkeyKing
Sound advice from Reece101.
Expectations or over expectations are driven by marketeers, who constantly try and sell us the unachievable.... It's there in our faces, day in and day out.
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@Intelligence_06
I understand what you are saying.
Though I would draw a distinction between overthink and positive thought.
I was referring to the negativity of overthink....Not seeing the wood for the trees as it were.
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@MonkeyKing
But then you look at stories of success and nearly every one of them tell you that if you just go in for money you're gonna hate yourself and likely not succeed anyway
The people who say that shit actually believe it. However when you follow the life story of those successful people, they actually do not follow their passion.
Look up Cal Newport speaking about it, but people build their career capital before actually doing what they love. Career capital allows the autonomy to do what you want
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@Sum1hugme
Utilitarianism is fundamentally wrong as a moral theory.
Explain. How would doing actions with the best overall results either through egotistical utilitarianism or altruistic utilitarianism be wrong?
The o ly arguments I ever actually see against it, just batch about the feasibility of predicting the results of actions accurately, but they don't seem to argue why we shouldn't strive for the best results in a utilitarian fashion so we can get as close to immulating a perfect moral action as possible.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
the lack of choice is beneficial. The word decision comes from a Latin word meaning cut off. The more possibilities remain the less you can commit to one path. I just recently learned how to make a decision. Fear of cutting off paths held me back for 40 years and now I just cut off other possibilities.
If you can't decide between 5 jobs, it is because you need to get your priorities in order.
Just raise your standards. Maybe your friend could have said. Okay I won't work more than 10 miles from home, and then if 3 jobs remained he could say. I only want to work at jobs where I learn something new, so I can use them as a stepping stone and then cut out the rest by seeing which was the best learning opportunity. Or decided he wanted to like his work environment and decided to ask current employees how they enjoy the company.
Abstract things like "which opportunity is the best" will just end up hurting you
make your world smaller to make decisions easier
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@Wylted
Just raise your standards. Maybe your friend could have said. Okay I won't work more than 10 miles from home, and then if 3 jobs remained he could say. I only want to work at jobs where I learn something new, so I can use them as a stepping stone and then cut out the rest by seeing which was the best learning opportunity. Or decided he wanted to like his work environment and decided to ask current employees how they enjoy the company.
Yup, I agree completely and to an extent that is what happens at first. Problem comes when she works at a job for a month then finds some reason that it isn't a perfect fit - usually a coworker conflict of some sort (you know how women are) - or she hears about something she likes slightly better two weeks after starting at some place. Following through after making a commitment is the attribute she has trouble with.
I have tried to explain why follow-through is important in life but mostly to deaf ears. I guess as long as she scrapes together enough for rent it is not my business though.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I agree on her with this
She should keep changing until she finds something she likes. If will probably take less than 20 changes to find the perfect career and job
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@Wylted
Well the impossibility of accurately predicting consequences is a solid one. The "good" In a Consequentialist ethic is totally arbitrary. And the consequences are not what constitutes the morality of an action.
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@Sum1hugme
the consequences are precisely what constitute the morality of an action. An action that makes me ejaculated is significantly more moral than one that kills 200 people.
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@Wylted
Consequentialist ethics are totally arbitrary to the opinion of the individual, and dependent on the satisfaction of some arbitrarily determined "good" consequence in order to be moral. It totally fails to make the classical distinction between a thing that is good in itself and a thing that is good as an instrument.
The morality lies in the motivation for action. Suppose dick and Jane are walking from opposite ends of the sidewalk, and Im between them is a beggar. They both give $1 as they pass by, so assume the consequences are equal. Jane gives because she thinks it's the right thing to do. Dick gives because he wants Jane to notice him. Are their actions equally morally praiseworthy?
In order for an action to be truly morally praiseworthy, it must be the right thing and done for the right reason.
A Consequentialist ethic will sometimes blindly stumble into the moral action, but it will always be for the wrong reasons.
7 days later
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@Sum1hugme
The morality lies in the motivation for action. Suppose dick and Jane are walking from opposite ends of the sidewalk, and Im between them is a beggar. They both give $1 as they pass by, so assume the consequences are equal. Jane gives because she thinks it's the right thing to do. Dick gives because he wants Jane to notice him. Are their actions equally morally praiseworthy?
It's morally equal. Let's assume that giving to a pan handler does not contribute to him maintaining his addiction, and the act does actually help him.
Both have caused the same result. Both individuals acted selfishly here as well. Jane feels good doing what she considers the right thing, so she gave to feel good about herself, and dick gave for the selfish reason of thinking it would somehow get him laid.
If we go by your definition of good, than people like Hitler could be called good, because he thought his actions were making the world a better place. Ted Kazynsky mailed people bombs, but his motives to stop the negative effects of industrialization were pure.
Motive doesn't matter. I think this is why liberals will create social welfare programs. They think their motive is good enough and ignore the fact those policies cause more people to suffer in poverty.
Put it this way. If your enemy puts sugar in your coffee by accident intending to poison you, it is better than your friend putting poison in your coffee because she tried to help you have sweet coffee.
I just listened to a 911 call of a woman who slipped a monkey a sedative thinking she was calming him down, the effect from the sedative was different in monkeys, so it literally ripped her friends face off. The world is being destroyed by good intentions, because people want to feel like they are good people, instead of actually doing good things.
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@Wylted
It's morally equal...Both have caused the same result.
You're assuming the consequences constitute the morality, but you can't justify that.
Jane feels good doing what she considers the right thing, so she gave to feel good about herself...
You're just imposing that motive. I never said that she enjoyed doing it, only that she did it because she thought it was the right thing to do. She could be inclined to not give, but feel compelled by her respect for her moral principles. So you're attacking a straw man.
If we go by your definition of good, than people like Hitler could be called good, because he thought his actions were making the world a better place...Motive doesn't matter.
I didn't say that any motive is good. Just that the morality, good or bad, lies in the motive. In order for something to be morally praiseworthy, it must be the right thing and done for the right reason. Hitler did the wrong thing for the wrong reason.
If your enemy puts sugar in your coffee by accident intending to poison you...
Then they have committed a morally wrong act.
...your friend putting poison in your coffee because she tried to help you have sweet coffee.
Your friend has not committed a morally wrong action, because they did not intend kill you. This would be an amoral action.
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@MonkeyKing
I don't think the posts in this thread have helped you much so I will take a risk and just pseudo-diagnose you as a so called internet professor.
You have what is known professionally as dysthymia or more colloquially as either 'mild depression' (though it isn't all that mild) and/or persistent depressive disorder. The key aspects of this that differ it to clinical depression are the lack of genuine suicidal impulses, plans etc and also a general numbness, as opposed to either deep sadness or fury, that goes with typical depression.
The reason I am so utterly sure you have this is both knowledge of the thing as well as having lived with it for a huge part of my life (the only other parts were before it and when it got so bad I was depressed). Until I realised that I had this, I was both in how I went about life and in general, a loser by choice (ironic, considering what it does).
You will remain a loser by choice until you choose not to be and ironically the way to get over this, aside from mild antidepressant medication, is to accept that you actually are lazy and enjoy being it.
You may firmly believe you are not 'lazy' but what I can tell you is that when you have that kind of mild depression, what you don't realise is the way your brain has formed pleasure; from not having to worry and getting fast rewards for minimal effort. The plus side is people like this are brilliant at never overly fucking up something, the downside is they don't tend to overly master anything either.
You are wired to be a jack of all trades because you enjoy trying very little and getting medium-to-high reward disproportionate to your effort as you are so intelligent and capable at that as a child and young teen that you never learned the need for grit etc.
I reckon you never will get out of it completely, you can't change who you are or how you derive pleasure but in terms of the constant lack of pleasure and motivation, that part is both biochemical and psychological. If you can't see a professional psychiatrist, I know that in the US you can easily get something called St. John's Wort over the counter at pharmacies and it is in fact listed as a food supplement (wrongly). It is in fact a powerful medication, so start at the lowest dose available before being sure you want it or not. Do not have it if you are currently significantly alcoholic, frequently getting high or have any (and I mean any) kind of blood pressure and heart issues. Since I think you are male, I won't go into other reasons not to have it. Don't have it if you have other medication without consulting a professional first (the staff at the pharmacy can be a good place to start but in US they are trained to think of it as only a food supplement so it depends how well-researched they are beyond their core training).
Another thing is vitamin D and Iron, you sound like someone who lacks both. Omega 3 tablets can help too (or just eating a lot more fish than you currently do), despite being land mammals, we evolved while eating fish in many different cultures so our stomachs and bodies are very positive in response to it much more so than to any land animals' meat, in fact.
Diet, accepting what you are and appreciating you genuinely are depressed (just not so severely so that you can call it clinical depression) will deeply help you enter a mind frame where decisions become more pleasurable to make, leading to you fearing making them less etc etc
Also, try and 'do more' every day. Whenever you catch yourself just thinking about things, do anything even an unhealthy habit like gaming is better than the constant moping. Your mind's overthinking is currently dragging you down, or so I believe.