9sk Special Edition: Undefeatable Vs Intelligence Video Game Debate Revived

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Hello everyone, and welcome back to 9sk news. Here we have a special edition, with Undefeatable believing his debate potentially worthy of Hall of Fame, since his opponent admitted the same in the comment section.

Half a year ago, what is probably DART's most controversial debate popped into view: Undefeatable vs Intelligence_06. The topic was fresh: U.S. K-12 Public Schools Should Incorporate More Video Games in Their Curriculum, with only 3,000 characters per round over three rounds. Though the debate was short, opinion varied severely. Had it not been the seven point system, Undefeatable would've contradicted his name yet again. Let's see what people said and why they said so.

Supporting Intelligence
- Benjamin had thought that Con's necessity argument won the debate, noting it is one of the most interesting he had ever read, giving sources to Pro. 
- Fruit Inspector went deep into the sources, penalizing Pro for them, and feeling they worked against and undermined his case.
- Fauxlaw focused on the Law implementation part of the debate. The Requirement of legality made him believe the sources were thus poor in his view.
- Danielle argues that the burden of proof to argue for incorporation is failed, since Pro did not show the unique values of video games. She also gives sources as Con seems to lack on those.
- Mr. Chris judged as a cost-benefit debate like Whiteflame, however, he seems to see that Pro drops the necessity argument, and that Con essentially implied that the same benefit can be achieved through cheaper means. 
- Nyxified, though in a rush, put together a document longer than the entire debate. She points out that con stacks up far more arguments especially in rebuttal, overcoming Pro's constructive and defensive case.

_____________________________________________________________
Supporting Undefeatable
- Whiteflame agreed with Pro's net-balance framework, feeling that Con didn't have any unique heft to his case.
- TheWeakerEdge gave all points but spelling and grammar, sayin that Pro has a lot of solid foundation, compared to con's assertions and seemingly irrelevant arguments.
- RationalMadMan talked about pragmatism vs principles, and says the ending saw an overturn, with Con failing to complete the project-based learning counterplan. With no concrete data or research, plus the last round new arguments, Con loses in his view.
- BringerofRain, also known as Wylted, found that Pro's showing of academic performance very clear. He viewed Con's argument as trying to show cost of putting video games (nigh to none), causing him to lose the debate.
- FourTrouble doesn't give a full RFD, but quickly dismisses Con's argument by stating the necessity idea is one of the worst he's seen. He thinks the net benefit concession basically implicates an automatic loss. 
- Coal says that there is clear evidence from pro, without mentioning what Con's rebuttals mean to him. It seems that he considers Con's case quite weak as well.
- Roy Latham, though not on DART, agrees that unnecessary is a poor argument. The references were also said to be superior, and that Con depended on the presumption on how games already were. 

My personal view point is also siding with pro, as I feel like most of Con's substance was majorly in round 3, where Pro couldn't respond. He requires a presumed bias that the lawmaking automatically means the games must be needed or required. But Pro's case seemed to be an optional idea and thus focused on the net benefit (unique or not). 

Some valuable people who have stayed silent are Ragnar, Oromagi, Blamonkey. We await to see if any other analysis breaks through this debate. What's everyone's thoughts on this debate? 
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@blamonkey
@Barney
@oromagi
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@Bones
come, come, everyone on the leaderboard. If we ignore Roy's opinion since it included so much extra talk, this debate would still be a 6:6. I am biased towards pro position so I am not sure how exactly to weigh the final round. What does everyone think of the top debater's accusations that Con's argument is incredibly weak? What about the other people who sided against Pro?

I seem to get the impression that most people who agree with Pro are already inherently Liberal/Democrat, while the ones voting for Con are already conservative/Republican. I'm not sure if the 3k character limit forced voters to rely on presumptions on what the debaters were saying.
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I'll keep it short. 

Undefeatable R1

  1. Opens with studies which support the notion that videogames are beneficial. Simple
  2. Pre-rebutts the common belief that video games are not inherently evil. 
Intel R1

  1. Video games, though beneficial, are not necessary. 
    1. If learning is already fun, there is no need for video games
  2. The games that are used are not enjoyed by children i.e., blasting asteroids by answering maths equations. 
  3. Video games cause problems such as
    1. competition 
    2. price
Verdict

  • Undefeatables first argument is simple, though work needs to be done, as intel buys it, and builds his primary argument on the notion that even IF videogames are beneficial, they are not necessary. 
  • I buy intels necessity argument. As a comparison, doing 5000 push ups everyday is beneficial for health, yet school would never (I would think) impose this in their physical education classes as it is not necessary for the purpose of physical education. Furthermore, consider typing at a high speed. Being able to type 130 WPM is certainly beneficial but it shouldn't be a mandate that they hold their students at. 
    • However, I do think this point can be implemented better, and the above issue I pose could be better articulated. Thus far, the necessity argument revolves around students association with video games, vice versa. 
  • I don't buy intels 2nd argument. Though it is true that games which schools employ are can be unenjoyable, the studies clearly indicate that they benefit students learning. In education, enjoyment is not the key factor. Just like how grinding out maths equations can be "boring", video games of which are not considered the "highest tier" do not need to be entertaining. So long as they are beneficial, they can substitute tradition means of learning.
Undefeatable R2

  1. Begins by rebutting the necessity argument. They quote intel 
    1. If so, kids will either associate learning with video games, expecting fun games to cover all kinds of materials taught ever; or they will associate video games with learning, hating school because the games suck. 
  2. and assert that false expectations of intense Gulag battles during class can be avoided if teachers properly warn their students what is to come.
Intel R2

  1. Affirms the necessity argument. 
    1. The two arguments Pro has presented are both of that the correct video games will enhance the learning experience, but nowhere that they are essential. Bottom line: If the effects of video games in school can be replaced by something that can be accomplished by a teacher, a staple of paper, and a single screen, then there is no need for video games because obviously, the latter is MUCH more expensive, with devices minimum at the number of a single class.
  2. and takes the route which I wished to see from above. Instead of focusing on how trash video games will makes students think school is, likewise, trash Intel focuses on the point that video games are not necessary, and that the current means of education suffice. 
  3. Introduces the idea of the Law. Intel points out that the description calls for a mandatory statute that video games be implemented into the school curricula. Video games can be helpful, but they are not a necessity that is to be enforced by legal mandate. 
Verdict 

  • As Intel switched up their argument into my desired route (focusing more on necessity rather than the linkage of emotion between video games and learning), the debate boils down to how Undefeatable can respond, as this is quite a different perspective than the one introduced in the first round. 
Undefeatable R3

  1. Opens once more by affirming the notion that video games are correlated with higher academic achievement. This does not rebut the necessity argument, Intel's argument grants that this is true, and builds on the idea that even if video games are beneficial, they are not necessary. 
  2. This notion is further supported by Undefeatable rebutting Intel's statement that the "practicality in Virtuality: Finding Student Meaning in Video Game Education" is not relevant to the debate. He aptly replies "Con decides that he is more credible than experts". 
Intel R3

  1. As alluded to above, the necessity argument is not rebutted. Intel points out that he agrees that video games can be beneficial, but asserts that they are not a necessary part of education. 
Verdict 

I would have voted for Intel. His argument from necessity was constantly (misintentionally, I think) misinterpreted. Though video games are beneficial, they are not a necessary tool for learning. Hence the resolution fails. 

8 days later

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@gugigor
Just saw this now, but also I do have to say, were it not for creating that doc, I would've given the win to Undefeatable. At face value, con presents so much poor quality or outright incorrect/irrelevant claims, but within the argument there was enough substance of good quality that pro failed to defeat while failing to defend their own arguments.

79 days later

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@whiteflame
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@RationalMadman
Almost certainly. I'll keep an eye on it.
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@Bones
The word 'necessity' never appears once in the resolution. 

Should vs need are not identical.