Should a 2 million Pop swap take place between the US and Puerto Rico

Author: TheUnderdog

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Pop swap definition: sending a native born of place A to place B and sending a native of place B to place A.

My idea is to implement a 4 million person pop swap between the US and Puerto Rico.  This means that 2 million consenting Puerto Ricans move to the US and 2 million consenting Americans move to Puerto Rico.  The purpose of this is to assiliminate the Puerto Ricans who move to the US by exposing them to anglophones and to make Puerto Rico into a more American, anglophone place by sending 2 million English speakers there which can set up PR becoming a state in the near future.

People would consent to the idea by them being offered enough money to move from PR to the US or vice versa.  Puerto Ricans would want the better opportunity in the US, Americans would want the tropical climate in PR.  Statehood for the island and privatization of government companies would reduce costs for the people in PR whether they be Anglophone of Hispanophone.

This I think can benefit everyone involved.
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@TheUnderdog
If the purpose is to make Puerto Ricans more like continental Americans than I think the purpose is already accomplished. 5.5 million people who identify as Puerto Rican live in the 50 states compared to 3 million on the actual island.  Puerto Ricans in the 50 states commonly move back to Puerto Rico at some point so there is already very significant cultural transmission.  English is a mandatory high school course although most Puerto Ricans prefer Spanish at home, along with about 13% of all Americans.  I'd say your plan has already been implemented- 2/3rds of Puerto Ricans are already living in the US and speaking English.

Let's get statehood accomplished for Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands as soon as possible.
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@TheUnderdog
Pop swap definition: sending a native born of place A to place B and sending a native of place B to place A.

My idea is to implement a 4 million person pop swap between the US and Puerto Rico.  This means that 2 million consenting Puerto Ricans move to the US and 2 million consenting Americans move to Puerto Rico.  The purpose of this is to assiliminate the Puerto Ricans who move to the US by exposing them to anglophones and to make Puerto Rico into a more American, anglophone place by sending 2 million English speakers there which can set up PR becoming a state in the near future.

People would consent to the idea by them being offered enough money to move from PR to the US or vice versa.  Puerto Ricans would want the better opportunity in the US, Americans would want the tropical climate in PR.  Statehood for the island and privatization of government companies would reduce costs for the people in PR whether they be Anglophone of Hispanophone.

This I think can benefit everyone involved.

This is a ridiculously stupid idea. Especially since your a libertarian, people who believe that the government shouldnt facilitate this type of things.

Puetro Rico can stay the way it is, america can stay the way it is, no need to import 2 million puetro ricans for noting, plus most peurto ricans dont care for the "better opportunity" most immigrants are on welfare


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80% of Puerto Ricans living in Puerto Rico don't know English and this is a problem.  The virgin islands are too small to be a state.  PR and the US VI should merge.
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This is a ridiculously stupid idea. Especially since your a libertarian, people who believe that the government shouldnt facilitate this type of things.
The cost of this idea would be less than 1% of the annual US military budget.

no need to import 2 million puetro ricans for noting, plus most peurto ricans dont care for the "better opportunity" most immigrants are on welfare
This is false; they fled PR's high taxes.
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Added08.04.21 02:45PM
-->@oromagi
80% of Puerto Ricans living in Puerto Rico don't know English and this is a problem. 
Nonsense.  You are subtracting the 24% English fluency rate from the general pop but all Puerto Ricans study English in school so the overwhelming majority have reasonable English comprehension even if they speak Spanish by choice and are more fluent in Spanish.  Although Spanish speaking TV stations are the  most popular, networks like FOX do just fine broadcasting in English.

The virgin islands are too small to be a state.  PR and the US VI should merge.
That is why I included VI in a discussion re: PR.

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@oromagi
 You are subtracting the 24% English fluency rate from the general pop but all Puerto Ricans study English in school so the overwhelming majority have reasonable English comprehension even if they speak Spanish by choice and are more fluent in Spanish.
Claiming that Puerto Ricans have reasonable English comprehension because they take the language in school and now some English is like saying America is fluent in Spanish because people learn it in school.

Pretty much every kid learned some English or Spanish worldwide in school.  That doesn't mean they are fluent in the language.  If more Puerto Ricans know English than any other language, than I would say Puerto Rico is an English speaking place.  In the meantime, they should assiliminate to the English language.
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-->@oromagi
 You are subtracting the 24% English fluency rate from the general pop but all Puerto Ricans study English in school so the overwhelming majority have reasonable English comprehension even if they speak Spanish by choice and are more fluent in Spanish.
Claiming that Puerto Ricans have reasonable English comprehension because they take the language in school and now some English is like saying America is fluent in Spanish because people learn it in school.
Not even close.  IF US schoolchildren were required to take a Spanish course K-12 and Spanish were one of two official languages in the US so that government documents were published in both languages and 2/3rds of all people who identified as Americans lived spent some or all of their lives in Spanish speaking countries, then THAT would be the equivalent of claiming that Puerto Ricans have reasonable English comprehension.

Pretty much every kid learned some English or Spanish worldwide in school.  That doesn't mean they are fluent in the language.  If more Puerto Ricans know English than any other language, than I would say Puerto Rico is an English speaking place.  In the meantime, they should assiliminate to the English language.
Unlike most Americans, Puerto Rico did not chose US citizenship so I would say they do not share the ordinary immigrant's obligation to assimilate.  Nevertheless, I would argue that the average Puerto Rican is already well assimilated and point to many representative  outstanding citizens like Lin Manuel-Miranda, Bruno Mars, Carmelo Anthony, Rosario Dawson, Luis Guzman, Aubrey Plaza, Benicio del Toro, Roberto Clemente, Jimmy Smits, Bad Bunny, etc as examples.
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@oromagi
 IF US schoolchildren were required to take a Spanish course K-12 and Spanish were one of two official languages in the US so that government documents were published in both languages and 2/3rds of all people who identified as Americans lived spent some or all of their lives in Spanish speaking countries
US children primarily take Spanish as a foreign language, Spanish is one of the 2 official languages of New Mexico, yet I wouldn't call the typical person there fluent in Spanish as most New Mexicans aren't.  I also don't believe the majority of Puerto Ricans have spent a significant amount of time in the US as they would almost certainly know English if they did.

Unlike most Americans, Puerto Rico did not chose US citizenship so I would say they do not share the ordinary immigrant's obligation to assimilate.
which this contradicts your claim here:

 but all Puerto Ricans study English in school so the overwhelming majority have reasonable English comprehension

Nevertheless, I would argue that the average Puerto Rican is already well assimilated and point to many representative  outstanding citizens like Lin Manuel-Miranda, Bruno Mars, Carmelo Anthony, Rosario Dawson, Luis Guzman, Aubrey Plaza, Benicio del Toro, Roberto Clemente, Jimmy Smits, Bad Bunny, etc as examples.
There are some wealthy Puerto Ricans that were able to move to the US and assiliminate.  This does not represent the majority of Puerto Ricans.  The Puerto Ricans should assiliminate.
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The cost of this idea would be less than 1% of the annual US military budget.

this isnt about cost, this is about the libertarian argument of "government shouldn't incentivize behavior" if you do this, you are literally incentivizing people to leave the US.

This is false; they fled PR's high taxes.
oh dear, no-"high taxes" isnt why they fled. They fled because their country is a shithole.
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@Dr.Franklin
this isnt about cost, this is about the libertarian argument of "government shouldn't incentivize behavior" if you do this, you are literally incentivizing people to leave the US.
I don't agree with libertarianism on everything, but merely most things.

oh dear, no-"high taxes" isnt why they fled. They fled because their country is a shithole.
It's a shithole because Puerto Ricans pay high taxes for nationalized services that are of poor quality.
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I don't agree with libertarianism on everything, but merely most things
um ok, you dont agree when it interferes with your weird plans

t's a shithole because Puerto Ricans pay high taxes for nationalized services that are of poor quality.
NOOOO, its not because of high taxes, its because its a homicidal culture


81.9
Ranked 7th. 26% more than United States
65.22
Ranked 44th.

81.9
Ranked 8th. 47% more than United States
55.84
Ranked 30th.

4.9%
Ranked 7th.
13.7%
Ranked 1st. 3 times more than Puerto Rico

Fear of crime > Feels safe walking alone > At night
18.1
Ranked 84th.
41.84
Ranked 60th. 2 times more than Puerto Rico

Fear of crime > Feels safe walking alone > During the day
55.26
Ranked 78th.
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Ranked 57th. 36% more than Puerto Rico
13.79
Ranked 88th.
32.55
Ranked 31st. 2 times more than Puerto Rico

60.78
Ranked 13th. 44% more than United States
42.08
Ranked 43th.

20.3
Ranked 23th. 3 times more than United States
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Ranked 63th.

Murders > WHO
18.9
Ranked 25th. 3 times more than United States
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Ranked 88th.

75
Ranked 11th.
75.54
Ranked 10th. 1% more than Puerto Rico

14.6
Ranked 11th. 3 times more than United States
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Ranked 7th.
983
Ranked 22nd.
12,996
Ranked 9th. 13 times more than Puerto Rico
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Ranked 12th. 6 times more than United States
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Ranked 43th.
983
Ranked 22nd.
12,996
Ranked 9th. 13 times more than Puerto Rico
264.16
Ranked 12th. 6 times more than United States
42.01
Ranked 43th.

#13
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Moving millions of people is a monumental undertaking that would be extremely disruptive and expensive.
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It's not that expensive.  It would be disruptive in the short term, but in the long term, America culturally gains the island and more people learn English as a result.
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 IF US schoolchildren were required to take a Spanish course K-12 and Spanish were one of two official languages in the US so that government documents were published in both languages and 2/3rds of all people who identified as Americans lived spent some or all of their lives in Spanish speaking countries
US children primarily take Spanish as a foreign language,
Apples to Oranges.  Only 18.5% of mainland schoolchildren study any foreign language K-12.  You are falsely comparing ALL PR schoolchildren taking 13 years of English language by law vs. 1 in 5 mainland students studying Spanish for a year or two.

Spanish is one of the 2 official languages of New Mexico, yet I wouldn't call the typical person there fluent in Spanish as most New Mexicans aren't. 
50% of New Mexican are Hispanic and about 80% of that group speaks Spanish "very well."  The State Constitution requires laws to published in Spanish, schools are required to provide Spanish speaking teachers and in court one may defend oneself or testify in Spanish.  If you've spent much time in the population centers (Albuquerque, Las Cruces, Santa Fe) you'd know that one can manage quite nicely in any of these cities speaking Spanish entirely or English.  Fluent is Spanish is a rather high bar (I am not claiming that Puerto RIcans are fluent in English either but only better at English than the average ESL immigrant and therefore, well assimilated) but the average New Mexican knows a hell of a lot more Spanish than the average American.  New Mexico was even more Spanish speaking when it became a State.  If New Mexicans were sufficiently assimilated to merit Statehood in 1912, I'd argue that Puerto RIco is more assimilated and therefore ready for Statehood now.

I also don't believe the majority of Puerto Ricans have spent a significant amount of time in the US as they would almost certainly know English if they did.
Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant to the fact that Puerto Ricans have a long tradition of circular migration to and from the mainland.  At present about 5.9 million who id as Puerto Rican live on the mainland compared 3.1 million on the island. Only 20% of Puerto Ricans say they speak English "less than very well."  That's way higher than any other Hispanic group- 80% speak English very well or at least they think they do.
Unlike most Americans, Puerto Rico did not chose US citizenship so I would say they do not share the ordinary immigrant's obligation to assimilate.
which this contradicts your claim here:

 but all Puerto Ricans study English in school so the overwhelming majority have reasonable English comprehension
No contradiction there.  Puerto Ricans strive to assimilate in spite of  not being obligated.  This same embrace of the American mainstream is demonstrated by the fact that Puerto Ricans join the military at higher rates than any other group.
Nevertheless, I would argue that the average Puerto Rican is already well assimilated and point to many representative  outstanding citizens like Lin Manuel-Miranda, Bruno Mars, Carmelo Anthony, Rosario Dawson, Luis Guzman, Aubrey Plaza, Benicio del Toro, Roberto Clemente, Jimmy Smits, Bad Bunny, etc as examples.
There are some wealthy Puerto Ricans that were able to move to the US and assiliminate.  This does not represent the majority of Puerto Ricans.  The Puerto Ricans should assiliminate.
65% of all Puerto Ricans live on the mainland now, twice as many as live on the island. 80% of Puerto Ricans speak good English.   The overwhelming majority of Puerto Ricans have lived some part of their life on the mainland.  I would say that Puerto Ricans are already very well assimilated and indeed established in American Society.  Your proposal will probably fulfill itself naturally and without any govt spending if you just wait a few years.

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The cost of this idea would be less than 1% of the annual US military budget.

this isnt about cost, this is about the libertarian argument of "government shouldn't incentivize behavior" if you do this, you are literally incentivizing people to leave the US.
Puerto Rico is part of the USA.
This is false; they fled PR's high taxes.
oh dear, no-"high taxes" isnt why they fled. They fled because their country is a shithole.
Their country is the USA.
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It's a shithole because Puerto Ricans pay high taxes for nationalized services that are of poor quality.

This is quite false, man.  Puerto Rico is a famous tax haven because "Not all Puerto Rican employees and corporations pay federal income taxes. Federal law requires payment of federal income tax from the following residents and corporations only: federal government employees in Puerto Rico,  residents who are members of the United States military, those with income sources outside of Puerto Rico, those individuals or corporations who do business with the federal government, and those Puerto Rico-based corporations that intend to send funds to the United States."  Therefore, Puerto Rico is a popular place to retire- it's cheap and Federal taxes are easily avoided.  

Puerto Rico is not a foreign country.  There are no nationalized services beyond the Federal services mostly shared in common with the rest of their fellow citizens.

Puerto Rico is traditionally the number one tourist destination in the Caribbean, it competes with Cuba but benefits from America's bad relationship with Cuba.  Puerto Rico is famous for its beaches, its fishing, it's surfing, San Juan is certainly the nicest city of any size in the Caribbean, with cruise ships stopping every night and famous eating and music , the rum-making capitol of the world, a rich history going back to Columbus and twenty casinos.  Americans also like it because its cheap and you need no passport and everybody speaks pretty good English.  I don't think anybody has any reasonable grounds to call it a shithole anything but the country is America, just for your information, and the people want to be our 51st State.
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territory
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@TheUnderdog
This is false; they fled PR's high taxes.

Isn't PR literally a tax haven?

It's a shithole because Puerto Ricans pay high taxes for nationalized services that are of poor quality.

Lots of countries with higher taxes have much better infrastructure than us. Clearly, that's not it.

My idea is to implement a 4 million person pop swap between the US and Puerto Rico. 
Hmmm, importing crime and exporting productivity. I'll pass

19 days later

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Isn't PR literally a tax haven?

Lots of countries with higher taxes have much better infrastructure than us. Clearly, that's not it.
It's that PR's nationalized companies produce terrible services while costing the taxpayer lots of money.  This is also why California is failing.

Hmmm, importing crime and exporting productivity. I'll pass
People act different when they are in different environments.  For example, Elon Musk would be much more poor if not allowed to move.  When he's allowed to move, he earns more money.  It's similar with the people that would come to the US.  They chose to move so they know it would be better for them if they did.  People tend to earn more money when allowed to work in America and this reduces America's need to pay for Puerto Rican welfare.  Plus this idea would help red pill PR by bringing innovative Americans to the island to develop it and this would be good for the economy.