Government wants to control your life?

Author: Double_R

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#1
Double_R
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This is a talking point I hear constantly from the right; the idea that “the left”, or “the government” just wants to control our lives.

Is the idea here the democratic politicians pass, say a mask mandate, not because they believe masks will help slow the spread of the virus but because they get a hard-on being able to make people do something they otherwise wouldn’t have done? Do they walk into a grocery store and see everyone with their masks on and boast to their wives saying “see, I did that”?

Is there anyone on this site who can explain the rationale here?

P.S. this isn’t about mask mandates, I’m just using that as an example. Thanks.
#2
FLRW
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@Double_R
The U.S. Supreme Court in the case of Jacobson v. Massachusetts upheld the constitutionality of mandatory smallpox vaccination programs to preserve the public health.
#3
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@Double_R
Any time the government can make the case that you are too stupid to take care of yourself, democracy is irrelevant.
#4
fauxlaw
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@Double_R
Dr Fauci: "I am Science."
Seems about as governmentally superior, i.e., controlling, as anything I've ever heard from a government representative. I'm only surprised he has not yet thought of wearing a mask like a diaper.
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#5
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
So which of the following two scenarios would you prefer:

A) No government action, 3,000 automobile accident deaths

B) Law mandating seatbelts, 2,000 automobile accident deaths

?

Q2: How does choice B make democracy irrelevant?
#6
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@Double_R
personally, I believe that the government isnt the major problem here
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#7
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@Greyparrot
And BTW, people are often too stupid to make their own decisions. That’s just a fact.

“I’m admitting young healthy people to the hospital with very serious COVID infections. One of the last things they do before they’re intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I’m sorry, but it’s too late”

Whether government should step in is another question, and it’s situational. This though has little to do with the narrative that government just wants to control your life, unless by that you mean government wants you to stay alive, which is a pretty terrible argument against government.
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@fauxlaw
Seems about as governmentally superior, i.e., controlling, as anything I've ever heard from a government representative.
It sounds like a pretty arrogant statement to make, but considering he is the nation’s leading infectious disease expert so he would literally be the one person who gets a pass. Not sure what that has to do with government just wanting to control us.
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He is infectious. An expert, with a statement like that; nope. There a distinction between knowledge and wisdom. Knowing is not nearly half the battle. Hint: the NIAID is a government agency.
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@Double_R
And BTW, people are often too stupid to make their own decisions. That’s just a fact.

That's why democracy isn't a thing.
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@Greyparrot
That's why democracy isn't a thing.
absolutely, democracy never existed
#12
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@fauxlaw
“Wisdom” is often used by those who have enough self-awareness to realise they aren’t intelligent, but not enough to know they’re ignorant. 
#13
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@Double_R
Is there anyone on this site who can explain the rationale here?
I don't see any indication of a rationale or a consistent application of principle.  Republicans believe that government should be small when collecting taxes or regulating the fossil fuel industry or for emergency assistance  but they also believe that government should be big when it comes to military spending, or teaching about racism in school, or when women want to end their pregnancies, or when gays want to get married, or when local governments want to regulate guns, or telling transgender schoolchildren which teams they may or may not play on.

 Nixon, Reagan-Bush, Bush, and Trump all grew the size of government substantially during their terms of office. There were 500,000 fewer govt employees when Clinton left office.  Obama shrank the ratio of government employees to citizens by 2.7%  Democrats are the party of rational downsizing of government for the sake of improved efficiency.  We've done it, we've proved it.  Republicans are the party of saying one thing but doing something altogether different.

What could be bigger government than  lying to the US about the cause and purpose of the Iraq War, spending trillions without accountability or much oversight?  What could be bigger government than Jan 6th?  Trump, as the Federal Chief Executive sends an armed mob to interrupt and try to terminate the States' right to determine who sits in the  Chief Executive's chair?  Republicans don't have a problem with big govt.   Ultimately, Republicans are against mask wearing because Trump was against mask wearing because masks smeared his carefully applied face makeup.  That's bad  big government in a nutshell- a whole mob of blind followers who don't even consider self-interest, just believe what they are told to believe, even when the cause is the most cosmetic reason possible.

Looking at Cliven Bundy- his entire business model as a rancher depended on taxpayer funding and maintenance of federal grazing lands but when it came paying the taxes and fees he owes us for all that rangeland we made safe and profitable for him, Bundy goes to war.  Republicans are all for imminent domain when it means  seizing Native American reservation land to support an oil pipeline but then contract out the power grid in Texas and fail to care when that system implodes. Once Republicans get theirs, they're out.    Republicans 100% need and expect big government to deliver on their priorities but then use fear of big government to cheap out on benefits for the majority of Americans.

It's just an argument of convenience, Republicans gave up on principles years ago.

#14
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@Double_R
  Pretty much every law has some rationale behind it. The point is I think, that the result is more government control into formerly independent aspects of our lives. 

  In the USSR, article 58 was created for the purpose of rooting out counter revolutionaries: there's the rationale. The result however, was crowding untold numbers of non-criminals, political dissidents, into gulags. Sounds like a pretty controlling government.
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@fauxlaw
-->@Double_R
Dr Fauci: "I am Science."
citation please
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@Dr.Franklin
People are too stupid to even know when the government is controlling them.
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@Greyparrot
yeah people are dumb
#18
zedvictor4
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What an amazing hotchpotch of ideas.
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@fauxlaw
Dr Fauci: "I am Science."
"If you disagree with me you disagree with science."

Talk about the ultimate scam of appeal to authority.
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#20
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@Greyparrot
Fauci was saying that the points he is making are consistent with science, so to disagree with one is to necessarily disagree with the other.

I’m not surprised however that such a statement would get twisted and then turned into a right wing talking point against Fauci. Because health experts are the enemy now, that’s how ridiculous the right has become.

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#21
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@Sum1hugme
Pretty much every law has some rationale behind it. The point is I think, that the result is more government control into formerly independent aspects of our lives. 
That’s not what I’m referring to. I watch enough Fox News and consume enough Twitter to get a sense of what the talking points are and this is perhaps the one I hear most frequently. It isn’t arguing that the result is more government control, it’s arguing that the left is motivated by having power over us, which can then explain everything we see coming from the left.

I used masks as the example; it couldn’t possibly be that the left believes mask mandates will help keep people safe and the right simply disagrees with that premise… that’s not scary enough. The left has to be evil. They must be doing this for some nefarious purpose. They must be trying to control us all… or something.

It almost makes sense intuitively until one stops to think about it for, say, three seconds. Maybe four. Which brings me to the OP.
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#22
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@Greyparrot
So which of the following two scenarios would you prefer:

A) No government action, 3,000 automobile accident deaths

B) Law mandating seatbelts, 2,000 automobile accident deaths

?

Q2: How does choice B make democracy irrelevant?
[crickets]
…
#23
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So which of the following two scenarios would you prefer:

A) No government action, 3,000 automobile accident deaths

B) Law mandating seatbelts, 2,000 automobile accident deaths
Honestly, I'm not going to move to a different state over this. 

Wearing a seatbelt is a matter of personal responsibility.  I don't believe in trying to quantify human life.  
#24
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I'd have a preference to be where people drive safely because they value other members of their community.  I suppose the metric this would translate to is having less traffic accidents, but accidents are also associated with the infrastructure and type of vehicle people are using, so maybe it's more practical to just base it off perception.
#25
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@zedvictor4
What an amazing hotchpotch of ideas
Or as Zed would say, stupid is as dumb  does.

Trumpets Trumpeteer cult followers make clear the situation they find themselves in posts #16 and 17.

Lets see now, we can add mesmer to that list, and _______ and ______ and _______.

Being aware of their --ones-- defects is half way to curing them.  So it appears they are half-way there. Or are they?

I they also Qanon cult followers? Of course they are. 

If USA government doesnt want more of their type, then the better do a better job controling education malfunctions/defects.

Genetrics > parents > peers > education > government > business. Is that the correct order? No, not if the child watches tv, or nowdays I guess it is the internet.

Genetics > parents > internet > ___ and ____ and ____

Is government controling the internet?   Whats the differrence between regulating and controling?  Who sees  more conspiracies  --perceived real, real, not real---   than others?  Who is taught moral, critical thinking, etc?

Who is controling the governement?  Right? Left? Business right, business left? 




#26
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@Double_R
It is no secret that many on the Left are pushing for Socialism. This would lead to extreme government control over the lives of individuals. That being said, the idea that certain governmental authorities from a particular party are trying to assert more control over our lives is undeniable based on their own ideology.

It also seems uncontroversial to say that many governmental authorities have historically sought more and more power, and this has led to oppression of the people throughout history.

In the U.S. today, there are many of us who view recent events as a power grab by governmental authorities that will eventually lead to oppression of the people. Even if we're wrong (though it daily seems more apparent we are not), there is a historical precedent to governmental overreach that at least makes our suspicion rational.
#27
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@Fruit_Inspector
at least makes our suspicion rational.
Or just anti-social.  I remmeber as a child, the public grade school had these ice cream socials, where parents were invited to participate.

Now I see, that it clear from the anti-social types, that the government was attepting to lure in the parents control them and the children at same time on public school ground.

I think Ive seen this same scenario in various science-fiction movies, like the Stepford Wives, and The Body Snatchers etc.  It is clear now, the government is the lizard people attemting to contol us rabbits and stop us from our contnual overpopulating the Earth, with the systems of operation that are in place.

The rabbits will rise and again, triple the amount of humans on Earth in five years because its is Gods will and God controls the government.  Yeah, thats the ticket, yeah, it is becoming clear to those who  remain anti-social. 

#28
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@Double_R
Fauci was saying that the points he is making are consistent with science, so to disagree with one is to necessarily disagree with the other.
Says Fauci? Why is appeal to authority so rampant among Marxists?

 turned into a right wing talking point 
Why do you have to be so insufferably partisan? Is that a prerequisite for defending Authority?
#29
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…

Democracy is irrelevant because you just stated most people are too stupid to make democratic choices, about themselves OR you.
#30
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@Conway
I'd have a preference to be where people drive safely because they value other members of their community.  I suppose the metric this would translate to is having less traffic accidents, but accidents are also associated with the infrastructure and type of vehicle people are using, so maybe it's more practical to just base it off perception.

George Carlin noted that if you really wanted people to drive safely and stop texting and drinking, the government would mandate iron spikes installed in the center of the steering wheel instead of a forgiving airbag.