Patreon and useful updates?

Author: Lunatic

Posts

Total: 25
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6

Hi, I am making this forum in hopes that (was it Michael?) the owner of the website can see this and answer some questions. 

I think you have a great idea with the website, and the patreon is also a good idea. I have donated myself a few times to the patreon, but have stopped because it seems like the sole purpose of the patreon is to just float hosting costs. How interested would you be in making useful updates to the website based on member suggestions? If this was the case I would be a lot more willing to donate more consistently to the site if I thought something was being done to improve the site rather than just maintain it's existence. I can't speak for others but I'd guess you would get more people willing to donate to the patreon. 

One update I would like to see and feel like wouldn't be crazy expensive or hard to implement would be group messages, among other things.

Anyways, I just wanted to put it out there that I think you could probably not only make money for server costs but also make a little extra on the side if you were to implement community suggestions once in a while with the patreon page. Let me know what you think. 
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
It does say you get this with the level 1 subscription, but I am not sure I have actually seen it at work.

"Faster development of the new features and fixes for the existing ones."
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
Not only that but any website and artist that doesn't give privileges or exclusive access is running a system that is baaed on socialist philosophy, not capitalist, thus it's doomed to fail as a business model.

This is why OnlyFans is successful, it may be stupid and run on naive contributors who don't understand how futile what they're laying for is but the model is extremely pro-capitalism and that is why it succeeds.

Business models that give bigger rewards to bigger contributors almost always last.
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Lunatic
I think there should be a bigger "reward" for people who contribute to their patreon. I like your idea but I think there should be more of a reward. Anyone could give a suggestion that isn't a patreon and something the suggestions given are nearly impossible to implement (Mike was talking about how group PM's will take a long time to do in general).

I think there should be a credits page (a page dedicated to Patreon supporters). Right now if you donate money, you get coins added your account. I think there should be more of a reward system for Patreon that distinguishes their support.
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Vader
Simple site updates like the widely requested group messaging system would be enough to satisfy me
DebateArt.com
DebateArt.com's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,403
3
3
8
DebateArt.com's avatar
DebateArt.com
3
3
8
-->
@Lunatic
Thanks for bringing this up, that's an interesting topic. I will try to reply step by step.

I think you have a great idea with the website, and the patreon is also a good idea. I have donated myself a few times to the patreon, but have stopped because it seems like the sole purpose of the patreon is to just float hosting costs. How interested would you be in making useful updates to the website based on member suggestions? If this was the case I would be a lot more willing to donate more consistently to the site if I thought something was being done to improve the site rather than just maintain it's existence
The website is still actively developed, just not exactly fast considering that I have a daily work and unfortunately have only a couple of free hours in the evenings. For example, in the last 2-3 months, I've fixed a bunch of glitches on the forum,  made it much better optimised for mobile users and made some changes to the way things work. After that, I worked on the auth system, same stuff here, mobile and design optimisations and the most important one was adding invisible Google 3 captcha, to make it harder on bots. Also not super exciting feature, but quite needed. Now I am working on the profile pages, which don't even have a mobile version at all. You can check the main profile page here and see a new design, which is not only mobile optimised and better looking, but will also allow users to upload "wallpapers" or "banners", whatever they are called.

When it comes to the group messages, believe me or not, I already have the code for that, but my idea was to first clean up the office space first: remove all those sections like "My debates" and "My forum topics" and "My questions" and move all of them to the profile pages, so all this info is in one place. And after I'd refactor the activities section, to make it much better and properly structured, I was planning to steal some ideas from GitHub, and of course the chat, make it mobile friendly and add group messages. So the bottom line is that it's still very actively developed and Patreon is there not only to cover the hosting costs, but also to see that all this effort is appreciated at least by a few people  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

DebateArt.com
DebateArt.com's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,403
3
3
8
DebateArt.com's avatar
DebateArt.com
3
3
8
-->
@Vader
I think there should be a bigger "reward" for people who contribute to their patreon. I like your idea but I think there should be more of a reward. Anyone could give a suggestion that isn't a patreon and something the suggestions given are nearly impossible to implement (Mike was talking about how group PM's will take a long time to do in general).

I think there should be a credits page (a page dedicated to Patreon supporters). Right now if you donate money, you get coins added your account. I think there should be more of a reward system for Patreon that distinguishes their support.
That's true and I think the whole thing should be properly designed, coz it was added just as a quick solution and barely thought through. My current idea is:

  • Provide more interesting ways to spend credits, be it some decorations, just as you suggested, dedicated "supporters" website's areas (I believe Reddit has something like that) or maybe things like payment for votes, so that people can pay their credits to others to vote on the debates and therefore those people that get paid, can do the same for their debates and so on, so maybe it would make sense to have it as an internal currency, in a way. But also credits could be earned via on-site achievements and whatnot. But that's just a random idea, haven't thought properly about it. Anyway, I do realize that it needs to be properly designed.
  • Redesign Patreon tiers and provide different bonuses depending on the tier.
  • Check if Patreon provides a way to notify the server about the changes and have a dedicated credits page here, as you suggested. Or something of the kind. It all needs proper thinking. 

Bones
Bones's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 968
3
7
9
Bones's avatar
Bones
3
7
9
-->
@DebateArt.com
Moving profile pics would be cool. 
DebateArt.com
DebateArt.com's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,403
3
3
8
DebateArt.com's avatar
DebateArt.com
3
3
8
-->
@Bones
This one is probably controversial, there's lots of people that are annoyed by such things :/ 
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@DebateArt.com
To be quite frank I think decorative is the way to go in this situation. There's not much that you can instill site wise to give extra benefits to an user besides decorative stuff. Maybe they can be early testers so certain features? But yeah since this site is relatively close nit and most users know most users and that moderation is active and ownership is transparent, it would be hard to implement
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@DebateArt.com
The website is still actively developed, just not exactly fast considering that I have a daily work and unfortunately have only a couple of free hours in the evenings. 

I understand the issue with not having enough time. If you don't have time, you don't have time not much more to it than that. The site is free and a personal project you chose to do of your own volition, which we are greatful. I think the idea of the patreon is great, I am more just curious if you had like higher tiers other than the 3 dollars a month one if that would incentivize maybe a deeper interest in putting more of your valuale time into some of these developments?

For example, in the last 2-3 months, I've fixed a bunch of glitches on the forum,  made it much better optimised for mobile users and made some changes to the way things work. After that, I worked on the auth system, same stuff here, mobile and design optimisations and the most important one was adding invisible Google 3 captcha, to make it harder on bots. Also not super exciting feature, but quite needed. Now I am working on the profile pages, which don't even have a mobile version at all. You can check the main profile page here and see a new design, which is not only mobile optimised and better looking, but will also allow users to upload "wallpapers" or "banners", whatever they are called.

I am aware that you do put a lot of effort into fixng bugs. Some of those other features are pretty nifty as well, specifically having wallpapers and backgrounds, I always loved doing that on myspace back when it was big. 

When it comes to the group messages, believe me or not, I already have the code for that, but my idea was to first clean up the office space first: remove all those sections like "My debates" and "My forum topics" and "My questions" and move all of them to the profile pages, so all this info is in one place. And after I'd refactor the activities section, to make it much better and properly structured, I was planning to steal some ideas from GitHub, and of course the chat, make it mobile friendly and add group messages. 
It is good to know the code is ready for group messaging! That is one of the core features this website was missing in my opinion that DDO had. It will make mafia games much easier as well, and coordinating group events that don't neccesitate forums. Do you by chance have a tenative time line for the group messaging system being implemented or are you playing it by ear?

So the bottom line is that it's still very actively developed and Patreon is there not only to cover the hosting costs, but also to see that all this effort is appreciated at least by a few people  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Coming from DDO where there was literally no effort put into development for several years, I can say I am very greatful for the time and effort. It's good to know that there are still developments being worked on and not being maintained. I hope this forum didn't come across as me being ungrateful for any of it. On the contrary I am trying to say I'd be willing to pay more money to reward such efforts as long as it seemed there was a significant effort being made into developments from the patreon costs. 
DebateArt.com
DebateArt.com's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,403
3
3
8
DebateArt.com's avatar
DebateArt.com
3
3
8
-->
@Lunatic
I understand the issue with not having enough time. If you don't have time, you don't have time not much more to it than that. The site is free and a personal project you chose to do of your own volition, which we are greatful. I think the idea of the patreon is great, I am more just curious if you had like higher tiers other than the 3 dollars a month one if that would incentivize maybe a deeper interest in putting more of your valuale time into some of these developments?
Yeah, I will need to properly think it through and come up with a plan to restructure the whole thing, because it was added rather quickly and without much thought put into it.

I am aware that you do put a lot of effort into fixng bugs. Some of those other features are pretty nifty as well, specifically having wallpapers and backgrounds, I always loved doing that on myspace back when it was big. 
Soon you will be able to enjoy that again :)

It is good to know the code is ready for group messaging! That is one of the core features this website was missing in my opinion that DDO had. It will make mafia games much easier as well, and coordinating group events that don't neccesitate forums. Do you by chance have a tenative time line for the group messaging system being implemented or are you playing it by ear?
If to be honest, I didn't understand the question, could you please provide some example of what those tentative time lines are? I've never heard this term before.

Coming from DDO where there was literally no effort put into development for several years, I can say I am very greatful for the time and effort. It's good to know that there are still developments being worked on and not being maintained. I hope this forum didn't come across as me being ungrateful for any of it. On the contrary I am trying to say I'd be willing to pay more money to reward such efforts as long as it seemed there was a significant effort being made into developments from the patreon costs. 
No, it's me who is grateful that you are here :) And no, I didn't think that, no worries :)

But bluntly put, Patreon money will never be enough to hire an additional developer, for example. I could change the priorities of the features according to the donations, and most likely the extra money would go into advertising the site. 
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@DebateArt.com
If to be honest, I didn't understand the question, could you please provide some example of what those tentative time lines are? I've never heard this term before.
Rephrase: Do you have a guess for when the group messaging will be complete?

But bluntly put, Patreon money will never be enough to hire an additional developer, for example. I could change the priorities of the features according to the donations, and most likely the extra money would go into advertising the site. 
good to know.
Nyxified
Nyxified's avatar
Debates: 21
Posts: 224
2
3
9
Nyxified's avatar
Nyxified
2
3
9
-->
@DebateArt.com
Would you be open to accepting volunteers to help with the website and, if so, what kind of qualifications would they need?

I'm nowhere near qualified to do much of, well, anything when it comes to programming yet, but I'd love to help at a time in the future when I'm more capable.
DebateArt.com
DebateArt.com's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,403
3
3
8
DebateArt.com's avatar
DebateArt.com
3
3
8
-->
@Lunatic
Rephrase: Do you have a guess for when the group messaging will be complete?
Oh :/

I'll get to the office space redesign right after refactoring the profile pages, so I'd say in 2-3 months but I suck at estimations.
DebateArt.com
DebateArt.com's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,403
3
3
8
DebateArt.com's avatar
DebateArt.com
3
3
8
-->
@Nyxified
Would you be open to accepting volunteers to help with the website and, if so, what kind of qualifications would they need?

I'm nowhere near qualified to do much of, well, anything when it comes to programming yet, but I'd love to help at a time in the future when I'm more capable.
To be honest, I am not sure yet, I think the field where I'd definitely appreciate some help is testing new features coz sometimes the code changes are rather big and it's hard to be sure that stuff still works as expected, especially on different devices.
Nyxified
Nyxified's avatar
Debates: 21
Posts: 224
2
3
9
Nyxified's avatar
Nyxified
2
3
9
-->
@DebateArt.com
That's fair. I'm happy to be a test subject if there's anything I can do to help!

I've not been here long, but thanks for all you do for the site nonetheless. <3
DebateArt.com
DebateArt.com's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,403
3
3
8
DebateArt.com's avatar
DebateArt.com
3
3
8
-->
@Nyxified
No, thank you for being here :) I hope you are having a good time!

27 days later

TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@DebateArt.com
I noticed that DART got ads.  Congrats on your revenue source.
Bones
Bones's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 968
3
7
9
Bones's avatar
Bones
3
7
9
-->
@TheUnderdog
Really? I can't see any. 
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Bones
Check the right side of the debates tab.  I saw an ad there.
Bones
Bones's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 968
3
7
9
Bones's avatar
Bones
3
7
9
-->
@DebateArt.com

Moving profile pics would be cool. 
This one is probably controversial, there's lots of people that are annoyed by such things :/ 
Why is this. I'm sure you're aware of how discords moving profile works (moves when you hover your mouse over it) and I'm pretty sure that'll be cool. 
Bones
Bones's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 968
3
7
9
Bones's avatar
Bones
3
7
9
-->
@TheUnderdog
I've got 5 separate ad blockers operating on my browser, do I don't think ads will be coming through any day. 
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Bones
Oh.
DebateArt.com
DebateArt.com's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,403
3
3
8
DebateArt.com's avatar
DebateArt.com
3
3
8
-->
@TheUnderdog
Ads barely make any money, just extra few bucks to cover the hosting expenses.