I think they should be removed as they fought for slavery. but im not to educated on the topic of confederate statues.
Thoughts on toppling confederate statues?
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@drlebronski
To be fair, when you are radical enough, everyone seems like a pain in the ass.
To a twitter left radicalist, an LGBTQ hero making a homophobic content a few years ago is enough to stop supporting him/her/them.
To an American redneck hard rightist, even Chick-fil-a having a rainbow symbol would be enough to make them rage about it for an entire month.
To a white Protestant pastor, having a burger/BBQ restaurant next to the church would be enough for him to send a request to move it somewhere else.
To an anarchist, lecturing him about fundamental concepts of our realm would make him think that his fundamental rights are being violated.
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@Intelligence_06
That's pretty accurate lol especially the twitter one
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@drlebronski
To erase history with the intent to prevent its recurrence is the height of stupidity. Who would remember to avoid things we wish did not happen if it is erased from history?
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@fauxlaw
Xi Jinping, I guess.
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@fauxlaw
That's not erasing history i didn't learn about andrew jackson because of a few statues the history is still there a statue does not teach you about history.
Complicated.
Generally, I am not an admirer of the Roman tradition of Damnatio Memoirae and I stand on the principle that public art need not be popular or representative of popular values to merit a public display. Controversial, even offensive art is good for the democratic soul and tests our tolerance for unpopular opinion.
That said, I can't really fault some attacks upon and destructions of public art- usually in the wake of revolution.
- The destruction of the George III on Bowling Green at the reading of the Declaration of Independence, for example
- The removal of the James II from Whitehall after the Glorious Revolution.
- Tsar Nicolas II in St. Petersburg
- Stalin in Budapest 1956
- Saddam Hussein in Baghdad 2003
- Hitler pretty much everywhere
- etc.
So I acknowledge an exception clause for autocratic overthrows.
Confederate statues seemingly defy all the rules because while they are tributes to defeated enemy rulers, they were popularly erected well after the defeat as gestures of defiant anti-patriotism and an explicit threat to minority populations. I know of know other place or time in history where the commemoration of traitors is so well tolerated, perhaps to America's credit.
I certainly oppose the destruction of these works and my preference would be to allow them to stand in spite of their insult to our Republic and our democratic values. Still, how can I respect Berlin's right to remove Hitler from her sight and not respect Richmond's right to exile Lee? I would like to see municipalities approach the question as democratically as possible and in those places where the majority staunchly objects, I would suggest a respectful relocation to Museums where the effigies can be contextualized and not forgotten.
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@fauxlaw
Another point that i would make thanks to oromagi is that if you topple a statue of hitler are you really erasing history?
If you go to germany i can guarantee that you won't see one statue of hitler but instead will see those of people who went through the holocaust.
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@drlebronski
Statues hey.....Just another one of those ridiculous things that some humans feel the need to do.
Just ignore them.
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@zedvictor4
I mostly ignore them but peoples who ancestors were slaves it might be a little hard for them though i dont speak for their feelings. Regardless usually these statues show confederates as "good people"
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@drlebronski
An inanimate heap of bronze doesn't say either good or bad.
Good or bad, is a living thing.
And the slavery thing, is relative to the history of human social evolution.
As are statues I suppose.
Though, blaming me because of my skin tone or a statue, for something that occurred four or five hundred years ago is somewhat taking the piss....Pardon the expression.
For some, it still all really still boils down to the colour thing. Discrimination based upon a perceivable difference.
And some darker skinned people are just as intolerant as some lighter skinned people are.
Fortunately most people are forward thinking.
I say, get rid of all statues....Nothing for people to worry about then.
Though some people will always be keen to find something to worry about.
I have better things to do, like work at my job.
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@drlebronski
If I was black, And lived in a city where the majority of the population was black, I would likely want it removed. But if I was white, Had ancestors who were confederates, If I had an appreciation of my forebears and how many of them fought for state rights, For blood, Kin, Land, Country. Then I'd want them up. I do support local communities doing what they want, In either direction, Though I may not agree with what they choose.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I have better things to do, like work at my job.
You read my mind. Only people that want to be offended get offended by looking at a statue
I think they should be removed because they fought to destroy the United States.
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@ILikePie5
I don't really care to defend them either. Just really not an overall priority to me.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I don't really care to defend them either. Just really not an overall priority to me.
Exactly, who gives a shit. You don’t see a Confederate statue and start crying
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@Polytheist-Witch
I think they should be removed because they fought to destroy the United States.
They technically fought for their way of life. Even though it was shitty, it was only thing they knew at the time.
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@ILikePie5
Exactly
Some people just love being offended.
7 days later
History belongs to everyone, if it offends you, to fucking bad, go cry to your mommy, it is not yours to erase so you can feel better about yourself. Those who would erase history are the ones who doom us all to repeat it.
Good, now they can remove all the statues of Hitler they have in Germany. Oh wait, they don't have any.
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@FLRW
Going with the Lee is Hitler, argument, are we?
Are the Germans even given the legal 'right to erect a Hitler statue, if they wanted?
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@Lemming
I think I will go with Russell Simmons on this. Russell Simmons has got a pretty clear explanation on the relevance, or lack thereof, of a statue of Robert E. Lee in a 21st century America. According to the mogul and philanthropist, honoring Lee is no different from honoring the likes of Adolf Hitler.
“Hitler lost, right? We don’t have a memorial for Hitler,” Simmons told TMZ. “We don’t have a whole celebration of his effort. His effort was wrong. His intention was bad; hurtful. So, we don’t put up statues of him or, in fact, any opponents.”
“The South says, ‘Well, what are we going to have to represent the South?’ use the American flag, right? That’s all you need.”
“The South says, ‘Well, what are we going to have to represent the South?’ use the American flag, right? That’s all you need.”
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@FLRW
The 'lack of Confederates, is because frankly, they were right.
And when they lost, their culture was degraded, their 'Nations/States, religions, bastardized over time.
Their people's sense of identity.
I'm certainly glad legal slavery in America is no more.
But the current 'state of existence, to 'me, shows the Southerners saw the future clearly.
Should 'We take down the Confederate statues,?
No not I.
Should individual communities, Yes and no, I'd say.
If the descendants of the Confederates who fought and died for the liberty of their land and 'some of their people, Are dead and no longer value filial piety, Then I wouldn't be surprised by statues being removed to museums. Also if said descendants are now a minority, their culture diminished, their sense of identity assimilated into 'Greater 'America, I wouldn't be surprised by statues being removed to museums.
If the descendants of the Confederates who fought and died for the liberty of their land and 'some of their people, Are yet living and value filial piety, Then I would be surprised by statues being removed to museums. Also if said descendants still a majority, I would be surprised by statues being removed to museums. Subjective question really, I think. Depending on 'who you ask, 'where it is asked, Providence of said statues. The values held by who you ask.
. . .
Frankly, it makes me sick with rage, eh, irritation,
That people so willingly abandon their own fathers.
Though admittedly they are not 'everyone's heritage.
I understand the people with no positive connection in culture or blood, being so willing.
Ought the Brits snivel and whine apologies for their Empire that 'once 'was.
Oh the poor Aztecs, might modern day Spain say?
Oh - Grr, stop the sarcasm Leaning. . .
The Aztecs were an Empire themselves.
. . .
The point is I appreciate people, who appreciate family, history.
We are not Germans, and General Lee's actions are not synonymous with Hitler's.
If you start a formal debate on the subject, equivating the two, I 'might be convinced, but more likely not.
Even if 'Germans chose to build a statue of Hitler, I would not be offended, though I would not build one myself, and may think it a bit odd.
This does not mean I would want slavery in the modern era, or that we conquer and slaughter other peoples.
I am one to acknowledge my mistakes at times, 'not to regret them.
To act differently in the future, 'not to regret them.
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@Lemming
So I assume you are a Neo-Confederate?
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@fauxlaw
To erase history with the intent to prevent its recurrence is the height of stupidity. Who would remember to avoid things we wish did not happen if it is erased from history?
Well stated.
The irony of toppling these statues manifests in cognitive dissonance. Aficionados of the Confederate legacy are predominantly located in the Bible-belt. There should be no issue with toppling these graven images, since the Bible teaches not to worship false idols. Interesting enough, there's also a statue of Vulcan in the Bible-belt. The commission of this statue's erection makes one wonder.
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@drlebronski
Remove them and put some in museums as an artifact of a sad history of barbaric human behaviour
64 days later
Like the saying goes, well something like this, well probably not at all like this >>> History is not YOURS to like or dislike. History is not YOURS to alter, rewrite or erase. History belongs to everyone. If history offends you, then good, you should remember it and learn from it so you don't do the same fucking things again and repeat it. History shows that erasing a countries own history and culture destroys that country and it becomes no more. So repeat history you culture and history erasing fools.