Nepotism

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#1
Unpopular
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What do you think of nepotism and should it be prohibited in business or government? The college admissions scandal got me thinking. There's a lot of people out there on their high horse about how wrong it was for two rich celebrities, and other rich parents, to pay money to get their kids into good colleges. But how is that any different than Trump's children becoming executives at his company right off the bat, or even being appointed to government positions? 

Some people with family connections have experience and insight that makes them qualified for the job, but the Trumps are one famous example, though obviously they are everywhere, where someone gets where they are solely for family connections and money. Would the Obamas daughter have gotten into those ivy league schools if not for her famous father?

Of course, there is a difference between nepotism and fraud, which is what the college admissions scandal was where they fabricated qualifications and went to lengths to lie and cheat. But it doesn't feel as bad as Jared Kushner being in his thirties with no political experience negotiating foreign affairs in the Middle East and Asia. Should legal lines be drawn in the sand, and if so, where? I don't think there is much you can do with private companies, especially ones not publicly traded, but should we be shaming this more? Do you think the college admissions scandal was that bad? I don't, though I am glad rich people got held accountable to the law for a change. 
#2
Lemming
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@Unpopular
I think if someone 'owns a company, if it's a 'family business, then nepotism is understandable. Bit like inheriting a country.
Though some people say many of the better Roman Emperors were those given their position by the merit of ability, and not by blood relations.

I can even understand someone getting a recommendation at a company, because of a relation.
Though people would mind it less, if they worked their way up from the bottom, or were 'refused if unqualified.

It doesn't paint a very positive 'picture though.
And people with an interest in running a good company or country, would do better to look at how often blanket nepotism 'hurts their 'own cause.

. . .

I wasn't 'much bothered by the college admissions scandal. Good some attempt done to hold people to a standard. Bad that the system may not be fixed, only superficially solved.
Too bad in a way, to blame people for operating in a way that world seemed to work, too bad such a system is or can be.
Rambling.

. . .

#3
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Unpopular
Morally speaking I would say that

Trump's children becoming executives at his company right off the bat, or even being appointed to government positions?
is actually a lot worse than

two rich celebrities, and other rich parents, to pay money to get their kids into good colleges.
#4
RationalMadman
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I am kind of on the fence with this, despite being extremely meritocratic in general.

I see the issue with stopping nepotism hardline in some ways since it's an innate thing. If humans didn't want nepotism at all, like not even one bit, they'd support the state literally taking infants from their parents and raising them from birth to indoctrinate them to a pro-state agenda. Clearly, this isn't supported, people instinctively in our raw DNA as well as sociologically formed ethics have concluded it's better to have random variation in upbringing lead to unfair advantages of different kinds as well as disadvantages.

This then naturally extends to the idea that just like having the right friend can bag you an interview and lead to the interviewer preferring you as a candidate, having the right sister or cousin (etc) can as well. Furthermore, despite being very socially awkward myself, I've come to understand that people getting along in a workplace matters far more than competence if we talk long-term stability and joy of the human beings who work doing their work happily and enthusiastically so I understand how and why it's actually even objectively superior at times to have a less disliked, less competent worker as an employee than a thorn in the side of the workforce socially and emotionally who happens to be extremely competent and this may well mean that when it comes down to the final 2 candidates, one's good relations with a candidate play into their reasoning behind hiring them.

Nepotism isn't all that evil especially at the small-business and/or low-ranking level. It becomes more of an issue up-top.
#5
Athias
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@Unpopular
What do you think of nepotism and should it be prohibited in business or government?
No.

The college admissions scandal got me thinking. There's a lot of people out there on their high horse about how wrong it was for two rich celebrities, and other rich parents, to pay money to get their kids into good colleges.
If there is an issue with parents paying for the child's admission, then let that reflect on the reputation of the institution.

But how is that any different than Trump's children becoming executives at his company right off the bat, or even being appointed to government positions? 
Are you knowledgeable of their credentials?

Some people with family connections have experience and insight that makes them qualified for the job
Yes, so there's no issue right?

but the Trumps are one famous example, though obviously they are everywhere, where someone gets where they are solely for family connections and money.
Please elaborate on the reason that they acquired their positions "solely" on family connections and money.

Would the Obamas daughter have gotten into those ivy league schools if not for her famous father?
Would she have not? That's your issue; not hers.

Of course, there is a difference between nepotism and fraud, which is what the college admissions scandal was where they fabricated qualifications and went to lengths to lie and cheat.
They didn't lie and cheat; this was protocol. However, when said protocol became public, they had to renege and feign outrage to protect the reputation of their institutions.

But it doesn't feel as bad as Jared Kushner being in his thirties with no political experience negotiating foreign affairs in the Middle East and Asia.
Jared Kushner was "installed" to watch Trump. His daughter was also given to Kushner as collateral/prize. In other words, Trump's "sponsors" would be responsible for the "nepotism" not Trump himself.

Should legal lines be drawn in the sand, and if so, where?
No.

I don't think there is much you can do with private companies
Agreed. And there shouldn't be anything done.

especially ones not publicly traded
That does not matter.

but should we be shaming this more?
"Shame"? Why would one "shame" hiring family members and relatives?

Do you think the college admissions scandal was that bad?
It wasn't bad at all. Just revealing.

I don't, though I am glad rich people got held accountable to the law for a change. 
As opposed to other times when they weren't?


#6
Athias
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@RationalMadman
 If humans didn't want nepotism at all, like not even one bit, they'd support the state literally taking infants from their parents and raising them from birth to indoctrinate them to a pro-state agenda.
This already happens: it's called public education.

Clearly, this isn't supported, people instinctively in our raw DNA as well as sociologically formed ethics have concluded it's better to have random variation in upbringing lead to unfair advantages of different kinds as well as disadvantages.
You mean outside the U.S.? I'm certain that all industrialized nations have public indoctrination systems.

Nepotism isn't all that evil especially at the small-business and/or low-ranking level. It becomes more of an issue up-top.
Why?
#7
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@Athias
Public education is extremely insufficient especially if the intent is to enable those that go through it to genuinely be on equal footing to those that went through private education but even within public education, those that struggle with the regimented way it's taught and examined come to perish in it (as well as those with rougher households).
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@RationalMadman
Public education is extremely insufficient especially if the intent is to enable those that go through it to genuinely be on equal footing to those that went through private education but even within public education, those that struggle with the regimented way it's taught and examined come to perish in it (as well as those with rougher households).
Public Education is insufficient because it essentially serves as a detention mechanism for children whose parents are uninvolved in their education. Leaving them subjected to the disinformation propagated by public schools. And speaking from personal experience, my family was very much involved in my education—from my parents to my grandparents to siblings, even to my cousins. And I’d pay it forward with my younger siblings and my younger cousins. And this has led me to conclude that Public education teaches classroom discipline, it does not necessarily educate. And that is intentional. Because the product of a public school curriculum isn’t supposed to be a critical thinker who recalls and process the knowledge of his experiences appropriately; the product is supposed to be a future debt-slave. 


#9
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There are all kinds of credit. You could get credit from graduating from Harvard or returning every check on time. To the people who are blind sheep, being related to famous people IS credit.

If I am the son of Elon Musk, I would be probably flooded with question regarding technology, because by being the son of Elon Musk people would think I am well taught about innovative technological ideas and would understand those concepts well.

Those with professionality would immediately know if I actually know about innovating technology or not, but to untrained eye, if I really am the son of Elon Musk, people would think I know a lot even if I don't.

The same thing with Infamous people. If  I am the descendant of Stalin walking on the streets of Warsaw, I would expect eggs thrown at me.
#10
MarkWebberFan
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Sons of prime ministers often end up as prime ministers. There's also hiring applicants along religious/racial lines. There's not much change you can do especially if you're poor.  My rich friends get away with most things (i.e. getting temporarily kicked out of campus for failing only to return a year later) precisely because they're rich. If Nepotism is localized along values of compassion and empathy, I'm probably fine with it. I think it's rare to have compassionate nepotism. However, I have no control over it so I couldn't care less how prevalent Nepotism is in my world. I'll just say to myself "not my business" and move on. My opinion.