The meaning of death

Author: Tradesecret

Posts

Total: 233
Topic's author
#1
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
Some seem confused about the meaning of death preferring it to mean other than the ordinary meanings associated with the term. 

Physical death- when the body no longer has breath and decays. 

Spiritual death - when the spiritual relationship between God and man is severed. 

Covenantal death - when the breach of the covenant brings the sanction of covenantal death within the limitations of the specific institution. 

Some try and introduce another kind of death associated with ritual with higher orders with a secret society. 

Please explain the different types of death you understand and the basis of this understanding. 
#2
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Tradesecret
Hmmm.

Is this about a word and it's possible applications.

Or just a roundabout way of making a point, relative to a specific creation hypothesis.


Nonetheless.

Dead is the antonym to living or alive.

Whereas death can variously, precede an event, be subsequent to an event, be an event or be the embodiment of an event.

 

#3
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret
Some try and introduce another kind of death associated with ritual with higher orders with a secret society. 

Who are the "some" and which "secrets society" are you referring to?
#4
janesix
janesix's avatar
Debates: 12
Posts: 2,049
3
3
3
janesix's avatar
janesix
3
3
3
-->
@Tradesecret
Some seem confused about the meaning of death preferring it to mean other than the ordinary meanings associated with the term. 

Physical death- when the body no longer has breath and decays. 

Spiritual death - when the spiritual relationship between God and man is severed. 

Covenantal death - when the breach of the covenant brings the sanction of covenantal death within the limitations of the specific institution. 

Some try and introduce another kind of death associated with ritual with higher orders with a secret society. 

Please explain the different types of death you understand and the basis of this understanding. 

There is physical death, when your life force leaves your body. This is a part of life and guaranteed.

Spiritual death is not a severence of a connection with God, because there can be no severance. But it can be hidden or just not understood.

And there is ego death, which is the realization you are a part of the larger life force. This can come and go. Most people will not experience this in any give generation. The ego is necessary to keep the illusion of separation while on this lower earth. The whole reason for this plane is to experience duality.

#5
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
There's no such thing as death the spirit doesn't die it goes on forever. We just leave our bodies should be called something else like transitioning or pissing off or something.
Topic's author
#6
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
Typical avoiding of the question by asking further questions. Given your views about others doing this to you, your hypocrisy is once again in full view for the membership. 
Topic's author
#7
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
I think immortality if it exists must be conditional. 

Topic's author
#8
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@zedvictor4
Nothing to do with creation per se. But if you can provide a link, go for it. 
#9
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret
Typical avoiding of the question by asking further questions.

Yes it is a habit I learned from you in particular, Chaplain.

So I take it You are not about to explain or expend on your comments. No surprises there then.
#10
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Tradesecret
Did you only see one word in my previous post?


Avoiding the answer, as it were.
#11
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Supposition Poly.
Topic's author
#12
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
The topic is about different types of death. If you have nothing to add please leave the thread. If you do please begin by answering the question. 

You may begin. 
#13
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@zedvictor4
If you don't believe in this crap why do you post here.

#14
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 459
2
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
2
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
I agree with you. I think he is avoiding the topic. 
#15
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Well......You said it was crap.

And I take part because it is interesting to do so.

If you care to look at post#2, you will see that I gave a full answer to the question.


Was your post#5 serious or not. If so, can you substantiate the claim made therein....

"The spirit doesn't die it goes on forever".

I think that it is fair to refer to such statements as supposition.


#16
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,606
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Tradesecret
See the following letter to Albert Einstein (my third cousin) and his reply.

Dear Dr. Einstein,
Last summer my eleven-year-old son died of polio. He was an unusual child, a lad of great promise who verily thirsted after knowledge so that he could prepare himself for a useful life in the community. His death has shattered the very structure of my existence, my very life has become an almost meaningless void — for all my dreams and aspirations were somehow associated with his future and his strivings. I have tried during the past months to find comfort for my anguished spirit, a measure of solace to help me bear the agony of losing one dearer than life itself — an innocent, dutiful, and gifted child who was the victim of such a cruel fate. I have sought comfort in the belief that man has a spirit which attains immortality — that somehow, somewhere my son lives on in a higher world.
With heart-rending and utterly disarming despair, the grieving father goes on to wonder whether some evidence of immortality may be found in the principle of energy conservation in science, then adds:
I write you all this because I have just read your volume The World as I See It. On page 5 of that book you stated: “Any individual who should survive his physical death is beyond my comprehension … such notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls.” And I inquire in a spirit of desperation, is there in your view no comfort, no consolation for what has happened? Am I to believe that my beautiful darling child … has been forever wedded into dust, that there was nothing within him which has defied the grave and transcended the power of death? Is there nothing to assuage the pain of an unquenchable longing, an intense craving, an unceasing love for my darling son?
May I have a word from you? I need help badly.
Sincerely yours,
Dear Mr. M.,
A human being is part of the whole world, called by us “Universe,” a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest — a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. The striving to free oneself from this delusion is the one issue of true religion. Not to nourish the delusion but to try to overcome it is the way to reach the attainable measure of peace of mind.
With my best wishes,
sincerely yours,
Albert Einstein

Topic's author
#17
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@zedvictor4
s this about a word and it's possible applications.

Or just a roundabout way of making a point, relative to a specific creation hypothesis.


Nonetheless.

Dead is the antonym to living or alive.

Whereas death can variously, precede an event, be subsequent to an event, be an event or be the embodiment of an event.

Not just a word nor application.  What is death? Is it entirely captured in one definition or can it have other valid definitions. 

Not directed specifically to creation. Possibly more to Jesus. 

Antonyms are helpful but we still need a concrete definition. Living or life can be metaphorical as well. 

Your last paragraph made no sense to me. Please unpack it for me. Thanks. 
Topic's author
#18
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@FLRW
Thanks for your thoughts. I assume you agree with your cousin. 

Einstein of course was unable to scientifically test his theory. His theory was based on his theology or lack thereof. Hence it is as valid or invalid as anyone else’s. Except perhaps the person who has come back from the dead. 

Or perhaps the person who has metaphorically been resurrected from an effectively dead life. 

And the interesting thing about metaphorical things is that they make no sense unless they have a link to the real world. 

Also the Christian’s understanding of death is tied to God not to everlasting life. This is why they talk of living even though they die. For them if eternity is not linked to God it is A pointless pursuit. 

For example if I were to get to heaven and discover there is no god or no Jesus then I would be eternally unsatisfied and wishing I had been never born. 
#19
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
The word death is non-specific.

It can describe the whole process, of decline to non-existence.

So, alive or dead.

And though I struggle to find a specific word, the moment of cross over, might be referred to as passing. 



I do not read too much into things, whereas some people seem to find it necessary to do so.



Not directed specifically to creation. Possibly more to Jesus.
How about unpacking this statement.
#20
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret
The topic is about different types of death. If you have nothing to add please leave the thread. If you do please begin by answering the question. 

You may begin. 

 I would , but you have spoken of " Some try and introduce another kind of death associated with ritual with higher orders with a secret society. "

If you could just expand on that a little we may get somewhere. Simply tell me which "secret society" you had in mind when you spoke of "some trying to introduce another kind of death associated with ritual with higher orders with a secret society. "?

It is interesting that you have  mentioned three kinds of death, yet are not revealing this "other kind ". 

IMO;  The so called raising of Lazarus was only from a ritualistic "death" as was the "raising" of the "dead" daughter of Jairus.  So I would call these "ritual" deaths and raisings, simple spiritual "deaths",  which I have covered already in many of my threads.

So are you now going to expand or are you going to cave under the slightest scrutiny of your own comments.  AGAIN!!!





Topic's author
#21
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
I don’t see what your problem is stephen. I said some people are confused about death. I raised three ordinary ways death is used. I said some raise a fourth type. I am not confused. 

I asked a question and I raised a fourth view. I asked people for their own views. It seems you have your own view. Good for you. Thanks for your contribution. 

I can’t say your view was particularly insightful. Nevertheless I was not looking for insight I was looking for different views. 

When did you first learn about the secret gospel of mark? And why do you hold it as being valid despite the very strong criticism of it as a fraudulent book? 
#22
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret
So are you now going to expand or are you going to cave under the slightest scrutiny of your own comments and reveal to us the " another kind of death associated with ritual with higher orders with a secret society. "? ".  AGAIN!!!


I don’t see what your problem is stephen. 


So that is another cowardly,  NO!, then.  No one will be surprised by this, Pastor.

Off you trot then.




8 days later

#23
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret

.

TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a man, to a woman, and now unknown, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, an admitted sexual deviant, and had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender, and goes against Jesus in not helping the poor:

As you so graciously proposed as shown in your link herewith: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6165/post-links/275117, and my logical in context follow up link herewith: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6165-was-jesus-homosexual?page=10&post_number=245  you so graciously proposed as shown that you would finally “gladly answer” the plethora of your runaway questions that I posed to you, praise Jesus!


Therefore, let us start on your finally coming to Jesus moment with question #1: Barring you worshiping a “goddess,” you admitted that you were a Despicable Sexual Deviant, along with like-minded friends, and where you obviously did ungodly sex acts that went against Jesus' words within the scriptures as shown in my post #21 below. BUT, at the same time, you perceived yourself as a Christian in the link below which is BLASPHEME!:

Your admittance of being a SEXUAL DEVIANT is sickeningly shown in paragraph 12 and 14 down from your statement in this link:


Subsequent to your admittance of being a SEXUAL DEVIANT, you never answered me in how you can still call yourself a Christian, but you rather run away from this question as shown in the following links:


The membership is watching, therefore, how can you call yourself a Christian, which is the question at hand, when you are an admitted DESPICABLE SEXUAL DEVIANT as explicitly shown in this post?

You may BEGIN: 

.





Topic's author
#24
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
One question at a time brother (always running away) Thomas. And on religion not personal attacks. And on a new thread that you start.  Stop running away. 
#25
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret


.
TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a man, to a woman, and now unknown, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, an admitted sexual deviant, and had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender, and goes against Jesus in not helping the poor:

Whoops, I guess you need to make an appointment with Lenscrafters to get new glasses, because you seem to have not seen my post to you above in your DEAD THREAD within as shown herewith:  https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6316/post-links/275216

TRADESECRET, at least "feebly try" to address said post, okay? Seriously, the membership are watching you continue to run away from your unchristian like conduct within this esteemed forum, where that does not bode well for you, and especially for Jesus as He watches you RUN! (Hebrews 4:13)

BEGIN:
#26
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret


TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a man, to a woman, and now unknown, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, an admitted sexual deviant, and had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender, and goes against Jesus in not helping the poor:

UPDATE #4!

As shown below you made the faux pas of saying that I was a complete runaway to pseudo-christians posts to me, and the master of doing so. This misnomer by you was initiated on July 1, at 7:05 pm, as shown below.

Added
07.01.21 07:05PM
-->
@BrotherDThomas
The number of times you have run away brother makes everyone else pale into insignificance. You are the master of running. You are our model and champion. 


I have asked you in the following subsequent links below to show where I have allegedly performed this runaway act,

Now, the date is July 13, 2021, 12 DAYS LATER, and you have yet to show evidence of me running away from Bible inept pseudo-christians like you! Tell us, do you enjoy having proverbial egg upon your face all the time, and now you are known for LYING because you cannot produce the evidence shown above, which goes against what Jesus hates the most: "There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers." (Proverbs 6:16-19)

How embarrassed can you get here on DEBATEART Religion forum?!


.

Topic's author
#27
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Hi brother (always running away) Thomas. 

You may wish to play a game rather than join the discussion but please don’t hijack this thread with your questions. Please start your own thread and stop running away. Those are the rules. If you want me to answer a question on religion start your your thread. 


#28
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7

.
TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a man, to a woman, and now unknown, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, an admitted sexual deviant, and had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender, and goes against Jesus in not helping the poor:


YOUR QUOTE IN RUNNING AWAY FROM MY QUESTIONS AGAIN: "You may wish to play a game rather than join the discussion but please don’t hijack this thread with your questions."

Dear, Sir, or unknown, whichever gender I am speaking to since you have 3 of them, I AM NOT HIJACKING YOUR THREAD, we've already discussed this notion whereas your memory goes lacking once again.  It is against the rules of DA to create a thread targeted towards another of which I have told you umpteenth times!  Therefore, you came up with the great idea in the following link  in how to ask you questions, remember? https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6165/post-links/275180

Following your concept within the link shown above, and since I cannot create a targeted thread relative to your outright Bible stupidity and runaway tactics,  then using your thread herein is the logical option. Understood, maybe?  Listen, your thread of "The meaning of Death" should have been entitled "How to create a DEAD Thread" instead!  Furthermore, I am now giving this dead thread of yours actual meaning by you addressing your runaway posts from Jesus and I have gathered at your embarrassing expense!  2+2=4.


YOUR QUOTE BACKFIRING ON YOU:  "Please start your own thread and stop running away."

Dear, Sir, unknown, I can't be running away when I am pursuing you to answer questions that you continue to run away from with me, get it Bible fool? Your deft understanding of the English Language in you not being hypocritical  needs a tune up, therefore, go to this link to help you: https://www.coursera.org/browse/language-learning/learning-english.  You can thank me later.


Now, here are the links within your "dead thread" that you are to address without RUNNING AWAY AGAIN, understood Bible fool runaway?

You may BEGIN:

Topic's author
#29
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
For your information, I am male. Secondly, I don’t deny Jesus is the second person of the Trinity.  I am reformed in denomination. I deny I have committed  the unforgivable sin. I do not think kids meaning youths under 18 should be put to death for cursing  their parents. I have not committed and deny any sexual deviancy. I have not had gender reassignment. I am not a satanic bible rewriter. Nor am I a liar embarrassed or otherwise. I think Christians ought to help the poor. 

Yes you are attempting to hijack this thread. This thread is discussing death and the various types of the same.  Your attempting to turn it into an opportunity to  argue other points or threads. 

I reject your assertion that you cannot start another thread with a question. True you may not start one with an express attempt to attack me. But if you were genuinely wanting to know the answer to a religious question then the question should be general enough for all to answer. The other thing you do is go and resurrect old threads which you believe I have not answered. Both are decisions for you. 

So when you are ready please start your own thread or if that is scary for you, resurrect an old thread. But I am getting bored with your inability to understand basic curtesy. 
#30
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret
@BrotherDThomas
Tradesecrete wrote: But I am getting bored with your inability to understand basic curtesy.

Do you mean this kind of intolerant and abusive curtesy, Reverend

Tradesecrete wrote: Stupid man. Dumb as fuck. Are you really this thick?Just continue to repeat your ignorance. #161
 Obviously you are an idiot.  #186

Interesting that you have created a thread dedicated to the gospel of  Matthew 7 isn't it, Reverend?#1 Tradesecret

Did you actaully read Matthew 7 for yourself? 

 Here you go, Reverend. Matthew 7:3-5

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite!, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Get well soon Reverend.