So show us then. don't just assert it, prove it.
as the Brother would suggest "You may start now".
So show us then. don't just assert it, prove it.- I meant in practice, not in beliefs. LDS have some of the weirdest beliefs among Christian denominations. They follow Bible teachings in chastity, modesty, polygamy, family, gambling, intoxication...etc.
as the Brother would suggest "You may start now".- Which of you is the sock puppet?
what is that meant to mean to me? Muslims have weird practices as well.
Polygamy.
violence.
pedophilia.
domestic control and dominance.
patriarchal practices.
Arranged marriages.
bribery and corruption.
none of these are biblical. biblical beliefs are dangerous. As are Christian beliefs. both need to be mocked and ridiculed. I have suggested in other places what I think ought to be done with the bible. Yet, it needs to be done in an ethical and honest manner. Anyone can produce a strawman and kill it off. Yet this is a dishonest manner of attacking something. when the verdict is in - - then we can get to the judgment.
LDS are actually closer to the teachings of the Bible than most Christian denominations out there.
what is that meant to mean to me? Muslims have weird practices as well.- No where near the extreme practices in the West; the most extreme in human history.
Polygamy.- The West is the global leader in polygamous relationships & unlawful polygamy, aka adultery. In France, more than half married men & women commit adultery.
violence.- The West has lead the global output of violence every year for the past 1000 years. According to the Encyclopedia of War, the death toll is something around 550 million.
pedophilia.- The West has been leading in that too, since ancient Greece.
domestic control and dominance.- Some of the highest rates in the world of domestic abuse & incest are in the West, after all they invented it.
patriarchal practices.- Lmao! Can you be more cliche!
Arranged marriages.- The entire world prefers arranged marriages, except the West. They rather spend half their lives whoring themselves before marriage. Sad!
bribery and corruption.- The West bribes & corrupts the entire world to maintain their control. 50 billion USD of American tax payer money went to bribe Iraq alone.
none of these are biblical. biblical beliefs are dangerous. As are Christian beliefs. both need to be mocked and ridiculed. I have suggested in other places what I think ought to be done with the bible. Yet, it needs to be done in an ethical and honest manner. Anyone can produce a strawman and kill it off. Yet this is a dishonest manner of attacking something. when the verdict is in - - then we can get to the judgment.- This is hilariously delusional! You seem to be boasting a lot of confidence, maybe you can debate me on Islam.
You should give some examples. Not just make wild claims.
You speak with a forked tongue. Polygamy is illegal in the West. If it unlawful - then it is illegal.
The only practicing polygamists I know are Muslims who try and get around the law by having one real marriage and other de-facto - Muslim weddings.
Hence, all polygamists are adulterers.
In any event, the same occurs in every culture. People commit adultery.
Yes, so you say. But the West do not behead people.
You seem to have missed China's mass cultural genocides. You seem to have missed Russia's mass murders. You seem to have missed Cambodia and places in the East.
Islam is a religion of violence.
Cutting of a hand for theft is violence.
Beating your wife for disobedience or not submitting is violence.
Again, I never said the West did not have problems, but Islam has always had problems in this area.
Your founder is one of history's most scary people who committed this evilness.
By pointing the finger - you have three pointing back at yourself. The West did not invent these things. They were around a long time before the West came into existence.
The father is the head of the house. Do you deny it? The eldest brother rules. Do you deny it?
Forcing people to marry other people - a breach of fundamental human rights. Not permitting a freedom of choice in such an important decision.
Incest - pedaphilia. Who prefers these things? Not the West.
This is why we have laws against such things and why the community is so outraged against the Catholic church for its public role in such things.
The West is based on contracts and a legal system which for the most part is transparent.
Muslim nations, like Indonesia and in the East conduct hearings based on a handshake, on bribe systems, on family self interest.
Americans will use bribes in Iraq because Iraq does not recognize anything else. Yet if the Iraq went to America it would have to sign a contract.
It would be difficult to conduct a debate with you because you are dishonest. And deny simple truths - replacing them with your own narrative.
- I would have to write an encyclopedia, but this is a simple exercise. Take the practices of the Western society today & compare it to human society across history. Then realize there has never been a more extreme society in human history.
- Umm... You're contradicting yourself! Lawful polygamy is illegal & its opposite, unlawful polygamy, is illegal too...!! Solid logic!
- Yet, more contradictions! Muslims are the only polygamists by doing the same thing supposed non-polygamists do, having one legal relationship plus other extra-legal?! The law of non-contradiction is having a seizure.
- Even more contradictions! A polygamist in a legal marriage & in another relationship is committing extramarital intercourse (adultery), yet a polygamist in a legal marriage & an extra-legal one is also committing marital-extramarital intercourse!? Are you waging war on the law of non-contradiction...
- "they do it too", right? Nah, wishful thinking. Adultery is particularly prevalent in western countries, they top the list like champions. Regardless, lawful (& unlawful) polygamous relationships are -respectively- consensual (& non-consensual) multi-partner relationships; the latter being predominant in western societies. One main difference between Islamic (lawful) polygamous relationships & western (unlawful) ones is that in the Islamic relationship all partners share equal rights & dues -& by extensions all the children, whereas in the West the relationship is non-consensual & one wife gets all the rights (& her children) when the other partners get no legal rights.
- They just bomb them, burn them, dismember them, massacre them, shoot them, gas them, torture them, eat them... It's always shocking how westerners, especially Americans, are so detached from the world & their own history.
- First of all, this is a drop in a bucket in Western killings, in both scale & scope. Second of all, these deaths are natively instigated, the Chinese will quickly forget what Chinese have done to themselves, but they will never forget what others have done to them. This isn't the case for Western killings, others will not forget what the West has done to them. Third of all, it was not until these countries (particularly Japan) adopted Western ideologies (like Nationalist & Communism) that they displayed the grandest show of violence in their history.
- That's the typical attitude. Reminds me of when the French went into North Africa, they massacred a 1/3rd of the population, burning entire villages with their people, while calling their victims violent. You're projecting. Today, one of the most violent countries in the world is the US, they can't help projecting that blame onto others to feel better about themselves.
- Killing off someone for murder is violence. Your logic is top notch. Execution or severing the hand for capital crime is a punishment, which is, by definition, cruel.
- You gotta get on top of that, it's getting out of control in the West.
- You have wild imaginations. Many states in the US have no minimum age of marriage -there are +300k child marriages in country. In fact, less than a century ago, the age of consent in the US was 10 years, down to 7 years (such as in Delaware).
- The founder of Islam Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) was the greatest human being who brought justice & mercy to the world, to establish peace, honor women, end racism, spread freedom of religion & equity among all; & his wife Aisha is the most influential woman in Islam. You're conflating the great Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) with your bloody founders.
- It's just that you don't know your history. Consensual marriage in the West comes from Islam, through Andalusia -thanks to Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). Pre-12th century, the Church did not establish consensual marriage, & that still persisted in the West until late 19th century. Divorce was also forbidden, subjecting women to essentially life-imprisonment. This didn't change until mid-20th century, after so much pressure from within to be like Muslims. Again, thanks to Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). Though, to be fair, the West is not the only culpable in this case, India as well. Women didn't have property rights in the West until the 20th century. In fact, in France it was until 1939. Muslim women had full property rights since day one, of course thanks to Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). I can go on & on & on...
The father is the head of the house. Do you deny it? The eldest brother rules. Do you deny it?- No, God is the head of the family & of society in general. The man performs his role in society fulfilling his duties as a father, a husband, a son, a neighbor, an employee, a tenant, a friend...etc. Every connection a person has with another entails a role, with rights & dues.
- Damn! You don't know anything do you!? Arranged marriage = forced marriage. Though, forced marriages are prevalent in the US as well, most states do not prohibit it.
- Lmao! I guess you don't know. That's the general reputation the West has elsewhere. We can see the news; sex-tourism is dominated by westerners... You know the age of consent in Mexico is 12 years old... You can do the math.
- That's not true. Incest, zoophilia... are legal in much of the West.
- That's propaganda. You keep forgetting I'm not American, this mantra means nothing to me. They keep telling you this day & night. It doesn't mean it's necessarily the case. Every state has PR.
- America is a rich country, handshake bribes are not worth the risk. Bribes are in the millions & in the billions. Tax evasion in the US is upwards of ONE TRILLION USD per year. In the US corruption is legalized. A lawyer can lie under the protection of the Law & sell himself to the highest bidder. A corporation can lobby -corrupt- the government for its own interests. A pharmacologist can charge a small fortune to a low-class citizen for his profit...
- You're hopelessly delusional. Can't you break a little bit the stereotype!? You have backwards, Western countries use aid & bribes & various other persuasive means -offers you can not refuse, to pressure countries to cede to their interests. They have been doing this since colonial days, it has never stopped. In fact, it was US official policy to ration African countries for population control, unless they cede to American demands, because these countries do not have other options. But the world is different today, there are options. China is rising as a super power. The balance is shifting.
- Did I shock you that much? You can't handle the truth?... In effect, if you're confident you have the truth, then you can just disprove my lies & establish your truths. Shouldn't be hard right?
Which is wrong?Multiple spouses.or multiple sex partners.One is concept based.One is reality based.Right and wrong are also concept based.
So I guess that's a no then. You have none - not even one example and just make wild claims. I was actually hoping you might have substance to your nonsense.
Sorry - not solid logic. the word lawful means legal. Polygamy is wrong in my opinion.
That does not even make sense. You seem to misunderstand the law of non-contradiction.
However if you think that is what I have said - please express it so.
yassine - to have more than one wife is to commit adultery or unfaithfulness against the first wife.
Adultery is prevalent everywhere. You should speak to the Muslim families I know - where children dislike their father who has two separate families. One of my closest friends left Indonesia to come to PNG - because her father favored her half siblings from his second wife.
Unlike you, I accept that the Muslim world has done bad things - but I also acknowledge the West has too.
You seem to think that the West deny their evils. You obviously don't know too many Westerners. Or if you do - you just reject their views.
I am not American.
No it is not a drop in the bucket. There were more people killed in the 20th century than in the rest of human history.
You need to read some more history - try reading something at all - would be nice.
Islam is a religion of violence.
It advocates full submission or beheading by its fundamentalists. Fundamentalists who make up the majority of Islamists.
The minority which are nominal do not understand Islam
- like the majority of Christians who are also nominal do not understand their religion.
I think the better recourse would be to use what I call victim's rights.
do you mean wives not submitting or being disobedient?
Where is America? America does have a minimum age for marriage.
And if someone wishes to get married prior to that age - they need the consent of the court. If you have different information post the links.
If you don't post links - then you have nothing.
Muhammed was a pedophile. He ought to be canceled.
I do know my history.
Are you saying consensual marriage is good or arranged marriages are good? It appears you have contradicted yourself again.
I think you are confusing Arab history with Arab history.
There is no god. So you agree - the father is the one who has to fulfill the role of boss over everyone else. Talk about a copout.
If there are forced marriages in US - then they are illegal.
You should report any if you know of any. Otherwise you are just getting emotional because the truth is the truth.
A general reputation by people who are envious of the West is not necessarily the most reliable measure of the truth.
I think a better method is - by watching how many people vote with their feet. More people come to the West every year from the rest of the world than go to the rest of the world from the West. Why? Because despite its obvious shortfalls - it is preferable than staying in the rest of the world.
They are not legal. Stop making things up. telling such transparent lies is embarrassing for you.
Is that what your Muslim leader teach you? TO lie - because it is good to speak good of Islam no matter how evil it is. yassine - the ends do not justify the means.
No not propaganda. I am not American either. I don't have to be told - I see it all of the time with my own eyes.
You really are indoctrinated aren't you? Think about what you are saying. Imagine if any of the arab nations could have tax evasion of so much money? They could not because their systems are so bad.
the one who is delusional is you. I already said Western nations use bribes in non-western nations where bribing is expected. Go to Ukraine. Go to Bangladesh. Go to Indonesia or Maylasia. Bribing is expected to get anything done.
If this was done in PNG or Australia you would get thrown in prison.
China is rising.
The only thing that shocks me is how gullible you are - you really believe the propaganda they teach you.
I am good with the truth. But I am not confident you are.
The OIC countries (Muslim majority countries) have already surpassed the US & the EU in GDP,
Polygamy is wrong in my opinion.
Not true, the Islamic World's nominal GDP currently stands at a grand total of $6.25 trillion dollars, spread over a population of 1.6 billion people. For comparison India, which has an approximately similar sized population to the Islamic world (1.3 billion), has an economy worth $2.45 trillion dollars.
Much of the Muslim world still lags behind countries such as Japan ($4.8 trillion dollars) and the United States ($18.6 trillion dollars)
however, who have much smaller populations (127 million; 323 million respectively) but are highly industrialised,
as well place a particular emphasis on science.
Additionally China's current economy is worth $11.8 trillion dollars (with a population of 1.41 billion.
Progress, however, is more rapid in some countries than others; for example Indonesia (population 261 million) became the first country in the Islamic world to surpass the trillion dollar mark in 2017
, with Turkey closely behind at almost achieving this target (which currently stands at $841.2 billion dollars).
Malaysia too is a laudable case, which is set to reach a nominal GDP of $500 billion dollars by 2022, with a population of only 34.2 million people.
Significantly, these more advanced Muslim economies are not solely oil-based economies (with the exception of Saudi Arabia; $678 billion dollars and with a population of 32.4 million), but have rapidly been expanding in economic complexity over the years.
Perhaps far more exciting is that the macroeconomic trends show the Islamic world will accrue a total nominal GDP wealth of $8.85 trillion dollars by 2022 (representing an average growth rate of 7% to 2022).
Perhaps fauxlaw might do so. He is a very knowledgible source and easy to talk to
Mormonism was when there were these tablets found in upstate NY I think and the Book of Mormon is 200 pages or so of text that was found on the tablets. My question that alienates me from Mormonism more than the rest of christianity is how can you fit 200 pages of text on a tablet? This leads me to believe that Mormonism couldn't have occurred, although I don't know too much about it as I don't live in Utah.
Eh, common in cultures or religions, to have customs.Whether behavior, clothing, so on.
413 days later
Why is the LDS considered a cult and not a proper Christian denomination?What are the primary points of similarity that put it in the Christian camp? And what are the points of doctrine which distinguish it from the traditional Christian position? And what are the unique and distinct perspectives of the Mormons that radically uplift it into weird territory?Please do not use this as a slanging board against the LDS. Use it as an opportunity to compare and contrast and analyze the Mormons and the veracity of its doctrines.
