Is Allah the same as Jehovah? Or are they two different gods?
Some suggest that even in the OT - there are two gods - jehovah and lucifer. Thor and Loki. Two brothers forever in competition.
Can this be extended to allah and jehovah?
Is the god of the Muslims the same as the Jewish god?
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@Timid8967
........And Lidl and Aldi.
Same fundamental basis...Varying ideology.
Different head gear but a similar focus on genital mutilation and pork.....Not Lidl and Aldi I hasten to add.
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@Timid8967
Yes, they are the same god of Abraham.
the two religions share a God concept but have different actual Gods in that each claims that the God did something that the other did not do, so they cannot be the same.
If I say "God did this" and you say "God did that, NOT this" and we share the idea that God is perfect and transmitted what he did to us, then there must be two Gods with identical characteristics who did different things.
Judaism and Christianity share a God character but not a God concept because the attributes are different but the character is ostensibly the same.
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@zedvictor4
So are they two brothers sharing common cultural family traits or are they the same?
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@Sum1hugme
How do you know?
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@rosends
the two religions share a God concept but have different actual Gods in that each claims that the God did something that the other did not do, so they cannot be the same.If I say "God did this" and you say "God did that, NOT this" and we share the idea that God is perfect and transmitted what he did to us, then there must be two Gods with identical characteristics who did different things.Judaism and Christianity share a God character but not a God concept because the attributes are different but the character is ostensibly the same.
I hear what you say. But is it not true that children often say that about their parents - mum said this - but mum said that. Both have a different understanding of what mother said - but are the same mother. Is this is not a plausible situation with god. The Jews say one thing and the muslims say another - but just have different recollection of what their god said and did. Or what their gods are like?
I remember my mum as being very talkative - my brother - remembers her being quiet. Is she the same mother or not?
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@Timid8967
If Judaism teaches that the binding was of Isaac and the accepted idea in Islam is that God asked for Ishmael to be sacrificed, and only one of those claims is true of a particular God, as evidenced by the divine text then (if each religion says that its divine tradition is perfect) the two actors must be exclusive of each other. The other understanding is that one religion is just completely wrong which undercuts the entire idea of God's giving over a truth.
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@BrotherDThomas
I call upon the almighty BrotherDThomas!!
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@Reece101
The thread was more than likely created to bait the Brother, in the first place.
The Muslims are truer to the God of Abraham then Christians.
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@Timid8967
Thor and Loki are not bothers. Please refer to actual Norse myth not Marvel for discussion in a religion forum.
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@Stephen
BrotherDThomas Is a true Christian. I have faith in him.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Thor and Loki are not bothers.
Yeah, what she said. The contrary is woke, however, so it must fit. And, I'm sure poundmeThomas will add this to my list of failures.
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@Timid8967
Is Allah the same as Jehovah? Or are they two different gods?
According to one group,(Christians), their god (Jesus) is three in one. According another group, (Muslims) this is blasphemy of sorts as it is a "unbelief" to Muslims; to believe such tripe or ' Shirk'. So it appears that these groups themselves are answering your question.
According to one group, " the group you refer to as the "weird group of Christians" Jesus IS god, while according to the other group you mention Jesus was nothing than a prophet. And who are you or I to argue what they choose to believe? Are you asking either of these groups to prove anything?
The Jews don't even believe Jesus was a Messiah or even a prophet much less or god and to believe he was I should imagine that would be a blasphemy of sorts to Jews as well as Muslims .
Muslims also believe Jesus didn't die on the cross and that there was no resurrection. Unlike Christians that believe their god incarnated as a human and died as a human and was resurrected by(himself)as god.
"the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" said Rabbi David Kimhi - " therefore, with reference to this god whom you call Father, Son and Holy Spirit, - that part which you call the Father must be prior to that which you call Son, for if they were always coexistent would have to be called twin brothers.
More over, if the Son is the Father what of Mary getting pregnant? Is this not an incestuous congregation? The Father has sex with the mother to conceive the Son who is also the Father.....so technically the Son, who is also the father, had sex with his mother"...
It's all very - Oedipus, isn't it ?
Do you not agree with what they believe about their own gods and religions, Dimtim8967?
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@Sum1hugme
Yes, Zeki Saritoprak, a professor of Islamic studies at John Carroll University in Cleveland, points out that in the Quran there's the Biblical story of Jacob asking his sons whom they'll worship after his death.
"Jacob's sons replied, 'We will worship the God of your fathers' — Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac. He is the God," Saritoprak says. "So this God that Jacob worshipped, this God that Abraham, Isaac worshipped, is the same God that Muslims worship today."
"Jacob's sons replied, 'We will worship the God of your fathers' — Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac. He is the God," Saritoprak says. "So this God that Jacob worshipped, this God that Abraham, Isaac worshipped, is the same God that Muslims worship today."
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@Timid8967
Ask Abraham. He's the father of the two sides. But recall whose is the birthright.
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@zedvictor4
........And Lidl and Aldi.
Or Avis and Hertz.
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@rosends
.
Rosends, ungodly rewriter of the Hebrew Bible and other Jewish writings, and runaway from Jewish biblical axioms, and calls His Yahweh God a LIAR,
YOUR DECEIVING AND LYING QUOTE: "the two religions share a God concept but have different actual Gods in that each claims that the God did something that the other did not do, so they cannot be the same."
As if your outright ungodly misinformation wasn't enough in the Flat Earth thread, now you insidiously propose that the Gods in question are not the same? WTF! Rosends, when does your Bible and religious history stupidity ever end?!!!
ENOUGH of your Satanic Devil Speak within this forum where I will prove that your brutal serial killer God Yahweh, Jesus, and Allah are the same god through the decent of Abraham, you Bible ignorant fool! Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are the Abrahamic Religions, and their particular Gods named below are the same god, period!
HEBREW YAHWEH God is through Abraham:
And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.” (Exodus 3:6)
CHRISTIAN JESUS God is through Abraham:
Jesus said: “I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” (Matthew 22:32)
MUSLIM ALLAH God is through Abraham:
Say you: 'We believe in God, and in that which has been sent down on us and sent down on Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob, and the Tribes, and that which was given to Moses and Jesus and the Prophets, of their Lord; we make no division between any of them, and to Him we surrender.’ (Quran, chapter 2, verse 136)
Rosends, isn’t it about time that you go to where you will be more comfortable with your complete Hebrew Bible ignorance? Here is an appropriate “Children’s Hebrew Forum” for you to reside in, okay? You can thank me later: https://www.jewishedproject.org
NEXT?
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@Reece101
Reece101,
YOUR REVEALING QUOTE TO ME TO BIBLE SLAP SILLY ROSENDS BIBLICAL IGNORANCE: "I call upon the almighty BrotherDThomas!! "
Thank you for the "heads up" upon certain Bible ignorant fools relative to the main topic at hand within this thread.
Because of the different divisions of pseudo-christians are making fools of themselves relative to the main topic, and the dumbfounded Hebrew Rosends as well, Jesus' words and I are kept quite busy within this forum alone as the following link below explicitly shows:
In the name of the hung Savior,
Brother D, Thomas
.
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@BrotherDThomas
Don't worry -- I'm here to fix your ignorance. I care...I truly and deeply care and want you to become better so that you can leave the house wearing your big boy pants and without being ashamed of who you are and everything you don't know.
You wrote:
" now you insidiously propose that the Gods in question are not the same?"
I'll type slowly and use small words because I want you to be able to follow along and you might not have access to an aide who can help you with the tough parts. There are two components -- the God idea and the God character. If there are two accounts of the behavior, but both accounts are attributed to a character which has a singular set of characteristics, then there must be two separate parallel characters -- no one singular character can do two mutually exclusive actions. Islam claims that God, as a particular character, did certain things and Judaism claims that God did others things which are exclusive of what Islam claims God did (I provided an example of this, but I guess you had to go back to your room before you got to read it in the common area). But theologically (that's a big word, I know, but I'll wait while you look it up) the ideas behind the nature of God are the same in the 2 religions. Therefore, they must be pointing to 2 distinct characters but one idea of that character, unless you say that one entire account and the religion that follows it is wrong.
If two constructs disagree on the nature and characteristics of the divine figure, but attribute all the same actions to that figure, then they don't share an idea but have an actual figure in common. This is pretty basic stuff. I'm sure your cardboard "I can read, level 2" books can help you understand.
Your next bit of froth was an attempt to prove that three characters are the same because three texts all use the same language to describe that figure. Had you been paying attention, you would understand how irrelevant that is. I can attribute a characteristic to three different characters, or even an action and that doesn't make them all identical if I ALSO attribute something to only one of them. You quoted an idea in common. My cat and my dog can both be said to have 4 legs, but that's not where descriptions end, only where they start. I'm trying to reference animals because I sense that that is the limit of your daily interactions.
Keep on being adorable and don't forget to take your meds!
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@Timid8967
Is Allah the same as Jehovah? Or are they two different gods?Some suggest that even in the OT - there are two gods - jehovah and lucifer. Thor and Loki. Two brothers forever in competition.Can this be extended to allah and jehovah?
Not brothers so much as two incarnations of the same God of Thunder.
WIKI: YHWH was the national god of Ancient Israel. His origins reach at least to the early Iron Age and likely to the Late Bronze Age. In the oldest biblical literature he is a storm-and-warrior deity who leads the heavenly army against Israel's enemies; at that time the Israelites worshipped him alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah and Baal, but in later centuries El and Yahweh became conflated and El-linked epithets such as El Shaddai came to be applied to Yahweh alone, and other gods and goddesses such as Baal and Asherah were absorbed into the Yahwistic religion.Towards the end of the Babylonian captivity (6th century BCE), the very existence of foreign gods was denied, and Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator of the cosmos and the one true God of all the world.
When Greek culture spread across the Mediterranean, Romans found that their God of Thunder, Jupiter was a reasonable facsimile for the Greek Zeus and Etruscan Tinia (and later even Ba'al and YHWH) and so sought to synthesize beliefs and practices and consolidate various religions into a single harmonious tradition. Similarly, YHWH was first an Israelite thunder god in a Pantheon of other Israelite gods who synthesized with the creation god El and other Canaanite traditions in Egypt to emerge as a henotheistic Hebrew god (That is, NOT "there are no other gods" but rather "thou shalt have no other gods before me." After Babylonian captivity, the Jews emerged as a monotheistic tradition that suppressed other traditions by disallowing the mere mention of the many names of God.
Allah is the Arabic word for El, the Canaanite creation god, and the Kaaba at the heart of Mecca was dedicated to that old Hebrew tradition (before other gods but not because there are no other gods) for a long time before synthesizing with the local Meccan pantheon around 600 CE, then turning to monotheistic reaction after Muhammad. When speaking Arabic or Aramaic, Christians, Jews, and Muslims all use the name Allah to invoke God. In Arabic, Muslims call the god of their prophets Moses and Jesus Allah and recognize a new synthesis between those traditions and the El of Meccan monotheism.
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@rosends
If Judaism teaches that the binding was of Isaac and the accepted idea in Islam is that God asked for Ishmael to be sacrificed, and only one of those claims is true of a particular God, as evidenced by the divine text then (if each religion says that its divine tradition is perfect) the two actors must be exclusive of each other. The other understanding is that one religion is just completely wrong which undercuts the entire idea of God's giving over a truth.
There is a third option. neither of the two religions are perfect and both have faulty recollections of what occurred. It does not need to be an either/ or. This does need to mean that both of these religions do not have some truth about what happened.
Yet if both gods are saying, their god made the world and everything happened down to Isaac and Ismael. Then surely - both gods are identical until then - when the deviation takes place.
After all, if Jews say "my god made the world". And Muslims say "my god made the world". And if both are correct - then surely there must a connection?
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@Polytheist-Witch
The Muslims are truer to the God of Abraham then Christians.
You may well be correct - but that is not the question at hand. If you want to pursue that line of thinking, then please start your own thread. Thanks.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Thor and Loki are not bothers. Please refer to actual Norse myth not Marvel for discussion in a religion forum.
That is probably a fair rebuke. I did get it from the Marvel - but I seem to recall it in other discussions. But thanks for that.
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@Stephen
Is Allah the same as Jehovah? Or are they two different gods?According to one group,(Christians), their god (Jesus) is three in one. According another group, (Muslims) this is blasphemy of sorts as it is a "unbelief" to Muslims; to believe such tripe or ' Shirk'. So it appears that these groups themselves are answering your question.According to one group, " the group you refer to as the "weird group of Christians" Jesus IS god, while according to the other group you mention Jesus was nothing than a prophet. And who are you or I to argue what they choose to believe? Are you asking either of these groups to prove anything?The Jews don't even believe Jesus was a Messiah or even a prophet much less or god and to believe he was I should imagine that would be a blasphemy of sorts to Jews as well as Muslims .Muslims also believe Jesus didn't die on the cross and that there was no resurrection. Unlike Christians that believe their god incarnated as a human and died as a human and was resurrected by(himself)as god."the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" said Rabbi David Kimhi - " therefore, with reference to this god whom you call Father, Son and Holy Spirit, - that part which you call the Father must be prior to that which you call Son, for if they were always coexistent would have to be called twin brothers.More over, if the Son is the Father what of Mary getting pregnant? Is this not an incestuous congregation? The Father has sex with the mother to conceive the Son who is also the Father.....so technically the Son, who is also the father, had sex with his mother"...It's all very - Oedipus, isn't it ?Do you not agree with what they believe about their own gods and religions, Dimtim8967?
This is not a topic about christians. As I said to Poly, if you want to discuss that interesting topic, start your own thread. This one is about muslims and jews.
So please stick to the specific topic. Muslim and Jewish god or gods. christianity is irrelevant in this thread.
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@FLRW
Yes, Zeki Saritoprak, a professor of Islamic studies at John Carroll University in Cleveland, points out that in the Quran there's the Biblical story of Jacob asking his sons whom they'll worship after his death."Jacob's sons replied, 'We will worship the God of your fathers' — Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac. He is the God," Saritoprak says. "So this God that Jacob worshipped, this God that Abraham, Isaac worshipped, is the same God that Muslims worship today."
I like that. It is very helpful. Thanks.
Would the Jews agree with this position? Or at least even one Jewish (Liberal) scholar?
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@fauxlaw
Ask Abraham. He's the father of the two sides. But recall whose is the birthright.
Hmmm and how do you propose I might ask Abraham? He is dead.
Remember I am not a theist - and I don't pray to god, let alone to a dead man.
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@rosends
@BrotherDThomas
Rosends, ungodly rewriter of the Hebrew Bible and other Jewish writings, and runaway from Jewish biblical axioms, and calls His Yahweh God a LIAR,YOUR DECEIVING AND LYING QUOTE: "the two religions share a God concept but have different actual Gods in that each claims that the God did something that the other did not do, so they cannot be the same."As if your outright ungodly misinformation wasn't enough in the Flat Earth thread, now you insidiously propose that the Gods in question are not the same? WTF! Rosends, when does your Bible and religious history stupidity ever end?!!!ENOUGH of your Satanic Devil Speak within this forum where I will prove that your brutal serial killer God Yahweh, Jesus, and Allah are the same god through the decent of Abraham, you Bible ignorant fool! Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are the Abrahamic Religions, and their particular Gods named below are the same god, period!HEBREW YAHWEH God is through Abraham:And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.” (Exodus 3:6)CHRISTIAN JESUS God is through Abraham:Jesus said: “I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” (Matthew 22:32)MUSLIM ALLAH God is through Abraham:Say you: 'We believe in God, and in that which has been sent down on us and sent down on Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob, and the Tribes, and that which was given to Moses and Jesus and the Prophets, of their Lord; we make no division between any of them, and to Him we surrender.’ (Quran, chapter 2, verse 136)Rosends, isn’t it about time that you go to where you will be more comfortable with your complete Hebrew Bible ignorance? Here is an appropriate “Children’s Hebrew Forum” for you to reside in, okay? You can thank me later: https://www.jewishedproject.orgNEXT?
Hi Brother,
firstly, this topic has nothing to do with christianity. Leave it to your own topic - if you wish to start one. Thanks. Secondly, please don't abuse people on this thread. This is your first warning. rosends is entitled to her opinions. as you are. yet, opinions do not extend to abuse.
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@rosends
Don't worry -- I'm here to fix your ignorance. I care...I truly and deeply care and want you to become better so that you can leave the house wearing your big boy pants and without being ashamed of who you are and everything you don't know.You wrote:" now you insidiously propose that the Gods in question are not the same?"I'll type slowly and use small words because I want you to be able to follow along and you might not have access to an aide who can help you with the tough parts. There are two components -- the God idea and the God character. If there are two accounts of the behavior, but both accounts are attributed to a character which has a singular set of characteristics, then there must be two separate parallel characters -- no one singular character can do two mutually exclusive actions. Islam claims that God, as a particular character, did certain things and Judaism claims that God did others things which are exclusive of what Islam claims God did (I provided an example of this, but I guess you had to go back to your room before you got to read it in the common area). But theologically (that's a big word, I know, but I'll wait while you look it up) the ideas behind the nature of God are the same in the 2 religions. Therefore, they must be pointing to 2 distinct characters but one idea of that character, unless you say that one entire account and the religion that follows it is wrong.If two constructs disagree on the nature and characteristics of the divine figure, but attribute all the same actions to that figure, then they don't share an idea but have an actual figure in common. This is pretty basic stuff. I'm sure your cardboard "I can read, level 2" books can help you understand.Your next bit of froth was an attempt to prove that three characters are the same because three texts all use the same language to describe that figure. Had you been paying attention, you would understand how irrelevant that is. I can attribute a characteristic to three different characters, or even an action and that doesn't make them all identical if I ALSO attribute something to only one of them. You quoted an idea in common. My cat and my dog can both be said to have 4 legs, but that's not where descriptions end, only where they start. I'm trying to reference animals because I sense that that is the limit of your daily interactions.Keep on being adorable and don't forget to take your meds!
Hi rosenends,
thanks for your input, I appreciate it. Yet I will also respectfully request that you lay of the abuse towards Brother - even if it is done by humor. Thanks,.