How do you define "God"...

Author: SkepticalOne

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#151
Shila
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@Stephen
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Nope. There was no insurrection at that point in time. This insurrection had already happened, and this is what they were all on trial for. The bible clearly states that there HAD been an insurrection- past tense.  And that Barabas was one of those that had committed insurrection "WITH HIM", Jesus.
Barabbas, a well-known criminal who had been imprisoned “for an insurrection in the city, and for murder” (Luke 23:19). But he was not as popular as Jesus. Therefore less of a threat to the Romans.

Wrong again. (1) The city mentioned here is Jerusalem. (2)  The population of that city didn't even know who Jesus was. (3) Barabbas was a zealot and a murder of Romans.  Who had Jesus murdered? 
In Matthew 21:1–11, Mark 11:1–11, Luke 19:28–44, and John 12:12–19, Jesus descends from the Mount of Olives towards Jerusalem, and the crowds lay their clothes on the ground to welcome him as he triumphantly enters Jerusalem. The triumphal entry is traditionally commemorated on Palm Sunday.

Jesus fit the description of the promised messiah that all Jews were familiar with from reading of the scriptures.

(1) There is absolutely no evidence concerning dispensation offered by Rome to Jewish zealot murderers. It is rubbish that this was any type of Jewish custom.

It is more likely that this was the gospel writer are alluding to the two goats of Yom Kippur as told in Leviticus.  
Pilate refers to the custom of releasing one prisoner at the time of Passover.

FACT. There was never any such Jewish custom. If you insist to the contrary, I would like you to produce the evidence that supports your claim other than the bible.

The Bible quotes Pilate referring to this custom.
John 18:39 But it is your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release ‘the king of the Jews’?”
40 They shouted back, “No, not him! Give us Barabbas!” Now Barabbas had taken part in an uprising.

I have said my theory is that the turning of the tables was a lot more than just a girly hissy fit thrown by Jesus. I believe it was a full-blown rebellion. And it was this that had forced the Romans hand and led to the arrest of all involved to the delight of many of Jewish the high priesthood.
Jesus was definitely a threat to the Jewish high priesthood because he called them brood of vipers.

 I don't know how old you are shila, but name calling the high priesthood would be the last reason they had to want Jesus gone. The Priesthood had a lot to lose if Jesus was to become king priest. They were puppet priests put in place by Rome.  It was a false and corrupt priesthood.

There Are Many Reasons They Wanted Jesus Dead
There were a number of things about Jesus that infuriated the religious leaders. These included.
  1. The claims that He made.
  2. The deeds that He did.
  3. His threat to their religious system.
  4. His threat to their way of life.
  5. The people with whom He socialized.
  6. The lack of respect He had for their religious traditions.
These six things caused outraged among the religious rulers. Consequently they wanted to see Jesus dead.

Jesus wanted to see himself dead so he would fulfil the prophecy.
Jesus predicted His death at least three times in the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke), and the book of John offers even more predictions.

The first time Jesus predicted His death is detailed in Matthew 16:21–23, Mark 8:31–32, and Luke 9:21–22. Jesus had just fed the multitudes, and He said that the “Son of Man must suffer many things” (Mark 8:31); be rejected by the elders, chief priests, and scribes; be killed; and be raised again. Peter then rashly began to rebuke Jesus, and Christ responded, “Get behind me, Satan!” (Matthew 16:33; Mark 8:33). Jesus knew that His death must happen. It was necessary in God’s plan to save the world.

Jesus predicted His death a second time in Matthew 17:22–23, Mark 9:30–32, and Luke 9:43–45. This occurred shortly after the Transfiguration, when Peter, James, and John saw Christ in His heavenly glory. Perhaps this was the reason the disciples were so confused by Jesus telling them He was going to die. At this point, they believed His kingdom was just around the corner. Despite their lack of understanding, they were “afraid to ask” for clarification (Mark 9:32; Luke 9:45).

Matthew 20:17–19, Mark 10:32–34, and Luke 18:31–34 describe the third time Jesus predicted His death. He spoke to His disciples as they were heading up toward Jerusalem for Passover, and He told them how He would be mocked, scourged, crucified, and then rise again. On this occasion also, the disciples did not understand Jesus’ saying because the meaning was hidden from them. They would soon learn what Jesus meant in the events of Good Friday and following.

#152
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@Shila

Stephen wrote: FACT. There was never any such Jewish custom. If you insist to the contrary, I would like you to produce the evidence that supports your claim other than the bible.

The Bible quotes Pilate referring to this custom.

Read what I have wrote:

#153
Shila
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@Stephen
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Stephen wrote: FACT. There was never any such Jewish custom. If you insist to the contrary, I would like you to produce the evidence that supports your claim other than the bible.

The Bible quotes Pilate referring to this custom.

Read what I have wrote:
The Bible quotes Pilates justification.

John 18:39 But it is your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release ‘the king of the Jews’?”
40 They shouted back, “No, not him! Give us Barabbas!” Now Barabbas had taken part in an uprising.

The story (henceforth: Barabbas episode) is mentioned in all four Gospels: Mark 15:6-15, Matt. 27:15-26, Luke 23:18-24, and John 18:40.

It is in that context that Jesus was crucified. The crowd cheered for the release of Barabbas instead.
#154
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@Shila
Other than this reference in John, do you have any evidence that this supposed practice actually existed? There is nothing in Jewish law that involves releasing someone found guilty of a crime, at Passover or at any other time.

Of course, crucifiction wasn't allowed under Jewish law and the judicial methods bear no resemblance to Jewish law, so a random non-Jewish reference seems equally useful.
#155
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@Shila
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Stephen wrote: FACT. There was never any such Jewish custom. If you insist to the contrary, I would like you to produce the evidence that supports your claim other than the bible.

The Bible quotes Pilate referring to this custom.

Read what I have wrote:
The Bible quotes Pilates justification.

So that is no, then. 

#156
Shila
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@rosends
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Other than this reference in John, do you have any evidence that this supposed practice actually existed? There is nothing in Jewish law that involves releasing someone found guilty of a crime, at Passover or at any other time.

Of course, crucifiction wasn't allowed under Jewish law and the judicial methods bear no resemblance to Jewish law, so a random non-Jewish reference seems equally useful.
The ultimate evidence to support the Biblical quotes was the people taking up pilate’s  offer and choosing Barabbas over Jesus.
The people were there and heard the offer. If it was  not a Jewish custom that involves releasing someone found guilty of a crime, at Passover or at any other time. the Jewish crowd would have denounce or rejected Pilate’s fabrication of Jewish customs.

Even the Romans did not object to  Pilate’s offer to the crowd. Here the truth prevailed.

#157
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@Shila
 If it was  not a Jewish custom that involves releasing someone found guilty of a crime, at Passover or at any other time. the Jewish crowd would have denounce or rejected Pilate’s fabrication of Jewish customs.
Or this is just more proof that the account is inaccurate. If, without corroboration, you see the text of the gospels as self-proving, then that's fine. It is ahistorical and counter to other texts, but if that's the way you go, then best of luck with that.
#158
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 If it was  not a Jewish custom that involves releasing someone found guilty of a crime, at Passover or at any other time. the Jewish crowd would have denounce or rejected Pilate’s fabrication of Jewish customs.
Or this is just more proof that the account is inaccurate. If, without corroboration, you see the text of the gospels as self-proving, then that's fine. It is ahistorical and counter to other texts, but if that's the way you go, then best of luck with that.
The accounts in the Bible had a disastrous effect on the Jews. Their  Holy Temple and Holy city Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, the Romans slaughtered the Jews and replaced Judaism with the Roman Catholic Church which has over a billion followers. 
What further facts are the Jews looking for or trying to contradict when history back the Roman occupation of Israel during biblical times? The Jewish disciples of Jesus even went over to the Roman side.
The Holocaust would not have been justified if Christians were not convinced the Jews were Christ killers. Isn’t it a bit late to deny the Bible?
#159
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@Shila
I haven't denied the bible, just the gospels.
#160
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I haven't denied the bible, just the gospels.
The Old Testament did not work for the Jews. The Jews were repeated punished by God who even allowed their neighbours to invade and occupy their homeland throughout their history.
The New Testament and the Gospels confirmed that.
How does picking one over the other help your case Rabbi?

#161
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@Shila
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Other than this reference in John, do you have any evidence that this supposed practice actually existed? There is nothing in Jewish law that involves releasing someone found guilty of a crime, at Passover or at any other time.

Of course, crucifiction wasn't allowed under Jewish law and the judicial methods bear no resemblance to Jewish law, so a random non-Jewish reference seems equally useful.
The ultimate evidence to support the Biblical quotes was the people taking up pilate’s  offer and choosing Barabbas over Jesus.

You are still referencing the bible. This is not external evidence. 

 Simply admit it. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for this dispensation or that it was a "Jewish custom". I can accept that you simply believe the bible version of events.
#162
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@3RU7AL
I've defined what I think gods are multiple times nobody fucking reads anything here nobody pays attention to anything that said here unless it said by a Christian or an atheist so, fuck you. That said atheist still don't get to define god.
#163
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@Polytheist-Witch
I've defined what I think gods are multiple times nobody fucking reads anything here nobody pays attention to anything that said here unless it said by a Christian or an atheist so, fuck you. That said atheist still don't get to define god.
links please
#164
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@ the Witch

I've defined what I think gods are multiple times nobody fucking reads anything here nobody pays attention to anything that said..

I did and I do. I try to pay attention to every thread that grabs my interest.  Such as when you told me about your ancient gods that came from another planet. I thought that interesting considering the bible and all ancient cultures point to the sky when it comes to the origins of their gods.  And you haven't posted anything as interesting since.

 I think that you have just come for another shit, haven't you, you dirty little Witch, you don't have nothing of interest to say any longer.


Polytheist-Witch wrote: I'm here to basically take a shit and walk away. #140

Have you run out of woods to take a shit in Witch?



#165
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@Shila
The Old Testament did not work for the Jews. The Jews were repeated punished by God who even allowed their neighbours to invade and occupy their homeland throughout their history.
The New Testament and the Gospels confirmed that.
How does picking one over the other help your case Rabbi?
The Torah did work for the Jews and it still does. In fact, your statement proves it, so thanks!
The gospels are just add ons that have no relevance.
How does attaching to fiction help your case?
#166
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@Shila
The Old Testament did not work for the Jews. The Jews were repeated punished by God who even allowed their neighbours to invade and occupy their homeland throughout their history.
The New Testament and the Gospels confirmed that.
How does picking one over the other help your case Rabbi?
The Torah did work for the Jews and it still does. In fact, your statement proves it, so thanks!
The gospels are just add ons that have no relevance.
How does attaching to fiction help your case?

from Ha'aretz Magazine, Friday, October 29, 1999)
Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs' acts are legendary stories, we did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, we did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon. Those who take an interest have known these facts for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and doesn't want to hear about it

This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai.

Most of those who are engaged in scientific work in the interlocking spheres of the Bible, archaeology and the history of the Jewish people—and who once went into the field looking for proof to corroborate the Bible story—now agree that the historic events relating to the stages of the Jewish people's emergence are radically different from what that story tells.

What follows is a short account of the brief history of archaeology, with the emphasis on the crises and the big bang, so to speak, of the past decade. The critical question of this archaeological revolution has not yet trickled down into public consciousness, but it cannot be ignored.

Israel Finkelstein, chairman of the Archaeology Department at Tel Aviv University, with archaeology historian Neil Asher Silberman, has just published a book called "The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Text."

"The Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land [of Canaan] in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the twelve tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united kingdom of David and Solomon, described in the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom."

Jerusalem was essentially a cow town, not the glorious capital of an empire. These findings have been accepted by the majority of biblical scholars and archaeologists for years and even decades.

The tales of the patriarchs -- Abraham, Isaac and Joseph among others -- were the first to go when biblical scholars found those passages rife with anachronisms and other inconsistencies. The story of Exodus, one of the most powerful epics of enslavement, courage and liberation in human history, also slipped from history to legend when archaeologists could no longer ignore the lack of corroborating contemporary Egyptian accounts and the absence of evidence of large encampments in the Sinai Peninsula ("the wilderness" where Moses brought the Israelites after leading them through the parted Red Sea).

#167
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@Shila
reruns? You have posted this often and have nothing new to say.

So I guess you deny the entirety of the Torah and therefore the gospels are built on nothingness and are similarly invalid. OK. Good luck to you with that.
#168
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reruns? You have posted this often and have nothing new to say.

So I guess you deny the entirety of the Torah and therefore the gospels are built on nothingness and are similarly invalid. OK. Good luck to you with that.
The invention of the Jewish people is not new. 

The Jews are the only people who have been dislodged from their country four times  in their history. Under the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Medians, the Greeks, and now under Western rule.
The Jews were a tribal group surrounded by powerful neighbours like the Egyptians, Assyrians and Babylonians. There never made any contributions to math or science and most of their past were overshadowed by their more advanced neighbours. The Bible began as a book of the larger than life Patriarchs and the invention of the Jewish people in an attempt to reconstruct Jewish history with literary embellishment slanted towards success by inventing prophets and heroes where God rewarded the people when they obeyed his commandments and punished them when they failed. But history is not written in isolation and when the Jews tried to treat the bible as a historical record, contradictions began to expose their literary overreach. Circumcision can only take a people so far and covenants are no guarantee against reality nor can it compensate for the burden of memory carried by the Jews who wished they were better than their neighbours and invented a narrative that reflected their deepest desires.
Now that we know why the contradictions were necessary in the creation of the Jewish people we can try to piece together how these contradictions served their narrative.

#169
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@Shila
funny...I don't see any Assyrians or Babylonians around and the Egyptians today aren't really as advanced as the Israelis in many areas. So I don't know what your point is. If you want to go off on a tangent and try to deny the underpinnings of Judaism, feel free to do so here as you have elsewhere. it is a non-starter. You are denying the three major western religions that way and that's fine by me. Throwing together unrelated sentences, false statements and conspiracy theories can be your fun pastime.  You will have to pursue it without me. If you ever develop any actual questions about Judaism, let me know. Meanwhile, I'll let your statements which amount to nothing just sit here and fester, as they have elsewhere.
#170
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@Shila
funny...I don't see any Assyrians or Babylonians around and the Egyptians today aren't really as advanced as the Israelis in many areas. So I don't know what your point is. If you want to go off on a tangent and try to deny the underpinnings of Judaism, feel free to do so here as you have elsewhere. it is a non-starter. You are denying the three major western religions that way and that's fine by me. Throwing together unrelated sentences, false statements and conspiracy theories can be your fun pastime.  You will have to pursue it without me. If you ever develop any actual questions about Judaism, let me know. Meanwhile, I'll let your statements which amount to nothing just sit here and fester, as they have elsewhere.
There is an explanation why Assyrians or Babylonians around and the Egyptians today aren't really as advanced as the Israelis in many areas. 

Modern Jews may traditionally trace their ancestry to the Holy Land, but a new genetic study finds otherwise. A detailed look at thousands of genomes finds that Ashkenazim—who make up roughly 80% of the world's Jews, including 90% of those in America and half of those in Israel—ultimately came not from the Middle East, but from Western Europe, perhaps Italy. 

Most mainstream historians regard Ashkenazim as the descendants of Jews who moved into central Europe from the Middle East sometime before the 12th century C.E. Ashekenazim, like most members of this religious, cultural, and ethnic group, traditionally trace their ancestry to the ancient Israelites. The Israelites, in turn, arose between 3000 and 4000 years ago in the Middle East, according to both Biblical sources and archaeological evidence. They dispersed after the Romans destroyed their Second Temple in Jerusalem in 70 C.E.

Recent genetic work has supported this traditional view. Two studies, one led by geneticist Harry Ostrer of the New York University School of Medicine, and the other by geneticist Doron Behar of the Rambam Health Care Campus in Haifa, Israel, traced the three main Diaspora groups—Ashkenazim, Sephardim from Spain and Portugal, and Oriental Jews from the Middle East—to people who all lived in the Middle East about 2000 years ago. The Ostrer study used DNA from the nucleus of the cell in its analyses, and the Behar study used both nuclear and mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA); the latter comes from tiny bodies in the living cell that provide it with energy. Many other researchers considered these results to be definitive at the time.

#171
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Nope, nope and nope. Lazy and liar. Worthless atheists.
#172
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Polytheist-Witch: Nope, nope and nope. Lazy and liar. Worthless atheists.
Let the Rabbi speak.
#173
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@Poly


A Zedku for Poly.


Nope, nope and nope.

Lazy and liar,

Worthless atheists,

Chanted big mother troll,

As she danced naked,

In the light of the full moon.


#174
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@Poly


A Zedku for Poly.


Nope, nope and nope. 

Lazy and liar,

Worthless atheists,

Chanted big mother troll,

As she danced naked,

In the light of the full moon.
Is that why you wrote her this love poem?
#175
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@Shila
Maybe.
#176
Deb-8-a-bull
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Mmmmm. De fine. 

How do ya find him ? 
I'd  define god , i define god real fucking good like. 

How do ya define god ? 

Ha, Now say it in a random funny accent.
Howd ya fine  god.  

How do you define god.
It works doesn't it. 

How do ya de find him a. ? 

No but seriously. 
He is fine. 

Ok now you defind him now. 

#177
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I've  difinded him already.  
#178
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Defineded 
#179
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@Deb-8-a-bull
No but seriously. 
He is fine. 

How much was he fined, Deb?

#180
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@Stephen
But they never found him. 
So he couldn't of been fined. 
They need to fine him first .
Thats what we are trying to do here .


Defining rods might fine him first. 
You ought ta find him. 

Ok Fucking shut up now 
Have a GOOD weekend but step.