Euthyphro's Dilemma

Author: Theweakeredge

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#1
Theweakeredge
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The dilemma poses a simple question:
  • Is an action good because god commands it, or is does god command it because it's good
If the latter is true then good supersedes god, and god's morality is non-unique, open to critique same as any other interpreter - as well - any commands that god makes would inherently have to follow what is established as good, if god were to do things which contradict each other morally and claim both to be moral, then that god is not moral.

If the former is true then morality is relative and arbitrary, completely subject to the view of god at the time, morality is nothing more than obedience, and not actually effective in solving any moral problems, this would put into question the inherent authority often ascribed to Abrahamic gods, and would not make their actions "good" effectively. 

#2
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@Theweakeredge
The bane of divine command theory. Replace "command" with "will" and it becomes the bane of all Theological Voluntarism.
#3
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@Theweakeredge
Neither one, necessarily. Either choice comes with the presupposition that:
1. we are commanded to be good
2. goodness is limited by it being a command

The whole notion is absurd with either. Goodness supersedes. James Madison once wrote that if men were angels, we would not need government [law, or commandments]. We would know that by our free agency, which is the overarching ability to chose our thoughts and actions. regardless of commandments, or law, that choosing right action [goodness] will yield our greatest potential of freedom and light. Goodness is self-fulfilling and expanding freedom to eternal light. Evil is in choosing wrong thought and action, leading to an ultimate loss of freedom. Evil is self-limiting and expanding slavery to ultimate darkness.
#4
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old dilemma that has been debunked thousands of times
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#5
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@fauxlaw
Um - no - you've missed the entire point of the dilemma - we are specifically talking about the root of morality that a divine being draws from for his commands - we are not discussing the general application of good and evil, did you miss that? If good supersedes then you've accepted "god command it because it's good", which means the implications I suggested - you didn't even touch those bud, for a refresher:
If the latter is true then good supersedes god, and god's morality is non-unique, open to critique same as any other interpreter - as well - any commands that god makes would inherently have to follow what is established as good, if god were to do things which contradict each other morally and claim both to be moral, then that god is not moral.
Also... what? Tell me then - if you were to restain yourself from killing would that be evil?
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#6
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@Dr.Franklin
Go ahead then.
#7
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@Theweakeredge
the thrid option is that he is the moral law
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#8
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@Dr.Franklin
That's option one bud.
an action good because god commands it,
Do you pay attention? 

#9
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@Theweakeredge
I’m surprised that an atheist contends God must have some play in the entire exercise. I’m a theist, but this subject exists entirely outside God, and you will notice I never mentioned God. You think that was coincidencidental?
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#10
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@fauxlaw
Um - the dilemma is a question posed to those who accept god - again - it has nothing to do with moral theory in general - it is specifically questioning divine command, that is the purpose of the question. The "Not-mentioning-god" thing isn't a good thing in this respect, because that's what this dilemma is supposed to do. 
#11
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@Theweakeredge
And I am obviously saying the dilemma is self-restricting the discussion. Why?
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#12
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@fauxlaw
Um.... okay? There are several other threads about general morality, here we are specifically asking about divine theory - yes the question is restricting, on purpose, its supposed to get an answer. 
#13
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@Theweakeredge
That's fine, but it happens to restrict even those who acknowledge God, but a God who grants to man free agency to be good on one's own, unlimited choice, without even the acceptance of coercion by way of commandment, because God's commands do not remove man's free agency. I know free agency is a subject with which you disagree, and, apparently, so does Euthyphro. So, argue for your limitations; I'll bow out as one who does not accept limitations.
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#14
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@fauxlaw
uhuh - but you already answered the question - you just refuse to discuss the implications - I mean fine - that's your choice and I won't bother you about if you don't wanna talk about 'em, but that's what I'm interested in currently, at least in this thread. 
#15
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@fauxlaw
Or...Good and bad are universally meaningless concepts.

So we just make it up as we go along.

Just as we make up a loads of other stuff.....Specific GODS or Cockerpoo's for instance.

So it's no wonder that Euthyphro had a dilemma. 

Ancient Greeks sure had a lot of time to sit and think....Well the idle one's, who were privileged enough.


Do philosophers actually achieve anything?.....Or does it all remain a dilemma?
#16
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@Theweakeredge
  • Is an action good because god commands it, or is does god command it because it's good
Neither... ?
#17
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@Theweakeredge
I somewhat answered this question in our recent discussion, feel free to respond to it here if you wish.
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@Theweakeredge
no.
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#19
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RMM

If it is neither, then what is it? Please inform me on the apparent third option
#20
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I don't believe gods are inherently moral or good so I don't think they play into the question of what is or isn't good. 
#21
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@zedvictor4
All science, including philosophy, is imperfect. Therefore, the dilemma remains
#22
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@fauxlaw
Very true.
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@Theweakeredge
Is an action good because god commands it, or is does god command it because it's good
Vice versa
#24
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@Theweakeredge
The solution I here proposed over and over again by apologists is that God and morality are “one in the same”, essentially the idea that goodness is merely “Gods nature”. I find this to be incoherent. At best it suggests that God is incapable of doing anything that is objectively wrong which defeats the idea that he is omnipotent (not to mention contradicts the Bible). At worst it’s logically absurd. Goodness and God are two entirely different concepts. By definition, they cannot be “one on the same”.
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@Theweakeredge
"For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward."  [Doctrine & Covenants 58: 26]  We're supposed to act on our own where there is lacking a commandment, thus putting further in play our free agency because God does not command in all things in the first place. After all, he did give Adam & Eve, and their posterity, dominion over the Earth [Genesis 2].
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#26
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@Double_R
Option one then
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#27
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@fauxlaw
But when he does command stuff (cause he does like - not eat the fruit, and whatever else) - is it good because he say so, or goes god say it because its good?
#28
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@Theweakeredge
All God's commands are for the good of man
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#29
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@fauxlaw
So then god merely says what is good- there isn't anything particularly special about his commands then, he just says what he believes to be good - which can be wrong. 
#30
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@Theweakeredge
Nothing special about good? I'd say there's nothing else about it but good. Goodness keeps the wide world of freedom of choice at hand. Evil does nothing but limit choice.