Why anarcho communism makes no sense

Author: TheUnderdog 3 years ago

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Topic's author

TheUnderdog

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TheUnderdog

04.16.2021 07:14PM

If I strawman here, it is accidental.

Ancoms: We want no government. There should be no state to do anything.

Also Ancoms: We want the state to take everyone's money and distribute it to those who need it. The state should do something here

Same ideology as communism, different names.

Sum1hugme

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Sum1hugme

04.16.2021 07:19PM

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@TheUnderdog

I'm no ancom, but communism Is necessarily anarchistic, because it's a classless system

Topic's author

TheUnderdog

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TheUnderdog

04.16.2021 07:20PM

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@Sum1hugme

So with ancom, there are no classes, but a huge government to make sure everyone has the same amount of wealth?

Sum1hugme

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Sum1hugme

04.16.2021 07:25PM

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@TheUnderdog

In theory there is no government. That would be a ruling class. Communism is possible in small groups of like minded people

Sum1hugme

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Sum1hugme

04.16.2021 07:27PM

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@TheUnderdog

Communism isn't about ensuring everyone has exactly the same but providing for everyone what they need. Marx thought the marketplace was an economic eden, where men traded as equals, instead of subjugated to factory work out of economic necessity for subsistence pay.

Topic's author

TheUnderdog

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TheUnderdog

04.16.2021 07:31PM

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@Sum1hugme

In theory, there would be a huge government. How else are you going to take rich people's recourses and give it to the poor? This comes into confliction with anarchy.

Earth

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Earth

04.16.2021 07:45PM

Anarcho-Capitalism is the ideology that doesn't make sense. Government is bad, but planet wide corporations that own and control everything is fine.

Sum1hugme

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Sum1hugme

04.16.2021 07:51PM

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@TheUnderdog

You're talking about socialism, where the state controls the means of production. In communism, the workers control the mean of production. There is no forced seizure of property required. Those in a commune choose what to give the commune, if it's an anarchist commune.

Topic's author

TheUnderdog

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TheUnderdog

04.16.2021 07:51PM

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@Earth

Corporations owning something is victimless. People owning property is victimless. You owning a computer is victimless. The government telling corporations how to run something that they built is (with exceptions) tyrannical. If you build a $100 million mansion(that was very huge and could house hundreds of people) and the government forces you to house 100 strangers in your house without your consent, it's easy for you to do, but you shouldn't be forced to do this. Ancoms want to abolish private property and force you to house people without your consent, which kindof violates the 3rd amendment.

Topic's author

#10

TheUnderdog

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TheUnderdog

04.16.2021 07:56PM

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@Sum1hugme

In communism, the workers control the mean of production.

But isn't the business owner technically a worker and he would own what he produces(the business)? You own what you produce. If you produce a company, you own that company. You own all the profits that come from the company and you own the expenses of the labor from that company. If workers want to own a company themselves, they can try and build one the same way the ultra rich have done. If it was easy to be rich, everyone would be rich. Everyone wants to be rich, but no one is willing to do the work.

Those in a commune choose what to give the commune, if it's an anarchist commune.

Your referring to a donation. A communist country forces you to give, it's not voluntary.

#11

Sum1hugme

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Sum1hugme

04.16.2021 08:08PM

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@TheUnderdog

There are worker owned businesses. Marx saw it as an injustice that people must, from economic necessity, allow their labor to be exploited in a bastardized version of what was formerly an artisan or craftsman's way to make a living. A country that seizes the means of production is a socialist country. Marx saw socialism as a step in the road to communism but state socialism ended in lots of death. Communism only works in small groups of like minded people

Topic's author

#12

TheUnderdog

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TheUnderdog

04.16.2021 08:11PM

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@Sum1hugme

A worker can own a business by investing in the stock market though. Yet they want the rewards of owning a business without the risks. Communism doesn't work at all. It takes from the producers of companies and gives to those unwilling to take entrepreneurial risks themselves. If you want to own a business, either invest in the stock market or make your own.

#13

Earth

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Earth

04.16.2021 08:17PM

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@TheUnderdog

Thats stupid and no Ancoms actually believe that.

Topic's author

#14

TheUnderdog

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TheUnderdog

04.16.2021 08:21PM

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@Earth

Thats stupid and no Ancoms actually believe that.

The definition of ancom is according to wikipedia:

Anarcho-communism,[1][2][3][4][5] also known as anarchist communism,[a] is a political philosophy and anarchist school of thought which advocates the abolition of the state, capitalism, wage labour, social hierarchies [18] and private property

So ancoms do want to abolish private property.

#15

RationalMadman

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RationalMadman

04.16.2021 08:23PM

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@TheUnderdog

Would you like me to help you attack Anarcho-Communism?

Your current attack is very shallow.

Topic's author

#16

TheUnderdog

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TheUnderdog

04.16.2021 08:28PM

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@RationalMadman

Eh, sure; I'll take anyone's support in politics.

#17

RationalMadman

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RationalMadman

04.16.2021 08:30PM

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@TheUnderdog

You are trying to attack anarchism itself, so base your attack like that and start off with the same topic with 'anarchy' instead of 'ancom'.

Then, realise the error you made. You assumed ancoms want a government to enforce it, they don't but they settle for it because society hasn't evolved to the level where we share for the greater good, so readily.

Once you appreciate that, you will realise the flaw in Ancom isn't contradiction, it's impractical idealism. Attack based on humans being too selfishly impulsive for it to work.

#18

Sum1hugme

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Sum1hugme

04.16.2021 09:04PM

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@TheUnderdog

Marx distinguished the working class from the capitalist class by the need to work out of economic necessity. So if you are a worker, but your stocks earn enough that you aren't working out of economic necessity, then you are part of the capitalist class.

Communism necessarily doesn't have a state. So characterizing state socialism as communism is a false comparison.

8 days later

Topic's author

#19

TheUnderdog

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TheUnderdog

04.25.2021 08:59PM

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@Sum1hugme

Communism necessarily doesn't have a state.

Yeah it does. How else are you going to take rich people’s money?

#20

Greyparrot

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Greyparrot

04.25.2021 11:11PM

Marx advocated for equity, not equality.

You can never have Equity under anarchy.

127 days later

#21

drlebronski

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drlebronski

08.31.2021 10:20PM

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@TheUnderdog

you clearly don't understand what anarcho communism is.

Ancoms: We want no government. There should be no state to do anything.

Also Ancoms: We want the state to take everyone's money and distribute it to those who need it. The state should do something here

Same ideology as communism, different names.

Anarcho-Communism wants the state abolished (your referring to state socialism right now).

meaning no taxes, rent, cops, private property, etc, etc.

they believe humans can live peacefully in a society where hierarchy is nonexistent.

where other humans don't have more power over others.

that's the dollar tree version of anarchy and anarcho-communism.

#22

drlebronski

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drlebronski

08.31.2021 10:23PM

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@TheUnderdog

Yeah it does. How else are you going to take rich people’s money?

lol super big strawman right there.

communism is not when you take rich peoples money.

communism is "a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs."

in anarchy money wouldn't exist

therefore the rich wouldn't exist.

#23

dfss9788

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dfss9788

08.31.2021 11:38PM

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@TheUnderdog

From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his ruthlessness