Vaccine Passports

Author: coal

Posts

Total: 90
Topic's author
#1
coal
coal's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 1,950
3
3
9
coal's avatar
coal
3
3
9
What do you all think about vaccine passports?


The need for vaccination passports for future international travel will soon become an inescapable reality. If Canadians wish to remain internationally mobile, we must proactively seek a solution that integrates international standards and ensures the privacy of Canadian data.

Vaccination certification is the next challenge on the road to global pandemic recovery. The Trudeau government must ensure Canadians are prepared for that eventuality. Prime Minister Trudeau’s concern about the “fairness” of vaccine passports, in that they could create classes of citizens with different freedoms, is understandable. His government will need to weigh the advice of health experts against the broader economic needs and those of Canadian in general.
#2
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@coal
I'm not convinced we are at a point where immunity passports are practical. 

WiKi: SARS-CoV-2 antibodies' potency and protective period have not been established.  Therefore, a positive antibody test may not imply immunity to a future infection. Further, whether mild or asymptomatic infections produce sufficient antibodies for a test to detect has not been established.

We don't yet know how well immunity works or how long it lasts or whether present immunities will defend against rapid mutation.
Present antibody testing still seems pretty unreliable (80% but as low as 41% accurate when testing asymptomatic subjects (the most important subjects to detect).

With that much uncertainty it seems impossible to assert the value of such a passport.

I do think employers have a responsibility to be asking employees to immunize if they normally interact with customers.  Same as a salmonella outbreak, if disease transmission can be traced to businesses out of compliance with OSHA, that business should be subject to investigations, fines, and sometimes criminal charges.  Let's get a sense of how much transmission can be prevented in the private and personal sector and then, if we are able to assert immunity with confidence, we might consider some standard state/fed document.
#3
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,169
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
Need a Vaccine Passport to travel within the nation but not an ID to vote. Got it
#4
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
People get all kinds of vaccines before they travel. It's just not usually for western nations. 
#5
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
@oromagi
PW: Agreed

Oromagi - You are citing the statistic for PARTIAL VACCINATION - even though FULL VACCINATION is over 90% - of course partially vaccinating isn't going to grant the full benefit of the vaccination, that would be like saying eating a PB&J doesn't taste as good because there isn't jelly - well of course not, its not DONE.

Under real-world conditions, mRNA vaccine effectiveness of full immunization (≥14 days after second dose) was 90% against SARS-CoV-2 infections regardless of symptom status; vaccine effectiveness of partial immunization (≥14 days after first dose but before second dose) was 80%
#6
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Theweakeredge

Oromagi - You are citing the statistic for PARTIAL VACCINATION - even though FULL VACCINATION is over 90% - of course partially vaccinating isn't going to grant the full benefit of the vaccination, that would be like saying eating a PB&J doesn't taste as good because there isn't jelly - well of course not, its not DONE.

In fact, I am citing a statistic regarding the reliability of antibody testing, not vaccinations.  All 3 vaccines available to US citizens are more reliable than antibody testing but before we consider whether or not to have a vaccine passport, we should make sure that the passport is accurate enough to instill confidence.
#7
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,027
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@coal
I think the elite governments of the world gave up long ago the idea that people should be free to be in charge of their individual destinies and as an extension: free to suffer individual consequences for poor lifestyle choices.

They just needed to remind the people with this.
#8
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,169
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Greyparrot
Just move to the South. We sure as hell aren’t going to enforce the passports. Feds can come and guard every state border if they want. Good luck to them

#9
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,027
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ILikePie5
I would if I wasn't invisible to the government up here while I graciously allow the taxpayers up here to fill my crypto bank.
#10
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
Vaccine passports are an issue I presented last fall as a likely scenario to come out of a Biden administration as still another Marxist class distinction. Proletariat, Vaccinat, and Bourgeois. Same as it always was. Karl Marx never ran a lemonade stand, nor did he ever run a vaccine station. The guy just never understood industry, and Biden never understood squat.
#11
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,276
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@ILikePie5
Just move to the South. We sure as hell aren’t going to enforce the passports. Feds can come and guard every state border if they want.
Funny, those are the same states complaining about migrants coming in with COVID.
#12
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,027
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
Funny, those are the same states complaining about migrants coming in with COVID.
COVID is the only language a gated NIMBY radical leftist can hear.
#13
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,276
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
NIMBY refers to types of construction, not types of people.
#14
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,027
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
Trust me, you wouldn't think for a second about sharing your living space with a person who doesn't speak a language you can understand.

#15
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,276
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
Also, can you just drop the “radical leftist” talking point? It just sounds stupid when one calls everyone who disagrees with them radical.
#16
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,027
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
Sorry, but promoting illegal immigration is radical.
Topic's author
#17
coal
coal's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 1,950
3
3
9
coal's avatar
coal
3
3
9

Explain why you are blocking me. 
#18
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,276
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
Trust me, you wouldn't think for a second about sharing your living space with a person who doesn't speak a language you can understand.
I live in the Bronx, I’m surrounded by people who speak all kinds of languages so you’ll have to excuse me if I have a difficult time understanding white bigotry.

#19
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,027
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R

They don't live in your backyard though.
#20
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,276
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
Sorry, but promoting illegal immigration is radical.
Sure is, now point me to someone who is doing that and I’ll call them a radical too.
#21
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,027
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
Anyone who uses the word "migrants" like you did to describe illegal migrants as you clearly did in post #11 is obviously a radical.
#22
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,027
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
you’ll have to excuse me if I have a difficult time understanding white bigotry.
Ok then. Here is a video to clear up bigotry against people afflicted with white skin.


Mind you this is a GOP fucktard doing this.


#23
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,276
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
They don't live in your backyard though.
My grandmother didn’t speak a word of English, I sure never had a problem with her spending weeks in my house growing up. Sorry bro, that’s just not going to work here.
#24
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,626
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot
Thank God we Christians don't want to take care of any poor people. If you are not worth $500 million you are not a Christian.
(Kenneth Copeland is worth $760 million.)
#25
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,276
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
Anyone who uses the word "migrants" like you did to describe illegal migrants as you clearly did in post #11 is obviously a radical.
It helps to pay attention to conversations before coming in.

I was referencing the right wing talking point that the Biden administration is allowing COVID infected migrants into “our” communities. Yet the people complaining about this are the same people who think lockdowns, mask mandates, and social distancing guidelines are government tyranny. So the same people who will pack themselves into indoor spaces without masks are the same people who are all of a sudden worried about COVID once it’s carried in by brown people. It’s absurdly transparent.
#26
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,276
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
Here is a video to clear up bigotry against people afflicted with white skin.
Talking issue with bigotry against brown people is not an endorsement of bigotry against white people. Not sure what your point is, not watching a 30 min video.
#27
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,169
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Double_R
Funny, those are the same states complaining about migrants coming in with COVID.
Ever heard of federalism? States don’t control borders with other nations. Your buddy Joe Biden does and he’s letting them pour into our nation. Makes you wonder if he cares huh
#28
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,169
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Double_R
So the same people who will pack themselves into indoor spaces without masks are the same people who are all of a sudden worried about COVID once it’s carried in by brown people. It’s absurdly transparent.
The opposite is true too lol. Y’all are crazy about Covid, but have no problem letting illegals with Covid into the nation. Talk about a super spreader.
#29
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,084
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@coal
Blocking is an immature strategy.

Theweakerone blocked me too, simply because I continued to disagree with them,
#30
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,084
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Double_R
Anyone who won't change their mind is a bigot.

Bigotry is just as much the assumption of the recipient,  as it is, the output of the opinionated commentator.

Bigots tend to refer to bigots as bigots, and vice versa.