" I’m a cop of 20 years service & ex soldier and I'm done".

Author: Stephen

Posts

Total: 16
Topic's author
#1
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2

Extract: 

"I’m done with grandstanding cops, dancing for YouTube, wearing rainbows as self promotion, kneeling for a twitter photo, lecturing the public about things that shouldn’t concern us, forgetting we are the law police, not the public morals police, Im done with them doing anything other rather than actual policing. I’m done with the false narrative that suggests this is the norm and that all cops are more interested in being woke social workers than doing their job. A false narrative we have facilitated by allowing this self indulgent, shameless self promotion of a few individuals, to proliferate."

Read the full column;

#2
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
LOL! So if your job/career is a police officer, you shouldn't be "doing anything other rather than actual policing" in your personal time or based on your personal beliefs?

Love the hypocrisy, this dude is one of these edgy right-wing rebels 'oh why are we being pressured to conform, why doesn't everyone conform to what I want instead?!'
Topic's author
#3
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2

@ madman

why doesn't everyone conform to what I want instead?!'


Where is it that he say's anything resembling that comment?   Is it your imagination running marathons again.
#4
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
I have always felt that being a police officer, EMT or fireman is a calling. To see someone decide to give up on that is sad. The complaints are well stated and legitimate. Bad cops like bad priests ruin it for the people in it for the good they can do to serve their community. I work with lots of law enforcement. They are basically there to help the community. People forget they often deal with drug addicts, violent criminals, domestic situations and child endangerment. The issues right now are more training bad ideas than bad cops. This was well written. I hope people take time to read the whole thing. 
Topic's author
#5
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Polytheist-Witch

The issues right now are more training bad ideas than bad cops. This was well written. I hope people take time to read the whole thing. 

 A+1, Witch. I couldn't agree more.


"I’m done with cops being told they are somehow lesser without a degree and that instincts are bias and bad. That experience and street knowledge is discriminatory. I’m done with the lies that the College of Policing is on our side. That the courts value and support us. That the IOPC isn’t an insidiously untrustworthy organisation out to get us. That the HMIC understands policing."


#6
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,023
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Stephen
That's fine. George Floyd square is done with cops too.
#7
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Stephen
I'm not certain whether Johnson is writing about himself.  Johnson was a soldier and the police officer of 20 years he seems to be describing but Johnson didn't quit in 2021, he was forced to retire in 1999 due to mental health problems.  If Johnson is reprinting somebody else's writing, he provides no source or authorship.  If Johnson is writing about his own experience (as seems to be the case) then all the contemporary references to YouTube and Antifa seem strange because Johnson never experienced any of that as a police officer in the 90's.  Johnson is a successful crime novelist and beekeeper who lives in the Welsh countryside.  When Johnson talks about corrupt senior officers, bureaucracy, politicians he seems to referring to his present campaign to bring a civil lawsuit against Libyan nationals who murdered a police officer in 1984 in Johnson's presence.

If Johnson is the author, that might explain why the complaint is written as a general condemnation of everybody rather than a specific allegation of any wrongdoing.  I guess we are all included when Johnson describes "the public" as violent, lying, abusive, spitting, constantly screaming for destruction of anything and everyone if they don't get their own way.  If that is really any police officer's perception of the populace he is charged with protecting, that the whole of that public is violent and lying, then I would say that any relationship that officer  has with any part of the public should be quickly dissolved and good riddance.
#8
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
When you go through the Criminal Justice programs in colleges you are not warned or educated on the politics of the system. It was basically during my internship I found out how much getting reelected plays in what you do in court. Chief of Police, Sherriff, Judges, Prosecutors are all elected and getting reelected is priority.  That is why once a Judge gets on the Supreme Court their politics seem to change, no more pleasing the constituents. Jon Oliver who I don't really like does a great segment on this show about Judges and elections. But it all bleeds down to the guys on the street whether cops, probation or parole. Don't even get me started on DHHR. 
Topic's author
#9
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@oromagi
I'm not certain whether is Johnson is writing about himself.

Interesting post. 

He did a follow up today:

saying :  "In the last twenty-four hours, over a quarter of a million people have read the ‘I’m done‘ post. One cop wrote to me anonymously. These are their words.
I’m done too.

#10
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Stephen
forgetting we are the law police, not the public morals police, Im done with them doing anything other rather than actual policing.

LOL! So if your job/career is a police officer, you shouldn't be "doing anything other rather than actual policing" in your personal time or based on your personal beliefs?




why doesn't everyone conform to what I want instead?!'


Where is it that he say's anything resembling that comment?   Is it your imagination running marathons again.
No, it's a very logical way to interpret what he was demanding from other cops.

#11
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Stephen
-> @oromagi
I'm not certain whether is Johnson is writing about himself.

Interesting post. 

He did a follow up today:

saying :  "In the last twenty-four hours, over a quarter of a million people have read the ‘I’m done‘ post. One cop wrote to me anonymously. These are their words.
I’m done too.
I read that one, too and noted that the specific complaints seemed exaggerated and archaic.  For example,

  • It is not true that "Hendon, the flagship of police training has been sold off to developers"
    • It is true that some older buildings on the site were sold and new one built.  Hendon is still the flagship of training.
  • the swimming pool is gone
    • Police now train in local pools minus the expense of maintaining their own pool
  • the gyms, canteens, police stations are gone
    • most police gymnasiums have been closed.  Met police instead free membership at most London gyms.
    • Police canteens have been closed during the pandemic.  It is true that some police have been fined for violating COVID restrictions by eating together in cafes without social distancing.
    • It is true that many small stations have been closed, mostly due to lack of use.  Even when a small day facility was closer, most Londoners seemed to prefer the 32 burough stations open 24/7.  I understand why a police officer might prefer a small, underused local station but the inefficiency and expense was enormous.
    • custody suites locations are being upgraded and so there is some temporary overbooking at some facilities
  • Scotland Yard was demolished and sold
    • True but not before a new, upgraded Scotland Yard was built.  This is the third time HQ has relocated and the old site sold in Met history.
  • Police section housing is gone
    • It used to be the Met focused on recruiting single middle class men.  The pay was terrible but the city provided some dormitory style housing with canteens and stores.  The facilities were always considered sub-standard and then considered outmoded as police salaries came in line and the Met tried to recruit a more diverse community.  There has been some reconsideration of this now that housing prices are so expensive in the city center and many police are forced to commute long distances.  The pandemic has also shifted a lot of police work to work from home which, if preserved, may include massive efficiencies in office space.
This second anonymous complaint in mostly just as vague as the first letter, with the exception of some specific complaints about fewer police facilities that are both exaggerated and fail to acknowledge more modern and efficient replacements.



#12
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Stephen
I've read the link and the only thing I may be wrong about is him being right-wing. I actually do think he is a Conservative voter but he does actively say negative things about the far-right. He comes across to me as someone who is talking about things the same way those he's complaining about talk about the police, so yeah I stand by calling him an edgy hypocrite as that's what I believe he is. He's done, good for him? I'd rather a frustrated cop or two quit and people be a little too harsh on them with scrutiny than that police abuse be turned the other way to and enabled by notions like 'making a fuss is wrong'.
#13
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@Stephen
As stated in my debate with Bringerofrain in militarizing the police, it is indeed a part of the Police officer's foundational code to:

IA:
In order to properly establish a standard regarding what the "best/correct" thing to do is- we must first identify what it is that the police are trying to do. That means an identification of the goal that the police hope to accomplish, with that in mind, then can the voters reasonably infer what is the "best" thing for the police to do. Previously, I posited that the goal of the police is to enforce the rule of law in society, to uphold the societal contract signed by every citizen. However, such postulation is little more than unsubstantiated claims without any sourcing; as such, I submit the following to reinforce my arguments [1]:

"Standard 1-2.2. Major current responsibilities of police
In assessing appropriate objectives and priorities for police service, local communities should initially recognize that most police agencies are currently given responsibility, by design or default, to:
(a) identify criminal offenders and criminal activity and, where appropriate, to apprehend offenders and participate in subsequent court proceedings;
(b) reduce the opportunities for the commission of some crimes through preventive patrol and other measures;
(c) aid individuals who are in danger of physical harm;
(d) protect constitutional guarantees;
(e) facilitate the movement of people and vehicles;
(f) assist those who cannot care for themselves;
(g) resolve conflict;
(h) identify problems that are potentially serious law enforcement or governmental problems;
(i) create and maintain a feeling of security in the community;
(j)) promote and preserve civil order; and
(k) provide other services on an emergency basis."
It is true that such text does not deliberately states: "uphold the societal contract" - notice that collectively the police do such things as to uphold the contract, specifically: A, B, C, D, F, J - these services, broadly, include idenitfiyng and apprehending criminals breaking the laws and therefore the social contract, and upholding/maintaining the guarentees that the social contract ensures individuals. It is therefore true that police officers in the United State's goals are, broadly, to uphold the societal contract, which includes but is not limited to: guarenteeing constitutional rights to every citizen, apprehending those who abuse the law, etc.. 

IB:
It is true that I have gone on about the societal contract as the very thing that the police are trying to uphold, but I have yet to specifically identify what that is - the foundation for the principles of the United States Police comes from the U.S Constution [2] [3pg10], and the US Legal Code [4]. Therefore, if any specific code of the police goes against the foundational text it is intrinsically not preferred compared to a code that adheres to the foundations of its goals. 

IC:
Recalling the former citation - [1] - we can bring our attention to the standards - multiple which there are - that the police hold themselves to:
"(a) Since police, as an agency of the criminal justice system, have a major responsibility for dealing with serious crime, efforts should continually be made to improve the capacity of police to discharge this responsibility effectively. It should also be recognized, however, that police effectiveness in dealing with crime is often largely dependent upon .the effectiveness of other agencies both within and outside the criminal justice system. Those in the system must work together through liaison, cooperation, and constructive joint effort. This effort is vital to the effective operation of the police and the entire criminal justice system

(b) To achieve optimum police effectiveness, the police should be recognized as having complex and multiple tasks to perform in addition to identifying and apprehending persons committing serious criminal offenses. Such other police tasks include protection of certain rights such as to speak and to assemble, participation either directly or in conjunction with other public and social agencies in the prevention of criminal and delinquent behavior, maintenance of order and control of pedestrian and vehicular traffic, resolution of conflict, and assistance to citizens in need of help such as a disabled person.

(c) Recommendations made in these standards are based on the view that this diversity of responsibility is likely to continue and, more importantly, that police authority and skills are needed to handle appropriately a wide variety of community problems."
The standards can be summarily broken down into the following:
  1. Effectively discharging responsibility in order to deal with crime
  2. Protecting the citizens of the U.S and their rights 
  3. Assisting Citizens in daily life, such that is more than protection


#14
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@Stephen
Thus:
" lecturing the public about things that shouldn’t concern us, forgetting we are the law police, not the public morals police, Im done with them doing anything other rather than actual policing. "
Is blatantly false - it is indeed his job to be a morals police - it is literally his constitutional duty

#15
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Theweakeredge
It's a British cop, there's no 'true' Constitution beyond the basic Bill of Rights in UK. That said, many constitutional nations respect their populace far, far less. 
#16
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@RationalMadman
Fine then - the societal contract that the manga Carta was based off on- also what the British parliamentary is based on - also the universal declaration of civial rights