Happy Criticize Joe Biden Day!

Author: Theweakeredge

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#1
Theweakeredge
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Just submitting that first of all - though - before we get into the criticism - I find it interesting that most left"est" and conservatives dislike Biden, it comes down to what degree and why you dislike him - for example - conservatives are more likely to dislike his rather high number of executive orders, while liberals are more likely to dislike how.... moderate he is on a number of issues. 

Essentially Conservatives dislike him for not being conservative like most other democrats (yay Overton window), and Liberals dislike that he's only moderate and not actually left wing.
#2
RationalMadman
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@Theweakeredge
He's also been quite a cunning guy in how he climbed the political ladder and has said very shocking things at times.

The main reason I find fault with him as President of such a major nation is his aged brain and body are blatantly not truly fit for what he has to do. He is actually extremely lucky (ironically) that the world is on lockdown, so he doesn't have to run around to many international or even national meetings and events, since he can video conference very often and cause no offence.
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#3
Theweakeredge
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@RationalMadman
I could care less about his "aged body", I care more about how he...illegally and unconstitutionally bombed Syria... oh, and the Overflow Facilities, which are totally much better than Trump's thing that we all hated, also... the promised minimum wage at $15? Nope, because Parliamentary - contrary to popular belief, I actually despise Biden, he was literally my last pick of all of the Democratic nominees, yes, all of them. 

We have a conservative democrat in office.... is he better than Trump? in my opinion undoubtedly, but that's literally the bar - I don't like Kamala because of her Police policies, but I would much prefer her to Biden (I would have MUCH preferred Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders though).

#4
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@Theweakeredge
I'm assuming you're referring to what he did under Obama? Or recent events? I wasn't aware of significant recent events like that. Do you know what Bashir al-Assad did to his people?

There are two absolute hardline taboos in the world that other nations will back uses of force to stop:

  1. Chemical weapon usage on the populace.
  2. Sanctioning an act that was intended to harm another nation's people, especially high ranking officials.
Trump is extremely fortunate that Iran didn't overreact to the completely illegal assassination of their General.

The Syrian people were being inhumanely assaulted, not just oppressed, by their very own government. When you talk about invasion of other nations and war, I cannot side with the Left Wing on this matter if they argue pacifism from a nation that itself has caused issues in the middle east before and is undeniably nosy, in the face of absolute tyranny in Syria, is the right approach. I don't side with the Right Wing anyway, so them hypocritically saying that isn't my issue.
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#5
Theweakeredge
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@RationalMadman
The problem being - that is Americans decide to bomb too much, it can actually make matters worse for the native people - I'm not entirely against these sorts of things - but whenever you are bombing Syria in general, with no military target or approval from congress that's a no-no, as there are reasons why we approach things carefully - you know - so we don't make things worse?
#6
Vader
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Criticize Joe Biden day. He failed to ever acknowledge the Armenian Genocide despite promising to do so under the Obama Administration.

Trump just fully supported Turkey, which was my biggest critique of Trump. But at least he didn't lie
#7
oromagi
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No,
you can't always get what you want.
you can't always get what you want.
you can't always get what you want
but if you try sometime
you findyou get what you need.

I didn't want Biden in the primaries but Biden reminds Americans of an important principle in democracies: if you want stagnation, vote for change.  If you want change, vote moderate.  Progressives would do well to note that Biden just signed the most progressive legislation since the New Deal because the minimum wage got dropped.  Even though Sanders and Warren supported the move, if either of them were president now they would not have had the option of dropping minimum wage because their progressive wing would never have stood for it.  Therefore, Sanders or Warren would have been forced to reform the filibuster before trying for a relief bill which would likely have lost Joe Manchin's vote on either.

Now that relief has passed and Biden has built a little capital at the polls, more negotiated advancements become possible.  Only now, Biden and Manchin begin to hint at some filibusterer reform (unthinkable just 60 days ago).  Now, polling on HR1 voting reform, infrastructure, and $15 minimum wage has shifted from 50/50 to 60/40.  $15 min wage was considered extreme left wing in 2012 and now seems popular enough to use as a justification for overriding Republican opposition.  If Democrats can get those three passed this year and avoid unpopular legislation, I think they have a good case for retaining the majority in 2022.
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#8
Theweakeredge
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@oromagi
No... I wholeheartedly disagree with you - first of all you are arguing in "what ifs" and "possibilities" instead of actually addressing the fact that he didn't sign in the 15 dollar wage deal - which is more important than the stimulus bills - and because he actually substantively decreased the bill from what he had promised - does not excuse a thing - Biden is not left - which is my point  - perhaps general Americans should learn that if they want change don't vote for Biden, but that would mean that Biden is not what we want for America to improve, which would contradict your entire narrative about Biden being more successful than what Progressive presidents would have been in office
#9
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Lol you got what you voted for,I feel no sympathy 
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#10
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@Dr.Franklin
I never said that I prefer Trump to Biden, even if I prefer one leader to another I can still criticize that leader, criticizing leaders is a healthy part of any society... so.... criticizing Biden, does not imply that I prefer Trump - it means that I actually want to hold the leader accountable... ya know, unlike most conservatives with Trump
#11
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@Vader
the eternal Greek rage against the turk

#12
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#13
oromagi
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@Vader
Biden failed to ever acknowledge the Armenian Genocide.
Joe Biden:

Today we remember the atrocities faced by the Armenian people in the Metz Yeghern — the Armenian Genocide. From 1915 to 1923, almost 2 million Armenians were deported en mass, and 1.5 million men, women, and children were killed. Greeks, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Syriacs, Arameans, Maronites, and other Christians were also targeted. We must never forget or remain silent about this horrific and systematic campaign of extermination. And we will forever respect the perseverance of the Armenian people in the wake of such tragedy.

It is particularly important to speak these words and commemorate this history at a moment when we are reminded daily of the power of truth, and of our shared responsibility to stand against hate — because silence is complicity. If we do not fully acknowledge, commemorate, and teach our children about genocide, the words “never again” lose their meaning. The facts must be as clear and as powerful for future generations as for those whose memories are seared by tragedy. Failing to remember or acknowledge the fact of a genocide only paves the way for future mass atrocities.

During my years in the Senate, I was proud to lead efforts to recognize the genocide against the Armenian people. Last year, I was pleased to endorse bipartisan legislation in the House and Senate that officially recognized and established an ongoing U.S. commemoration of the Armenian Genocide. If elected, I pledge to support a resolution recognizing the Armenian Genocide and will make universal human rights a top priority for my administration.

I stand today with all Armenians and the Armenian-American community, which has contributed so much to our nation, in remembering and honoring the victims of the Armenian Genocide.

Trump just fully supported Turkey, which was my biggest critique of Trump. But at least he didn't lie
  • In fact, Trump illegally quashed Federal investigations into Turkish violations of Iran Sanctions.  Erdogan's bankers illegally took and hid Iran's oil money in violations of sanctions against Iran's nuclear weapons program.  Erdogan passed out tens of millions of dollars in bribes to make officials look away.  When Turkey lobbied BIden in 2016 to drop the charges, Biden joked that such an interference in US justice would get him impeached.  When Turkey lobbied Trump in 2017, Erdogan wrote a check out to Trump Towers Istanbul  (That is, Trump's personal accounts) and Trump sent a couple of lawyers down to crash the case.  When prosecutors refused to give up, Trump fired them. That's not full support, that is a corrupt business transaction. Trump took an Iranian bribe that lets Iranian leaders stay in power from black market oil while publicly re-instating sanctions and assassinating the guys who bribed him. 
  • Trump abandoned allies in Northern Syria immediately after a call from Erdogan 2 years later and without first consulting the Pentagon or State Dept or Congress.  Whether the dictator had to cut Trump another check for that service is unknown but it is clear who was giving orders and who was taking. 
  • It is ridiculous to say that Trump didn't lie on any topic.  Trump is the most prolific liar in recorded history.  For example, when Trump took Erdogan's bribe and then exposed 20,000 Kurdish allies of 30 years  to swift destruction by Erdogan, Trump falsely claimed that the Kurds were releasing ISIS prisoners when in fact, Turkish allies had done that.  US Intelligence told Trump one thing was true, an evil dictator who had recently written Trump a fat check said the opposite.  Trump chose to promote Erdogan's lies on FOX News in direct contradiction to the truth and the US Government.

#14
Trent0405
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@Theweakeredge
didn't sign in the 15 dollar wage deal
Wasn't this because the Parliamentarian deemed that the Dems didn't have the authority to (or if they were to the Reps could filibuster)? I've heard people say that the Dems could have overruled that decision the Parliamentarian made, but even then, the senate would need to approve it, and when it did go to a vote, 8 Dems voted no.

Put simply, from my understanding, Biden would have had to sway a massive 58-42 decision to a 50-50, and Biden said he felt the bill needed to be passed quickly, so it makes sense why he didn't want to die on this hill, at least if my understanding is correct. I read some CNBC and WaPo articles when this first went down.
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#15
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@Trent0405
Their is no legal backing for the Parlimentarian - his word means literally nothing - he has no constitutional authority and Biden could have very well ignored them
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#16
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@Trent0405
Biden gave up on the bill, and never intended to put the effort in to sway anyone, so it makes me  feel at least that he deliberately let it ber overruled 
#17
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@Theweakeredge
I read a couple articles to get a better understanding and to refresh my memory, this is what I learned...

You can't overrule the Parliamentarian without dealing with the strings attached.

A vote to overrule MacDonough [That's the Parlimentarian] would require the support of all 50 Democrats and Harris. [LINK]
Dems like Dick Durbin have openly voiced opposition against the overruling, so that separate vote would be a whole other battle to fight.

But even with an overruling, it needs to get through the Senate. The original draft had the 15 minimum wage, it got through the house and lost in the Senate (the vote being 58 against and 42 for). The stimulus package with the minimum wage increase was voted on, and it lost decisively. But, when Biden removed it, the vote changed to 50-50, allowing it to pass. You may note his lack of effort, but swaying 8 Senators is a daunting task, notably when you want your bill passed quickly.
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#18
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@Trent0405
I suppose I could accept that argument; however, I do believe that he should have focused on the minimum wage bill and dropped the stimulus; we have been promised this bill for a long time coming, I suppose its not fair to criticize the current president for the failures of the one before him - as Trump's inability to get the stimulus passed means that Biden has to. I'll concede that he is not necessarily in the wrong here, but I would argue that it would have been better for him to have passed the minimum wage bill instead of the stimulus - especially considering that the stimulus package for individuals citizens has been dramatically reduced from his initial promise - he did fail to keep a promise, and I don't think its entirely because of Trump's underperformance, though I essentially do accept that Trump's role had a part to play
#19
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@Theweakeredge
I suppose I could accept that argument; however, I do believe that he should have focused on the minimum wage bill and dropped the stimulus; we have been promised this bill for a long time coming, I suppose its not fair to criticize the current president for the failures of the one before him - as Trump's inability to get the stimulus passed means that Biden has to. I'll concede that he is not necessarily in the wrong here, but I would argue that it would have been better for him to have passed the minimum wage bill instead of the stimulus - especially considering that the stimulus package for individuals citizens has been dramatically reduced from his initial promise - he did fail to keep a promise, and I don't think its entirely because of Trump's underperformance, though I essentially do accept that Trump's role had a part to play
Personally, I would still go for the stimulus package over the minimum wage increase. The only reason we can even pass this stimulus bill is because it falls under "Budget Reconciliation," meaning that it can't be filibustered. A straight 15 dollar minimum wage is going to be filibustered (meaning the Dems need 60 Senate votes), making it impossible to pass. Luckily though, Biden says that he wants to reform the filibuster, making it far more difficult to execute (abolishing the filibuster is impossible because of Dems like Manchin). Perhaps if he passes that, a 15 dollar minimum wage will become more viable.

stimulus package for individuals citizens has been dramatically reduced
Yep, their opening proposal was 1,400, I have no idea why the Dems didn't even try to push for 2,000.

In summary, I understand the yearning for a minimum wage increase, but I think we should primarily focus on what we can pass, if a bill can't pass, then it won't help nobody.
#20
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@Vader
I do admire Greece, they established the basis for Western Civilization and never caved to Islamic Turks, it's something that can be compared to the Irish Catholics who owned 19% of their land and got ethnically cleansed out of the six northern counties, the fighting spirit of small European nations is wonderful and something that connects people
#21
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@Theweakeredge
 and Liberals dislike that he's only moderate and not actually left wing.
so is it that or are you "just holding him accountable"
#22
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@Dr.Franklin
The Irish were largely ethnically cleansed by potatoes, or a lack thereof.


And then all those minority Europeans went to the New World and ethnically cleansed all those native types, who "owned " 100% of the land. ( If it is actually possible to own land?.....I would suggest that land ownership is only ever temporary)


And the Irish are and were the Irish....And I think what you are referring to was largely Irish Religious cleansing, by the Irish.


In a broader historical context...The U.K. Is a derivation of multiple, European and wider influences.

It's just that people such as yourself like to focus on recent History and attribute blame inaccurately and disproportionately.


After all the Romans are to blame for Catholicism...And Various Arabians are to blame for other religious variations thereof.


And Northern Ireland remains largely populated by the Irish, but nonetheless, nowadays influenced by more recent global migratory trends.
#23
ebuc
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@Theweakeredge
Biden { alterrative to four years of racist Trump and worse immorality and fundamental compassion etc } > Harris >
..............alternates {Hillary > Sanders > Warren } > Bill Clinton > Jimmy Carter { solar panels on white house } > LBJ { immoral war continued } > JFK { immoral war despite growing data corruption via ignoring truths }

Trumpet { worst of the worse on all counts fell short of war mongering, cause lucky of circumstances } > Pence
.........> Bush Junior { Iraq war } > Bush-1 { rasised taxes small war { as is case with most republican presidents despite promises not to } > Regan { removed solar panels on white house and raised tsxes dispite promisse not to }


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#24
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@ebuc
No -Sanders and Warren are infinitely better than Biden - Biden is a conservative - he's not as extreme as current-day conservatives (and I say extreme with due process) - Biden is not better than any other democratic candidate - he is better than Pence and Trump - that is as far as I will go there. 
#25
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@Theweakeredge
Sorry Wedge, I was not clear.

What I presented was meant as  historical ---from present to past--   semi-linage of what has led us to Biden as president, ---and not Trumpet---   not that Biden is better the the more recent democratic contenders.

So I agree with you that I would have preverred Hillary, Warren, Bernie over Trump, but the practical { moderate most likely to win } vote was Biden --years of experience---   and that is why he was chosen.

#26
Lemming
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@Theweakeredge
His support in recent days of banning assault weapons bothers me enough that if I were to vote again, I would vote for Trump instead of Jo Jorgensen.
#27
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@Lemming
That's odd considering Joe Biden has been against assault weapons and attacking the gun lobby for like 30 years.
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#28
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@Lemming
Why does it bother you? It shouldn't - do you want to go use an AK-47 to "hunt"? You don't need an AK-47 to hunt, you don't need assault weapons to defend yourself, unless your a highly trained operative, most people can't even use an assault weapon effectively, much less efficiently.
#29
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@Theweakeredge
Yes, but it wasn't 'certain that he'd try to ban assault weapons.
I also voted for third party rather than Trump for purely selfish reasons, of getting along with my family.

For my reasoning on guns in the United States, Online Debate: Gun Rights in the United States | Debate.org
Debate I intend to have with TheUnexaminedLife.
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#30
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@Lemming
Interesting argument - you've made several flaws - how is the government banning specifically assault weapons (something you do not need to hunt, and most do not have the training to actually defend themselves with) "disarming" the nation? Banning assault weapons and (I think) making laws where the government actually disband the manufacture of assault weapons for civilians period would reduce the use of assault weapons.

Then, your false equivalence regarding car accidents and chainsaws - you fail to account that whenever someone is killed by a gun they have the INTENT to kill with a gun, and they are much more easily able to kill WITH A GUN. You see, you can run from a chain saw, you can hide behind metal, hell, you can throw a heavy thing at the person carrying it, and they won't be able to dodge. If you tried any of those things, you are much more likely to be shot than you are stabbed or cut. 

Furthermore, people dying by cars is simply a truth by how many times people drive a day, times the amount of people who drive total - you have failed to present a representative total comparing the deaths of cars to the death by guns, based off of how many people use guns and how many times people use cars - actually factoring in context will massively shift the numbers (TLDR: people use cars waaay more than they use Guns, so of course there are more deaths via cars)

Your argument is not actually sufficient for much.