Quite simply - gender, in general, is a construct, like currency, but slips of money also do objectively exist. Similarly, gender identity is an inherent thing, whereas gender itself is a construct. How? A good question, there are inherent bits of gender that makeup someone's identity, and we can only really identify that with brain states and self-identification. In contrast, gender roles and things like that are constructed thrust ontop of a particular gender. Gender typically aligns with someone's sex; however, that isn't always the case, such as with Transgender people. A transgender woman's, though women's would be more accurate, the brain is more accurate to cis women than with a cis man. That is just an example - in contrast - men don't have to be inherently aggressive, etc.
How can gender be inherent and a construct at the same time?
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@Theweakeredge
The definition of gender has changed over the years... To suit human needs and aspirations relating to the gratification of reproductive urges, and the developing socially acceptable variations and methodologies thereof..
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@zedvictor4
In ways yes, in others, no
Constructs are inherent to a system.
Whether we are discussing gender roles or biological sex, part of the ambiguity of the situation is caused that it is more of a spectrum than a binary. One might have a "female" brain and a "male" body. Or one might be born with both sex organs. Or the external female sex organs but with male internal sex organs. That these cases are not the statistical norm is not in dispute. Whether this entirely natural consequence of our biology which is entirely out of our control is the issue. Should someone receive less bodily autonomy because they are a statistical anomaly of some kind? Careful that slope is slippery. Everyone is a statistical anomaly of some kind.
Sex is inherent, gender is not. You can change gender because it is your role and your identification, not what is under your underwear. Sex is inherent, Gender is a construct.
Sex is inherent, gender is not. You can change gender because it is your role and your identification, not what is under your underwear. Sex is inherent, Gender is a construct.
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@Intelligence_06
It's almost as if simply being alive is evidence that you've taken some actions to maintain your own life (at a minimum) and maintaining your own life requires some level of cooperation with other humans.
If a person has both sex organs or if they have secondary sex characteristics that contrast with the primary ones? What if their brain is wired biologically for a "feminine" role but has a biologically male body? In each case what is the individual's sex? Perhaps it is complicated enough for us to just take someone's word when they say they are a woman until some clearer metric becomes available.
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@Intelligence_06
This is misunderstanding what's going on - people do not "choose" to change their gender, they do not even change their gender, they realize that there gender identity is separate from what they were assigned at birth, that they are not "cis-gendered" the construct is the part that because you have penis you are cis-male, it is most of the time true, but not all of the time true. Hence why trans people exist.
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@secularmerlin
Okay... I'm curious who you're addressing here - You realize I do agree that trans people exist right and that we should trust them whenever they self-identify? Because you know your gender and sexual identity better than other people do. I agree, people should have the bodily autonomy in this instance of course.
Idk if this is an authentic enough source, but this source says gender can be changed. It is just that telling another person to change gender against will is not a good decision.
Gender is not fixed and can change over time.
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@Theweakeredge
Okay... I'm curious who you're addressing here - You realize I do agree that trans people exist right and that we should trust them whenever they self-identify? Because you know your gender and sexual identity better than other people do. I agree, people should have the bodily autonomy in this instance of course.
Then call it a rare case of agreement. It does happen sometimes that someone will support you arguments.
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@Theweakeredge
What you don't understand is what I explained in our debate.
Masculinity and Femininity are 100% inherent and never will change, how masculine/feminine a particular male or female is, is what isn't concrete.
No, they aren't. These are constructs, the flaw in your round was something I already pointed out. You know in our debate.
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@Theweakeredge
One day you'll realise it's true, until then you will never understand the answer to this thread's exact question (and neither will the conservatives who oppose you as neither side generally realises what they agree on, regarding this).
I mean.. as a "rational" madman, I would expect you to actually demonstrate claims, but have fun not doing that.
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@Theweakeredge
Demonstrate how? You mean demonstrate what masculinity and femininity are in all mammalian species due to hormones and chromosomes or do you mean demonstrate how this applies to politics?
The disagreement between the sides lies in two things:
- Conservatives generally believe that fundamentally men are meant to be masculine and women feminine vice versa.
- Liberals/Progressives are wanting legal enforcement, backing and recognition of males who are so feminine they feel that they are genuinely a woman in terms of their role in the social landscape and females who feel so masculine that they essentially are men. This is where the genuine disagreement lies much more than #1 because Conservatives and Right-Wing Libertarians tend to be willing to compromise a lot on #1 whereas #2 is the true cause of the debate happening at a government level.
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@Theweakeredge
If you were to find the highest percentage of aggressive humans, almost all of the top 1% are male and bottom 1% are female. Jordan Peterson asserts this and I'm by no means a right-winger but he's correct on this.
Similarly, if you were to get the most emotionally sensitive top vs bottom 1%, same thing again but the opposite way around.
Those two dynamics (aggression and emotional sensitivity) are the biggest differences between the genders. Any exception to this rule would be an extremely masculine female or vice versa.
You do realize that testosterone is not the only chemical in charge of being aggressive, correct? You are also aware that there such things as chemical imbalances, where the cis-male has less testosterone than cis-females do. All you have done is made an assertion, please actually link that assertion to your claim.
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@Theweakeredge
Males are not just aggressive due to higher testosterone, the Y chromosome plays a part as it makes them more recipient-friendly to the hormone. And I said already there are feminine men. They still have more testosterone than most women, the imbalance is never as extreme as you're suggesting.
A man who has had prostate cancer and had his balls removed, is only approaching being equal to extremely masculine women in testosterone, still more testosterone is in his body due to toher ways is gets produced and due to the Y chromosome making his body very recipient-friendly to it.
Demonstrate how? You mean demonstrate what masculinity and femininity are in all mammalian species due to hormones and chromosomes or do you mean demonstrate how this applies to politics?The disagreement between the sides lies in two things:
- Conservatives generally believe that fundamentally men are meant to be masculine and women feminine vice versa.
- Liberals/Progressives are wanting legal enforcement, backing and recognition of males who are so feminine they feel that they are genuinely a woman in terms of their role in the social landscape and females who feel so masculine that they essentially are men. This is where the genuine disagreement lies much more than #1 because Conservatives and Right-Wing Libertarians tend to be willing to compromise a lot on #1 whereas #2 is the true cause of the debate happening at a government level.
I realize not all case fit a mold but the only trans person I know personally is super pro Trump conservative. She is not only trans but identities as lesbian. It surprised me. My best guess is she is fairly comfortable in herself and choices as far as that all goes she's not worried about it, doesn't feel repressed or hindered. But as a gun owner, tax payer and prepper/bushcrafter she feels the government intrudes on her choices and freedoms.