How Does Jesus Expect To Get Away With Blatant Lies....

Author: Stephen

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#31
Stephen
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@Polytheist-Witch
Is there proof the secret conversations are relevent to the populous as a whole and not just a q and a session with an individual to their specific doubts.

It was obviously relevant to those Priests questioning Jesus about what he was teaching in secrecy.  And a Q&A session is what one can expect in a trial. 

But as to proving  if this particular Q&A session actually took place is another matter. 
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#32
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@fauxlaw
As usual, Stephen is ignoring the issues of language translation, [.........................................................]I, too, am a student of Greek

Nope.

I addressed the attempt to square this lie by blaming it on that good old favorite of the apologist -  translation..  And I will address it further. Here we are shown that Jesus met and spoke with others in secret and did things in secret. If secret doesn't mean what the ancient Greek lexicon says it means, then simply put these verses into context with what you believe to be their real intended meanings using your new interpretation and  definition of the word - secret.


Off you go.


John 7:8-10
 You go to the festival. I am not  going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".


John 19:38  "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away.

I notice that you have unblocked me . Why ever would you do that after  I was supposed you have treated you so, so bad ? #10  while forgetting that  your first ever post to me on this forum  was to infer that I was  scum.   What short memory you have. 

I eventually blocked you months later in simple retaliation and your insistence and persistence of posting to me personally, on my own threads although YOU had blocked ME..   So remember you are still on block on my threads . Now either forget the Ad Hominem and sarcasms and address the questions related to the thread . OR LEAVE!<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



#33
fauxlaw
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> Stephen: As Bringer has already told you, Greek is far more contextual than English. For example, English has 'love,' which can, in Greek be said in six different words signifying what, in English, must have variant adjectives to describe what in Greek is said in one word. 'Deeper content' is what you insist is 'secret.' In other words, what Jesus told Nicodemus, not because it needed to be said in the dead of night, but because, as usual, the typical person would be too confused by what was said. Nicodemus was a scriptural scholar, and Jesus knew it. Therefore, what Jesus revealed would be understood by Nicodemus, but would just confuse the man in the street. As it was, after Jesus finished his Bread of Life sermon [John 6], in which some deep meaning was discussed, we are told that many who had listened to him said, "This is an hard saying. Who can hear it?" [John 6: 60] They left, confused. Read to the end of the chapter for what Peter and others realized by the "hard saying:" Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Oh, Blasphemy!! 

You make the mistake of trying to work backwards from English to Greek. Start in the Greek Septuagint. Oh, yeah, you have to understand Greek, don't you? And don't try online Greek translation. Understand the Greek without benefit of someone else's English version because you have no idea whether they know of what they speak, or not, which is the root of your problem, anyway. Sorry, I don't have a better suggestion than to educate yourself. Can't give you a crash course, myself, and wouldn't want to. You have to want it, and, apparently, you do not.
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#34
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@fauxlaw


Again you are purposefully missing the point..

The topic here is not what Jesus was teaching  in secret, but the fact that he was teaching in secret.  




I don't have a better suggestion .
You don't have anything. 

But I have a suggestion for you.   I suggest you take this on.

Here we are shown that Jesus met and spoke with others in secret and did things in secret. If secret doesn't mean what the ancient Greek lexicon says it means, then simply put these verses into context with what you believe to be their real intended meanings using your new interpretation and  definition of the word - secret.


Off you go.


John 7:8-10
 You go to the festival. I am not  going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".


John 19:38  "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away".

 I will be displaying more lies spoken by Jesus  in later posts.


#35
fauxlaw
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>Stephen
You still don't get it, do you? The word "secret" is a mis-translation into English. But, off you go with you assumptions. They really do make people what they are.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble; it's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain.
#36
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@Stephen
Unfortunately, I don't think you quite have the proper evidence to conclude whether Jesus is a liar or not. First of all, Jesus evidently believes what he says to be true, regardless if that information is false. Furthermore, the bible has been edited and changed from the original translations. Furthermore, you could claim, "If I interpret what Jesus says here to mean this, and we assume that this version of the bible is de facto what Jesus said, and we assume that Jesus doesn't legitimately believe this particular thing, THEN Jesus is lying." I'm sorry but that stretches things a bit too far for my liking.
#37
FLRW
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You all should read the book by Joseph Atwell , Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus
Was Jesus the invention of a Roman emperor? The author of this ground-breaking book believes he was. "Caesar’s Messiah" reveals the key to a new and revolutionary understanding of the origin of Christianity, explaining what is the New Testament, who is the real Jesus, and how Christ's second coming already occurred. The clues leading to these startling conclusions are found in the writings of the first-century historian Flavius Josephus, whose "Wars of the Jews" is one of the only historical chronicles of this period. Closely comparing the work of Josephus with the New Testament Gospels, "Caesar’s Messiah" demonstrates that the Romans directed the writing of both. Their purpose: to offer a vision of a “peaceful Messiah” who would serve as an alternative to the revolutionary leaders who were rocking first-century Israel and threatening Rome. Similarly, "Caesar’s Messiah" will rock our understanding of Christian history as it reveals that Jesus was a fictional character portrayed in four Gospels written not by Christians but Romans. 


#38
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@FLRW
For fiction, I prefer Monty Python's "The Life of Brian"
#39
BrotherDThomas
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FAUXLAW,

FAUXLAW’S MISERABLE EMBARRASSMENT ONCE AGAIN IN POST QUOTE #28:  “ As usual, Stephen is ignoring the issues of language translation, as Bringerofrain has adequately and correctly told us. I, too, am a student of Greek, and can confirm the Bringer's contextual argument is spot on, and Stephen is completely dismissing it, to his laughable credit.”

Any translation nonetheless has to be inspired by Jesus the Christ you outright Biblical fool! Therefore, it matters not of any version of any translation as shown at this time within the scriptures, including Greek translations, because any translation is the true word of Jesus, get it Bible fool? The end results of all scriptures remains the true words of Jesus the Christ as explicitly shown in the passage below, that is, if you do not want to call Jesus a LIAR in this respect which is blaspheme and the Unpardonable Sin!

“And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13)

Fauxlaw, do you understand the passage above relative to you being made the complete Bible fool again relative to your sophomoric translation statements that go directly against Jesus the Christ?  Or, should I get my neighbors 2nd grader come here and explain it to you?

Furthermore, we can only wonder in what part of Greek you are a student of, whereas, do you enter the back door of "something" before you study Greek? 


NEXT COMPLETE BIBLE FOOL EQUAL TO FAUXLAW  WILL BE …?




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#40
BrotherDThomas
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FAUXLAW:

YOUR  QUOTE TO STEPHEN THAT IS TRULY LAUGHABLE:  " ...  and Stephen is completely dismissing it, to his laughable credit.”

Subsequent to easily BBQing you in my post #39 above, what is truly laughable at your expense is the FACT that you continually run away from biblical axioms that I have posed to you, where one of many on record is included in the following link:   

Seriously, how can you see your computer screen with all of the "chicken feathers" piled around it? Can you explain this obvious fact?  You, along with the equally Bible fool ethang5 is represented by the following example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI7ni7zL8qU

I can only surmise that in allowing yourself to be truly ignorant of the Bible as explicitly shown by me and others, that this fact spills over into your alleged writing of the Constitution as well because habits in this vein are hard to get rid of as you have shown within this forum. LOL!
. 
Now, embarrassingly go back into hiding from me AGAIN in front of the membership to lick your wounds because the true words of Jesus and I completely OWN YOU and your faith with ease!

NEXT?



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#41
Deb-8-a-bull
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I appears to me that the Jesus bloke was some kind of like, gambit.
He got tricked into believing he was a son of the god thing. 
As it is ALLLLLLLLLLLLL about ( Getting a Group up and running ) as its a strict  F P B ( For Profit Business ),   
10cents from each player. 
So someone like the Peter fella was the ( O M ) Original Maker upperer.
Jesus dies and the group gathers more momentum. 
Chugga chugga chugga.... 

Then it SPLINTERS. 
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#42
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@fauxlaw
You still don't get it, do you? The word "secret" is a mis-translation into English.

Then is all you have to do is correct the "mistranslation" of the biblical word - secret - for us all, don't you?  

It should be no problem to correct and interpret the word - secret - in these " god breathed" scriptures and in these biblical verses below in particular. Especially for a man that brags of being a student of ancient Greek language .#28 





Now. For the third time 


Here we are shown that Jesus met and spoke with others in secret and did things in secret. If secret doesn't mean what the ancient Greek lexicon says it means, then simply put these verses into context with what you believe to be their real intended meanings using your new interpretation and  definition of the word - secret.

Off you go.


John 7:8-10
 You go to the festival. I am not  going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".


John 19:38  "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away".


Topic's author
#43
Stephen
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@BrotherDThomas
FAUXLAW,


Any translation nonetheless has to be inspired by Jesus the Christ you outright Biblical fool! Therefore, it matters not of any version of any translation as shown at this time within the scriptures, including Greek translations, because any translation is the true word of Jesus, get it Bible fool? The end results of all scriptures remains the true words of Jesus the Christ as explicitly shown in the passage below, that is, if you do not want to call Jesus a LIAR in this respect which is blaspheme and the Unpardonable Sin!

“And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13)

Well you beat me to it there Brother. I was saving that particular BIBLICAL point for the  later.  
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#44
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@Theweakeredge
Unfortunately, I don't think you quite have the proper evidence to conclude whether Jesus is a liar or not.

Isn't the holy bible enough evidence, for you? 

When the bible says Jesus said " I said nothing in secret" John 18: 19-21.  and the bible also says:

John 7:8-10
 You go to the festival. I am not  going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".

AND

John 19:38  "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away,.....

[A] .... tell me, is Jesus lying? Is  the bible lying?  Do the verses contradict one another?  Have the scriptures been totally mistranslated? Or have the gospel authors simply put words into the mouth of the Christ? 

[B] What does the words -  not publicly but in secret -  mean to you in those verses?


First of all, Jesus evidently believes what he says to be true,

I agree but  this doesn't alter those verses and has no baring on the facts. Jesus believed he was the rightful king but the Jews who were there at the time didn't believe him. this is not to mention his friends and family thought he was mad.  I mean com'on! The holy  mother of the son of god surely should know her own son, shouldn't she. 


 Furthermore, the bible has been edited and changed from the original translations.

Ok. so the holy scriptures are totally unreliable then , are they?


Furthermore, you could claim,
"If I interpret what Jesus says here to mean this, and we assume that this version of the bible is de facto what Jesus said, and we assume that Jesus doesn't legitimately believe this particular thing, THEN Jesus is lying." I'm sorry but that stretches things a bit too far for my liking.

Well you are the one injecting conjecture and not me. I have put verses, holy bible verses,  side by side which proves Jesus lied. Remember.  I haven't had to interpret anything, you are the one saying - ""If I interpret what Jesus says" ........
.......And that is why I will be interested in you response [ A] & [B] above.
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#45
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@Deb-8-a-bull
He got tricked into believing he was a son of the god thing.

And I believe that you are not too far off the mark with that comment, Deb. 
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#46
Stephen
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Another Lie.

Jesus' promised his followers that they would live to see his return .  None have and he didn't.

“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.
 

Jesus then goes further telling them which “signs”  to look out for that indicate  return of "the son of man" is near but this time including the whole “generation” and ending again with:

“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32.

Did he return. No. 

 What's more, we can read further in Mathew(who else) that Jesus adds to his prediction by telling his disciples that he would return even before they had the time to spread the word to all the cities of Israel,  of which there were less than 80 cities at the time of his ministry:

Matthew 10:23  " When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes".
Well, the word has spread throughout Israel and  all around the world  now, hasn't it?  And is there a single Jew in Israel that hasn't heard of the Jew Jesus known as the Christ?


"those standing here" <<  should not be forgotten . Even if we were to allow 50 years for a "generation" Jesus still failed to appear.







#47
Theweakeredge
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@Stephen
You realize that was the entire point right? That the bible is to inaccurate in any regard to try to make comprehensible assessments over a figure with such vague speech's intentions. Can we conclude if that person if immoral or hypocritical? Sure, but intentions require much more evidence to ascertain. 
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#48
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@Theweakeredge

You realize that was the entire point right? That the bible is to inaccurate in any regard to try to make comprehensible assessments over a figure with such vague speech's intentions.  

The bible also tell us that every word of god is "flawless", doesn't it? 

Here >>>>>  “EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5). 

There you are. So the bible either contradicts you, or you are contradicting the bible, which is it?



You realize that was the entire point right?

What was?

And you didn't address a single question I put to you at post #44.  Why?

  And  what is it with Christians that they respond by asking questions of there own in response to a question put to them? 



Here you. I will give you t benefit of the doubt and believe that you missed them.


When the bible says Jesus said " I said nothing in secret" John 18: 19-21.  and the bible also says:

John 7:8-10
 You go to the festival. I am not  going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".

AND

John 19:38  "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away,.....

[A] .... tell me, is Jesus lying? Is  the bible lying?  Do the verses contradict one another?  Have the scriptures been totally mistranslated? Or have the gospel authors simply put words into the mouth of the Christ? 

[B] What does the words -  not publicly but in secret -  mean to you in those verses?


, you could claim,
"If I interpret what Jesus says here to mean this, and we assume that this version of the bible is de facto what Jesus said, and we assume that Jesus doesn't legitimately believe this particular thing, THEN Jesus is lying." I'm sorry but that stretches things a bit too far for my liking.

Well you are the one injecting conjecture and not me. I have put verses, holy bible verses,  side by side which proves Jesus lied. Remember.  I haven't had to interpret anything, you are the one saying - ""If I interpret what Jesus says" ........
.......And that is why I will be interested in you response [ A] & [B] above.

#49
Theweakeredge
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@Stephen
You do know I'm an atheist right? I don't believe in the bible or Jesus. 
#50
FLRW
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@Theweakeredge

Yes, I'm sure Stephen knows that you are intelligent.
#51
fauxlaw
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> Stephen

Off you go.
And now for the third time, you have invited my departure, but you keep calling me back. Confused, Stephen? Typical state of mind. So, embrace your limitations; they're yours.
#52
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@FLRW
" And  what is it with Christians that they respond by asking questions of there own in response to a question put to them? "

From the post right above mine

#53
BrotherDThomas
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@ethang5
@Stephen
@Tradesecret
@fauxlaw
@Bringerofrain



Stephen, my Atheist cohort in spreading Jesus' true words,

YOUR QUOTE: "Well you beat me to it there Brother. I was saving that particular BIBLICAL point for the  later. "

Jesus and I are sorry that we pulled the rug out from you, but, we both believe that anyone as Bible stupid as FAUXLAW, bringeroftherain, et al, need to be put in their rightful place as ignorant Bible fools ASAP!  You still can add this proposition once again as the final candle upon the proverbial cake!  It is beyond reason how FAUXLAW can remain upon this forum with his outright Devil Speak that goes directly against the true scriptures, and where he doesn't  have the wherewithal to understand in how embarrassing he is in the eyes of Jesus by basically calling Him a LIAR! (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

Here I thought the ever so dumbfounded of the Bible Tradesecret and ethang5 were the top contenders of being #1 and #2 in this respect, but now fauxlaw has thrown his hat into the ring to take over these positions!  LOL

On a side note, isn't it wonderful that we don't have the runaway from the main topic posts of ethang5 within this prestigious forum at this time?  What a breath of fresh air! Of note once again, in prayer with Jesus the other night He informed me of a detrimental position to take on ethang5 upon his uneventful return, stay tuned.


.



#54
fauxlaw
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@BrotherDThomas
Having thus, in your words, "put me in my place," that you continue to address me implies that I do not remain in place. Sorry, but my free will is not subservient to yours. Just the way it is, bro. Your cross to bear. Your limitation. As it is yours, and not mine, milk it. bro.
#55
Bringerofrain
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@BrotherDThomas
Lithium doesn't work, if you don't take it
#56
BrotherDThomas
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@fauxlaw



FAUXLAW, the runaway from biblical axioms, and the contender in being the #1 Bible ignorant fool upon this forum,

YOUR QUOTE OF ADMITTINGLY THROWING IN THE TOWEL OF DEFEAT, THANK YOU: "Having thus, in your words, "put me in my place," that you continue to address me implies that I do not remain in place. Sorry, but my free will is not subservient to yours. Just the way it is, bro. Your cross to bear. Your limitation. As it is yours, and not mine, milk it. bro."

Stupid and ignorant of the Bible like you do not know that they are stupid and ignorant of the Bible until a member like me shows you to be, get it Bible fool? I agree with your convoluted notion that you are still not in your place of being the Bible fool, which only shows that you admit same!  Priceless recognition on your part in admitting that YOU ARE a biblical fool!  And, you are an alleged writer? LOL!!!

Furthermore, you show this forum your continued Biblical ignorance in actually stating, even as an inept pseudo-christian, that you have free will!  NOT!  Read your JUDEO-Christian Bible, H-E-L-L-O, anybody home today?  If you find your big boy pants, I will discuss this biblical axiom with you, but why add more biblical ignorance on your as it is at this time, huh?

The only cross that I bear in this prestigious forum, that you have no business in being in as I have shown, is showing this forum in what a blatant dumbfounded pseudo-christian that you are, like when you are running away from the FACT that I showed you in how wrong you were on bringing forth Greek translations, of which in essence you called Jesus a LIAR relative to 1 Thessalonians 2:13.  BLASPHEME!

Run FAUXLAW, run away from your Bible stupidity in front of the membership as shown in the link below!


What I will continue to show at your laughable expense, is that your priceless Bible stupidity has no bounds!


NEXT BIBLE IGNORANT FOOL, AS EASILY SHOWN, EQUAL TO FAUXLAW WILL BE ...?


.



 


#57
BrotherDThomas
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@Tradesecret
@fauxlaw
@Bringerofrain


Bringeroftherain,

YOUR CHILDLIKE QUOTE IRRELATIVE TO THE TOPIC AT HAND:  "Lithium doesn't work, if you don't take it"

As we expected, you bring forth an inept embarrassing and simpleminded non relative to the topic at hand quote. This only shows that you are truly not ready for this forum, but maybe you will be more comfortable in a "Children's Religion Forum" at your laughable expense, understood?

You still haven't answered if you are a pseudo-christian at best, or an atheist, or?  Are you that embarrassed to tell us your true modus operandi? LOL!

Relative to your misconception of Greek translations relative to Jesus' true words in calling Him a LIAR, you are still running away from me showing you to be completely wrong  in this respect as shown in the links below. Scared to be made the continued Bible fool?

Did you try and learn, at your expense once again, in how to RUN AWAY from biblical axioms from FAUXLAW, where he learned from the equally Bible ignorant Tradesecret and ethang5 school of "How to RUN AWAY from biblical truths and "try" and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath?"


NEXT?


.



#58
Bringerofrain
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@BrotherDThomas
I believe in God. I believe in him as described in the tradition of hermeticism. I am the same type of Christian as Dion Fortune. The new testament was written by people who were trying to pass on the wisdom of Hermes trismagistus, but passed on his wisdom in parables so that those with ears will hear, but that your average christian would be blind to the secret teachings of the bible. 



#59
Bringerofrain
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Pseudo christian I guess you would call it
#60
fauxlaw
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@Bringerofrain
Though new to the site (welcome, by the way), you see that BroT is a  broken little man who is best ignored, Bhutto on occasion it’s fun to listen to him pound his table.