What I realized

Author: Tarik

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#271
ethang5
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@3RU7AL
CONCEPTS =/= OBJECTS
I know and did not say they were.

You have no way of verifying my statement.
This makes it INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM OPINION.
The statement is still either true or false. Our "knowing" has no bearing on reality. That is one of the uses of logic, to find out what is real even when we cannot perceive it. 
#272
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@ethang5
The statement is still either true or false. Our "knowing" has no bearing on reality. That is one of the uses of logic, to find out what is real even when we cannot perceive it. 
UNVERIFIABLE "FACT" IS INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM OPINION.
#273
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@3RU7AL
UNVERIFIABLE "FACT" IS INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM OPINION.
In the dark red is indistinguishable from blue, but that doesn't make red blue, or not red. Our ability to distinguish does not affect reality. This is a simple truism that you should be able to grasp easily.
#274
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@ethang5
Is the following statement "fact" or "opinion"?

"Your DebateArt.com user-icon is 2 centimeters square on my computer screen."
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#275
Tarik
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@zedvictor4
No....Facts and opinions are both internal data constructs, which we make in response to observations of external reality. When sensory mechanisms detect an external stimulus, all processes are internal....Stuff doesn't float around out there, with fact and opinion stickers attached.
First, I view data along the lines of facts, so no opinions isn’t data. Second we don’t make facts they’re above and beyond us (your giving humans way too much credit there).

Yep it's an internal data and systems management unit or device....Organic rather than mechanical.
You’re sure that’s the case for everybody’s brain?
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#276
Tarik
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@3RU7AL
Do you have a rebuttal to my last point?
#277
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@3RU7AL
Is the following statement "fact" or "opinion"?
"Your DebateArt.com user-icon is 2 centimeters square on my computer screen."
You still aren't getting it. Never mind, some people aren't intellectually equiped to get it.
#278
zedvictor4
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@Tarik
1.  No human, no brain, no fact....Only stuff

2. Unless you know differently.
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#279
Tarik
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@zedvictor4
Prove it and yes I do.
#280
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@Tarik
"Prove it" ......Ask a dead man.

And Typical Tarik...."And yes I do"...But no explanation.

So who is different to "everybody" else.....And how does their data and systems management work?
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#281
Tarik
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@zedvictor4
Ask a dead man.
The dead man is dead, that’s a fact for you.

And Typical Tarik...."And yes I do"...But no explanation.
Explanation is on your part, what data and systems could someone with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis manage?
#282
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@ethang5
Is the following statement "fact" or "opinion"?

"Your DebateArt.com user-icon is 2 centimeters square on my computer screen."
(IFF) you can't verify a claim (THEN) that claim CANNOT be considered a FACT.
#283
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@Tarik
Not true, facts existed before knowledge and opinions have nothing to do with knowledge,
BINGO.
#284
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@Tarik
First, I view data along the lines of facts,
So, in your ONTOLOGY, data and facts are the same thing?

so no opinions isn’t data.
You could have mentioned this earlier.

Second we don’t make facts they’re above and beyond us (your giving humans way too much credit there).
How do you know which claims are FACTUAL and which are merely SPECULATIVE OPINIONS?

You’re sure that’s the case for everybody’s brain?
What's your hypothesis?
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#285
Tarik
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@3RU7AL
That wasn’t for you, what’s your retort to this argument?

Well whoever or whatever created it, proves that an objective reality is beyond what your human eye can see.

#286
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@Tarik
“Well whoever or whatever created it, proves that an objective reality is beyond what your human eye can see.”
NOUMENON IS A LOGICAL-NECESSITY.
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#287
Tarik
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@3RU7AL
Therefore it’s objective.
#288
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@Tarik
Therefore it’s objective.
AND UNDETECTABLE AND UNKNOWABLE.
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#289
Tarik
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@3RU7AL
So what? That’s not always the case with objective facts.
#290
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@Tarik

1. Well it was a hypothetical situation, so therefore not factual....


2. If they are alive systems are still functioning.

And degenerative disorders are degenerative disorders....That's a hard fact for the sufferer.....And a ridiculously poor explanation.


You seem to have run out of steam, trying to stretch this argument out.
#291
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@Tarik
Is the following statement "fact" or "opinion"?

"Your DebateArt.com user-icon is 2 centimeters square on my computer screen."
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#292
Tarik
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@zedvictor4
Well it was a hypothetical situation, so therefore not factual....
... Doesn’t change a thing dead men are dead that’s still a fact.

If they are alive systems are still functioning.
Them being alive isn’t the narrative, the narrative is them managing data, so pretell the data they’re able to manage, they can hardly manage themselves.

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#293
Tarik
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@3RU7AL
Is the following statement "fact" or "opinion"?

"Your DebateArt.com user-icon is 2 centimeters square on my computer screen."
What’s the point of asking me this, how does this address my argument?

#294
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@Tarik
Is the following statement "fact" or "opinion"?

"Your DebateArt.com user-icon is 2 centimeters square on my computer screen."
What’s the point of asking me this, how does this address my argument?
I'm trying to figure out how you distinguish FACT from OPINION.
#295
zedvictor4
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@Tarik
Not a dead man's fact though.

If a system is functioning it's functioning..... Maybe not at 100% capacity......And M.N.D. Primarily affect muscular function anyway, leaving data management fairly intact.

It's a poor argument Tarik.
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#296
Tarik
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@3RU7AL
How do you distinguish it? Because I agree with the dictionary.

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#297
Tarik
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@zedvictor4
Not a dead man's fact though.
Facts aren’t property no one owns facts, not dead men not anybody.

If a system is functioning it's functioning..... Maybe not at 100% capacity......And M.N.D. Primarily affect muscular function anyway, leaving data management fairly intact.

What data are you managing? It’s not an argument it’s a question zedvictor4.
#298
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@Tarik
How do you distinguish it? Because I agree with the dictionary.
There is no dictionary that supports your assertion that FACTS "existed" before humans.

Is the following statement "fact" or "opinion"?

"Your DebateArt.com user-icon is 2 centimeters square on my computer screen."
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#299
Tarik
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@3RU7AL
There is no dictionary that supports your assertion that FACTS "existed" before humans.
Correction there’s no dictionary that mentions humans in the definition of fact.

#300
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@Tarik
Correction there’s no dictionary that mentions humans in the definition of fact.
A HUMAN MIND IS IMPLICIT IN THE DEFINTION.

fact
  (făkt)
n.
1. Knowledge [requires a human mind] or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.

2.
a. Something demonstrated [requires a human mind] to exist or known [requires a human mind] to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
b. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
c. Something believed [requires a human mind] to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.

3. A thing that has been done, especially a crime [requires a human mind]: an accessory before the fact.

4. Law A conclusion drawn by a judge [requires a human mind] or jury [requires a human mind] from the evidence in a case: a finding of fact.  [**]