Crimes Mafia - DP2

Author: Bullish

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whiteflame
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@drafterman
I didn't say anything about you looking scummy. Defensive?
Misread a previous post. And yeah, hinging your claim on someone else's claim is a little different. Don't understand why you're doing it, and it stands to me as an odd choice. Not sure why you're hinging your claim on his.
whiteflame
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Frankly, if you feel so strongly that a push for Lunatic's claim is warranted but mine is not, I haven't seen a good reason for it anywhere beyond what is at best a weak statement about "corruption" not fitting as a crime, which doesn't seem particularly persuasive to me. Why are you pushing so hard on him, specifically, when all you have is a technicality about a character claim, especially when we don't have any more information about other roles? Also, where was this in the last DP?
drafterman
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@whiteflame
And I'll happily explain why - once he claims.

It's simple, really: I will readily and fully claim after Lunatic full claims. If my claim is the result you want, then getting Lunatic to claim first should be your course of action. If you don't pressure him for a claim, then you must not really want my claim.

And I repeat: that is the only way I am claiming. No amount of votes for me will get me to claim before Lunatic. I am shutting down, conclusively, that path. Voting me will do nothing. If you desire my claim, voting me is not going to get you it. I will absolutely take my claim to the grave if Lunatic doesn't claim.

Now, you say you have some vague sense of distrust over this and on that alone are being contrary. You don't trust me so you're going to do the opposite of what I'm saying. Nice. Well, get over it. What's the fear? That I'm third party whos win-con is: "Get lunatic to claim first?" You have no objective reason to prefer my claim over Lunatic's and even if you do prefer my claim, I've explained how to get it and how not to get it.

So what's the most rational course of action for you?
drafterman
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@whiteflame
Frankly, if you feel so strongly that a push for Lunatic's claim is warranted but mine is not, I haven't seen a good reason for it anywhere beyond what is at best a weak statement about "corruption" not fitting as a crime, which doesn't seem particularly persuasive to me
Lunatic claiming a non-crime where all Town are crimes isn't a weak reason. It's a strong reason. He's lying about his character. Why real question isn't why that concerns me but why it doesn't concern you.

Why are you pushing so hard on him, specifically, when all you have is a technicality about a character claim, especially when we don't have any more information about other roles? Also, where was this in the last DP?
Get his full claim and I'll tell you.
drafterman
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The real question*
Danielle
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Good morning!!! And I do mean good morning since GA Republicans are getting buried <3 
Speedrace
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@Lunatic
Clarify your crime please
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@Danielle
Good morning!!! And I do mean good morning since GA Republicans are getting buried <3 
We love to see it
Speedrace
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VTL Drafterman

Besides the behavioral stuff, the fact that Drafter said he has a role that mafia can have means mafia had ALL the incentive in the world to kill him because the roles fitting that description are all very powerful for town. Given the fact that he didn't die, either scum didn't bother reading the DP/are bad players, or drafter himself is scum
Danielle
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@Lunatic
I only remember playing the last two games with drafter where he refused to claim in both and was scum in both. It's true he wasn't concerned with "moving the game along" in those games either, but who WAS concerned with moving the game along last DP? I will have to go back and check.

Apparently drafter was in MCU Mafia so I can go back and look for his "town meta," but he's the kind of player who (intentionally) posts very one-note so he'll be hard to read. I'm looking for logic slips. Are you looking for a claim and will his claim swing you toward his affiliation one way or the other? 
Danielle
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@drafterman
Then you must not really want my claim then. If you really want my claim, I've told you how to get it.

It sounds like you are very upset that people do not want to join your vote.

If I may, here is some constructive criticism for how you can get town to join you:



  • Don't be so argumentative - you'll alienate the people you're arguing with and everyone else will just tune you out;
  • Don't be so defensive - you're not being attacked nearly as much as you think you are and it puts focus on you, taking it away from other people;
  • Stop giving a shit about being right - this is a game where a it's a job of a significant part of the player base to undermine you. Stop taking everything as a personal insult and move on.
  • Find common ground - If you want scum lynched you need help from other people. So instead of acting like a person that has it all figured out and everyone should just follow your infallible lead, act like a person that needs help from other people. Because you do and you can't win without it.
  • Remember that it is a team game - You're on a team, part of an affiliation. You win as a team. You lose as a team. Coming out and saying nothing was your fault and it was everyone else is being a poor team member and is poor sportsmanship.

drafterman
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@Speedrace
Besides the behavioral stuff, the fact that Drafter said he has a role that mafia can have means mafia had ALL the incentive in the world to kill him because the roles fitting that description are all very powerful for town. Given the fact that he didn't die, either scum didn't bother reading the DP/are bad players, or drafter himself is scum
Lol, my role is not very powerful for town.

Speedrace
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@drafterman
Lol, my role is not very powerful for town.
Because you're such a credible source
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@Danielle
If I may, here is some constructive criticism for how you can get town to join you:

  • Don't be so argumentative - you'll alienate the people you're arguing with and everyone else will just tune you out;
  • Don't be so defensive - you're not being attacked nearly as much as you think you are and it puts focus on you, taking it away from other people;
  • Stop giving a shit about being right - this is a game where a it's a job of a significant part of the player base to undermine you. Stop taking everything as a personal insult and move on.
  • Find common ground - If you want scum lynched you need help from other people. So instead of acting like a person that has it all figured out and everyone should just follow your infallible lead, act like a person that needs help from other people. Because you do and you can't win without it.
  • Remember that it is a team game - You're on a team, part of an affiliation. You win as a team. You lose as a team. Coming out and saying nothing was your fault and it was everyone else is being a poor team member and is poor sportsmanship.
Uno reverse card, I see. Nice move.
drafterman
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@Speedrace
On what my role is? Yeah, I would be.
Vader
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Drafter is lying. I gave Lunatic weed
VTL Drafter
Speedrace
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@Vader
Drafter is lying. I gave Lunatic weed
?
Vader
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@Lunatic
You're welcome for the weed
Speedrace
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@drafterman
On what my role is? Yeah, I would be.
On your affiliation
drafterman
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@Danielle
BTW, the difference here is I don't think people are assholes or idiots for not agreeing with me and if Town loses I'm not about to say it was absolutely everyone else's fault except my own.

I could be wrong here and that mistake might hurt Town. That's part of playing the game. If I make a mistake that ends up costing Town, I'll own it.
whiteflame
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@drafterman
Dude, I'm not going to vote for him on the basis that you're actively hiding information that you will suddenly choose to reveal if he claims. I'm not sure what the aim of all this is, but if there's information you could be giving me to better support a vote for Lunatic, do it. I'm not going to take "I'll tell you later" as an excuse to vote for someone else, nor do I think your character analysis does much to push me in that direction (we don't have any other character claims beyond his and mine, so we have very few to compare with, and it's not just corruption, but specifically BRIBERY that's the criminal offense). Frankly, I don't know why you'd be willing to do this if you're scum, but if you're so willing to be lynched before saying anything about your character or role, that seems at least anti-town to me.
drafterman
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@Speedrace
So you're saying that I only know my affiliation, not my role? That makes no sense.
Speedrace
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UNVOTE to allow offlines to get on
Danielle
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@Speedrace
VTL Drafterman

Besides the behavioral stuff, the fact that Drafter said he has a role that mafia can have means mafia had ALL the incentive in the world to kill him because the roles fitting that description are all very powerful for town. Given the fact that he didn't die, either scum didn't bother reading the DP/are bad players, or drafter himself is scum


I don't see anything behavioral that sticks out about drafter, but that is a spot-on point about not killing him. His role to me seems very obvious so the fact that whiteflame and Lunatic keep pushing to get his claim is very weird to me. That's literally why I just asked Lunatic if having drafter's claim will change his mind on drafter's affiliation because I'm pretty sure anyone with a modicum of intelligence can figure out what his claim is. It's like one of two things as far as I can tell. 

Speedrace
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@drafterman
So you're saying that I only know my affiliation, not my role? That makes no sense.
I'm saying your arguments about your role assume you're telling the truth about your affiliation
Vader
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@Speedrace
Do I need to explain myself. It should be obvious what my role is. I can confirm I gave Lunatic the weed so he is not lying
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@Vader
Do I need to explain myself. It should be obvious what my role is. I can confirm I gave Lunatic the weed so he is not lying
Oh lol. Does this "giving weed" somehow town-confirm people?
Danielle
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@drafterman
Lol, my role is not very powerful for town.



Ok then nvm I misunderstood what I thought your claim was. Now I want your claim and am perfectly willing to lynch you to get it if you insist. Especially if it's not that useful. 
drafterman
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@whiteflame
Dude, I'm not going to vote for him on the basis that you're actively hiding information that you will suddenly choose to reveal if he claims. I'm not sure what the aim of all this is, but if there's information you could be giving me to better support a vote for Lunatic, do it.
If you want to know the aim of all of this is, pressure Lunatic. I currently do not have any additional information that could be used to support a vote on Lunatic.

I'm not going to take "I'll tell you later" as an excuse to vote for someone else, nor do I think your character analysis does much to push me in that direction (we don't have any other character claims beyond his and mine, so we have very few to compare with, and it's not just corruption, but specifically BRIBERY that's the criminal offense).
Right, but he didn't claim bribery, he claimed corruption. Bribery is a crime. Corruption is just a generic colloquialism.

Frankly, I don't know why you'd be willing to do this if you're scum, but if you're so willing to be lynched before saying anything about your character or role, that seems at least anti-town to me.
Maybe it is. But if you don't think I'm scum then it's also anti-town to be voting me.
Vader
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@Lunatic
@Speedrace
No. I don't know what "weed" is, I was never told, but it symbolizes a PR

@Luna
Can you please tell me what role the weed was