The Occult

It's called static electricity.  Research has shown that as a word or answer began to form, the eye movements increased, indicating that participants brains were calculating and predicting potential answers and sending their eyes to potential next letters, thus subconsciously guiding their hands to glide the planchettes to them. The pair on the planchette subconsciously take turns taking control as their brains feel more confident tin their choices.

I have no idea what you're talking about, I have no knowledge of an UFO documentation, because no valid documentation exists.

Give your sources or let the claim be unproven

, again, I have never heard of whatever you're talking about. Now, people have sent in doctored videos claiming that the sources are offical, and the fraud has always been discovered false

but again, aliens would not be "unnatural", we have no current evidence of intelligent et life, but it wouldn't be unnatural if it did exist.

"These expectations present a dilemma. If an image of a UFO is too clear it is likely to be read as obviously fake, but if it’s too blurry it could be anything."

"A superficial reading of the Navy UFO footage would likely lead to the latter evaluation. But given the nature of the footage (it is infrared, not technically photographic, so establishes the heat signature of the objects depicted), and the institutional context (the Pentagon is not known for producing and distributing fake UFO videos), it’s hard to avoid concluding the footage shows genuine physical anomalies. If that’s the case, it would be worthy of serious scientific and military attention, both of which currently seem absent."

Are you saying that there is no evil? Something like terrorist acts against unknown people being evil is subjective?

I'm assuming you're referring to aliens from other planets.  How would you even know if they came from other planets?

Even if they are, it's not really what they would be that is unnatural, but what they're able to do.

Your explanations are possible in that anything theoretically is possible. One, or both of us may be experiments in a lab, and we're dreaming

all of this.

No. So let me ask you,  when you pick up a coin with your fingernails, explain to me how you accomplish this. I don't think you can defy gravity, so I doubt you can lift a coin with your fingernail with a soft gentle touch on the very top of the coin.

I realized afterwards that the way I put it may cause confusion. The other person (in front of you) is on your team. Not the opponent

It sure doesn't look like you're pursuing the questioning. It looks like you were stating you didn't know much about him, therefore not much to talk about.

Was there a question you wanted me to answer?

There's tons of documentation for this subject, the one above has some pretty good information to get your foot in the door. The problem... is that if it's a phenomenon trying to be covered up or suppressed then there's going to be some controversy surrounding it. The bottom line is that there is plenty of evidence. Watch this whole documentary without the assumption people are nuts and or lying. Since you have an issue with testimonies you're probably going to fluff off most of the video but at some point you should consider most decent people just want to tell the truth. 

When have you looked? what have you done to evaluate the subject? there's tons of information and sources you could investigate, then again you're distaste for other witnesses will make this very hard to accept. However, this goes beyond just people's testimonies of actually witnessing UFO's. 

Our US air force is in control of most of the events/sightings as they are the source that has the most observation of what comes in contact within our atmosphere and they are the same source that has the say whether or not it is disclosed. But there are those who have had access to this information who have come forward. Beyond that, it's just your average Joe who may see something in the air, maybe report it and then they are most likely mocked and told they are "frauds". Sure, there's going to be some idiot that develops a fakery here and there but you should look much more into it. 

This is where it seems you don't know what you're talking about. You don't even know there is credible documented evidence that shows they might exist, then you claim they are all false lol. Wow. 

This I agree with. Although I certainly believe in spiritual entities, which are spirit beings...."aliens" are beings still within the physical universe. Just in different parts of our universe. 

the government provided some of the videos we're talking about. Cover up? Uh huh.

Again, testimony is quite fradulent without other evidence

You have failed to convince me here

Surprise surprise, whenever someone provided the evidence, as I already addressed, and again, it doesn't seem to support what others think, the entire portions of it that make it "alien like" are all details that can't even be confirmed, so.... that's a dead end until further research is developed, and I agree with the guy in the article there should be more scientific testing there, but simply yelling, "ITS AN ALIEN ITS AN ALIEN!!"

I require more evidence to declare it true.

whenever it comes to things they want to be true, conformation bias and all that.

, if you had actual arguments here

instead you assume your conclusions to be true, and laugh off anyone who disagrees,

its quite common in your little tactics

and your framing has become apparantly deliberately manipulative, cutting out large swaths of context in order to make something seem worse than it is, that's pretty suspect to me.

One, however stood out: Lt. Col. Philip Corso, who authored a book titled The Day After Roswell. Here is what the noted UFO investigator Stanton Friedman had to say in his review of that book:

The first part of the book, with the exception of the strange Ft. Riley, Kansas warehouse scene with an alien body being observed by Corso on July 6, seems to have nothing to do with him. He admits he wasn’t involved at all in the recovery, investigation, or evaluation of what happened near Roswell. It is almost certainly based on the many Roswell books already published by Randle and Schmitt, Moore and Berlitz, and Don Berliner and myself, but with no attempt to validate or critically evaluate anything and no credits being given.

In the second half of the book Corso seems to be taking credit for the single handed introduction of a whole host of new technologies into American industry. All this is supposedly derived from the filing cabinet of Roswell wreckage over which he was given control by General Trudeau. He is very vague about details, and there is no substantiation for any of the claims on fiber optics, Kevlar, laser weapons, microcircuits, etc.1

That the person who is taking Corso to task and implying that he is a fraud is none other than Stanton Friedman is quite telling, since Friedman is perhaps the foremost apologist for the contention that an alien spaceship crashed at Roswell and that the government is covering it up.

Another of the seemingly expert witnesses, one who also claims to have seen the bodies of the dead aliens from the Roswell crash site, is Richard C. Doty. This would seem to represent a turn-about, since Doty originally appears to have spread disinformation to lead UFO enthusiasts on wild goose chases. According to one article:

The UFO community has been familiar with Richard C. Doty, self-proclaimed “disinformation agent” who used to work as an AFOSI officer in Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico. … Most folks seem to agree that he indeed had a deep impact on the life of businessman Paul Bennewitz, owner of defense contractor Thunder Scientific Laboratories in Albuquerque located right next to Kirtland Air Force Base.2

The article quotes Doty as saying:

I do not have anything to do with UFO research or investigations. I attempted to perform certain duties which would enable our team to trap possible foreign agents working against the interest of the United States. My supervisors, however, saw my actions as being unauthorized. Therefore, I was asked to leave AFOSI, which I did voluntarily.3

Is a man who has spread deceptive information and who at one time says he had nothing to do with UFO research to be trusted when he now says he saw the crashed Roswell spaceship?

Another of the witnesses giving important testimony in the film is Maj. George A. Filer III, who claims to have chased a UFO over Stonehenge. If we were to judge the credibility of a witness based on kooky beliefs he or she might hold, Filer would not come out well. When UFO skeptic Robert Schaeffer visited a MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) symposium in 2011, he reports that Filer gave a presentation in which he made some rather startling claims about the planet Mars:

Mars, according to Filer, used to be teeming with life until it was mostly wiped out in a nuclear holocaust some 180 million years ago. He showed NASA photos of Mars that purport to contain tubes (possibly water pipes, or trains) that extend for miles, as well as underground cities. There are numerous faces on Mars, and some of them look similar to Egyptian Pharaohs. But some life still exists among the ruins. The green colors on Mars represent growths of moss and algae.4

Considering that, according to NASA, the atmosphere of Mars is about 100 times thinner than that of Earth, and that it is over 95% carbon dioxide and only 0.13% oxygen,5 one wonders what the surviving Martians are breathing.

Similar to the assertion above by George Filer is the claim by Sgt. Karl Wolfe, another of the film’s witnesses, that he saw photos taken by the Lunar Orbiter of a base on the far side of the moon. In an online article titled “3 Dumbest Dark Side of the Moon Conspiracy Theories” Harrison Preston says of this claim:

Another prime candidate for our plain dumb category is one Karl Wolfe, a former sergeant in the United States Air Force. According to his own testimony for the Disclosure Project before the National Press Club in Washington DC in 2010, Wolfe claims to have been assigned to HQ Tactical Air Command in Langley, Virginia.

One day in “1965, mid-1965”, whilst assigned to the Lunar Orbiter Program, Wolfe says he saw “clear structures, buildings, mushroom shaped buildings, spherical buildings, towers” in a series of photographs of the far side of the moon shown to him by an airman in a lab he was working in.

He also stated the other airman told him “we’ve found a base on the far side of the moon.” Wolfe is very clear on the year this supposedly happened, and also the project he was a part of. It is this clarity which also serves to show why he couldn’t possibly be telling the truth.

The Lunar Orbiter Program ran from 1966 through to 1967, but the first images of the far side of the moon weren’t captured until the Lunar Orbiter 4 mission in May 1967—a full two years after Wolfe claims to have seen the structures and buildings! Lunar 4 photographed 9% of the far side, with Lunar Orbiter 5 imaging the rest in August that same year.6

A NASA report on the Lunar Orbiter missions notes that a total of 419 high resolution and 127 medium resolution photos were taken by the Lunar Orbiter missions, covering over 99% of the lunar surface.7 For all that, no alien bases show up in these photos.

From time to time Greer does read from what appear to be redacted secret documents released through the Freedom of Information Act. However, their headings are never shown. One reason we might doubt their authenticity is that they are coupled with yet another statement dishonestly taken out of context. Victor Marchetti, former Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA is quoted as saying:

We have, indeed, been contacted—perhaps even visited—by extraterrestrial beings, and the U.S. Government, in collusion with other national powers of the Earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public.

The quote is from a 1979 article by Marchetti in a no longer published magazine called Second Look, titled “How the CIA Views the UFO Phenomenon.” While that magazine is defunct, the article is available on a number of websites. In it Marchetti first admits that he has no firsthand experience with UFOs, has never seen one, and has no empirical or physical evidence of their existence. He then says the following, and here the material edited out in the quote above is added in italics:

My theory is that we have, indeed, been contacted—perhaps even visited—by extraterrestrial beings, and that the U.S. Government, in collusion with other national powers of the Earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public.11

So the filmmakers grossly misquoted Marchetti by removing the statement that it was his theory that we have been contacted by extraterrestrial beings, dishonestly quoting him as saying that extraterrestrial beings have definitely contacted us and that he knows definitively that our government is covering it up.

Earlier in the film, Greer says that Carl Sagan originally supported the idea that UFOs were real and had said that it was clear Earth was not the only inhabited planet. Greer then says:

After he was threatened by the intelligence community, and blackmailed, he then began to debunk the issue.

So, was Sagan originally a UFO believer, silenced and cowed by those running the Black Programs? Here’s what Carl Sagan actually said about extraterrestrial intelligence:

It now seems quite clear that Earth is not the only inhabited planet. There is evidence that the bulk of the stars in the sky have planetary systems. Recent research concerning the origin of life on Earth suggests that the physical and chemical processes leading to the origin of life occur rapidly in the early history of the majority of planets. The selective value of intelligence and technical civilization is obvious, and it seems likely that a large number of planets within our Milky Way galaxy—perhaps as many as a million—are inhabited by technical civilizations in advance of our own. Interstellar space flight is far beyond our present technical capabilities, but there seems to be no fundamental physical objections to preclude, from our own vantage point, the possibility of its development by other civilizations.12

Here Sagan is merely running a thought experiment extrapolating the possible number of extra-terrestrial civilizations based on the number of potential planets in our galaxy, a very common theme in SETI literature. In any case, there is no evidence that Carl Sagan was threatened by the government or that he was ever anything other than a skeptic concerning reported contacts by UFOs.

Yes cover up, there is a conspiracy to keep such information from the public, they only agree when their asses are on the line. If the Government provided some of the videos then why are complaining that no documented evidence has been shown?

Which is why I presented this documentary, to show there is documented evidence ALONG with testimonies (which is what you asked for). Your very own government officials have documented accounts of UFO activity. I don't care what you believe about testimonies, they are included as evidence, that is how they are defined.

You have numerous people that witnessed alien bodies, they were recovered and removed from the public eye. You have no idea what the hell they did with those remains, and there was no further open study that was allowed to show what they actually were (besides the fact they were not human, otherwise there would have been no cover up). Put two and two together, there was a UFO that crashed, beings that WEREN'T human were recovered, what the hell do you think was the alternative outcome? only a real dumbass would not be able to identify humans as humans or an aircraft that was not of this world. Skepticism can only go so far before it just makes a person stupid.

Are you fcking kidding me? you think this has anything to do with what I want?? I'm still considering this as a possibility this has nothing to do with what I want. What an insult, do you have any idea how often I remove myself from the core of my own beliefs to follow evidence? how many Christians do you know of that would present evidence for aliens lol? Roderick might be the first that I personally know of. This has zero to do with what I want, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend there is no documented evidence and testimonies that show otherwise. By now you should have realized how open-minded I am, my beliefs are rare and my posts are unorthodox to say the least. I don't give a shit about what "I want", that has never been my motivation, not at anytime in my life. That has no influence on my decisions. I'm interested in things outside of my own knowledge and experience, now that is what gets me going. But as I've said before I'm not stupid either, I wouldn't have presented this if I thought there was good reason to just sweep it under the rug.

What friggin arguments would you be looking for? you asked for documented evidence and I gave it to you. The only arguments I have in favor of this discussion would be from common sense, and I don't see you being open to pretty much anything at this point. Sorry.

Again are you fcking kidding me? is this supposed to be a joke because you have no idea what you are saying. What conclusions have I assumed to be true? have we ever discussed this? if not, then why would you be making any assumptions? I'm not a close-minded little brat, so I'm willing to look at the evidence and make adjustments as to what I may have thought was true. If you had asked me about aliens five years ago I would have probably laughed, but I'm willing to incorporate such a thing into my worldview because of being open minded about it. It actually works believe it or not, and I've given it quite some thought along with judging the evidence.

What tactics? I don't have an agenda, I don't have any motives other than sharing what I believe to be the case. I don't use tactics I use logic and evidence as a key factor

WTF are you complaining about? I have no idea what you are going on about. But to sit there and try and frame me as someone who believes what I want or that I base my beliefs around confirmation bias makes you an ass. At first I thought maybe you were a bit more intellectually open than some of the others, but after reading through your responses more it seems you're just another biased, rigid brainwashed little prick. You need to grow up some, you really have no place in a forum tailored to spiritual discussions or anything outside the realm of atheism. We need folks willing to follow logic, evidence, commonsense and those who have no bias and preconceived ideas. You're a dime a dozen, get in line and don't accuse me or project on me I'm a guy who has no care in the world about the way I want things to be. That's never been the life I've lived or the path I've taken. If you believe I'm being manipulative in any of our discussions you are a poor judge of character, I won't even bother engaging you anymore. 

It was because this was the only SOLUTION to the problem of sin.

He did himself what he knew no one else could do. 

Besides, Jesus had an advantage didn't he?  He knew he wasn't going to die.

You mean he believed in the resurrection? 

Besides, Jesus had an advantage didn't he?  He knew he wasn't going to die.

You mean he believed in the resurrection? 

No. I mean he knew he wasn't going to die. And he didn't according to many scholars and one Australian scholar in particular. 

It is highly implausible that Jesus did not die on the cross.

...the only reason I can think of to need to provide proof is if I'm insisting that you accept something as truth. And I don't do that with the Gospel/Bible, or anything else spiritually related. 

Occult, Witchcraft and Paranormal all labels people often use when they don't know where else to put things.

Hello, Roderick - long time no see!

It seems to me all religious experiences/religions might be considered part of the "occult". Its just that people don't generally consider their own beliefs mysterious or dark - that's what other people do! 😁