Where is the center of the universe?

Author: fauxlaw

Posts

Total: 27
Topic's author
#1
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
So, the other day, I happened to Google the question above, exactly as written above. Try it yourself. Was I surprised, or what? Who knew?

The first hit said "1 S Boston Ave, Tulsa, OK 74103" So, if you're from Tulsa, tell us how it feels being the center of everything.

Problem is, the address is not even the center of Tulsa. oh well, maybe the universe is off-center, too.

Yeah, I saw it, too. A map identifies some facility as "The Center of the Universe." Very cheeky.


#2
n8nrgmi
n8nrgmi's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,499
3
2
3
n8nrgmi's avatar
n8nrgmi
3
2
3
the center of the universe changes location. where ever trump happens to be, is where the center of the universe is. 
Topic's author
#3
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@n8nrgmi
yeah, according to MSM, who cannot seem to take him off center. What's their problem? Trump has them by the short curlies, only, it's not his hand. Simply a case of auto-premature efactulation. Pathetic.
#4
Sum1hugme
Sum1hugme's avatar
Debates: 37
Posts: 1,014
4
4
9
Sum1hugme's avatar
Sum1hugme
4
4
9
-->
@fauxlaw
Since space is expanding uniformly in all directions, both everywhere and nowhere is the center. Or me. 
#5
janesix
janesix's avatar
Debates: 12
Posts: 2,049
3
3
3
janesix's avatar
janesix
3
3
3
-->
@fauxlaw
The Earth.
#6
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@fauxlaw
There is no center of the universe!  According to the standard theories of cosmology, the universe started with a "Big Bang" about 14 thousand million years ago and has been expanding ever since.  Yet there is no center to the expansion; it is the same everywhere.  The Big Bang should not be visualised as an ordinary explosion.  The universe is not expanding out from a center into space; rather, the whole universe is expanding and it is doing so equally at all places, as far as we can tell.


According to all current observations, there is no center to the universe. For a center point to exist, that point would have to somehow be special with respect to the universe as a whole. Let us think about all the different types of effects that could create a center.



Nowhere basically. 
#7
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@janesix
Good answer.

The Earth is the centre of the known universe...Assuming that we can see for the same distance in all directions.
Topic's author
#8
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@zedvictor4
Before Galileo in 1610, we could see, with unaided eye, about 6,000 light-years from our position on earth, which is about 3% of the expanse of the Milky Way, from which center we now know is 26,000 light-years distant from us [therefore, not at it's center, either] let alone the rest of the universe. Does that mean that before Galileo, that [6,000 light-years] was the size of the universe, and we were definitively at its center? Don't be absurd.
#9
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@fauxlaw
I don't think that Janesix was applying scientific principles.

Nonetheless, we will always be at the centre of the known universe, but probably not at the centre of the unknown universe.
Topic's author
#10
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@zedvictor4
I'll agree relative to the unknown; it's entirely possible. I suppose it's even possible relative to the known universe, except that we do not observe the direction of expansion as flowing from our position.
#11
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@fauxlaw
True.


I need to read up on expansion theory.
Topic's author
#12
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@zedvictor4
Me too.
#13
Reece101
Reece101's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,973
3
2
2
Reece101's avatar
Reece101
3
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
@fauxlaw
Yeah there is redshifts and blueshifts of light we observe from large objects in outerspace. Red shows the direction of them moving away from us while blue means they’re moving towards. 

I had to double check if I got the colours correct.

#14
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Reece101
Thanks.....I will definitely do some more research.

Do you know of any good books?
#15
Utanity
Utanity's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 375
0
2
2
Utanity's avatar
Utanity
0
2
2
-->
@fauxlaw
The centre of the universe is where ever trump is being because thats how he is talking all the time but he is also being smart because he just talks the passive way like he will always saying what the universe is always revolting around him.
Topic's author
#16
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@Utanity
Trump is not that influential, and I suspect the universe has not a single care for the politics of one country of 200 on one world in the suburbs of our backwater galaxy.
#17
Reece101
Reece101's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,973
3
2
2
Reece101's avatar
Reece101
3
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
No sorry.
I’ve been diagnosed with dyslexia, ADD and mild aspergers. An interesting combination when it comes to concentration and soaking up information.
Let’s just say  reading isn’t really my forte. I used to watch a ton of documentaries, lectures and debates though. 
#18
Utanity
Utanity's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 375
0
2
2
Utanity's avatar
Utanity
0
2
2
-->
@Reece101
I’ve been diagnosed with dyslexia, ADD and mild aspergers.
Thats not being to bad because if your eating strong aspergers then when your going to the mens its not good so your having nothing to worry about because your good at trying harder than most peoples so you acheave much more.
#19
Utanity
Utanity's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 375
0
2
2
Utanity's avatar
Utanity
0
2
2
-->
@fauxlaw
Trump is not that influential, and I suspect the universe has not a single care for the politics of one country of 200 on one world in the suburbs of our backwater galaxy.
Your quite rite because weir no more than the pinprick on the but of the elephant but who caring about that not even the elephant.
#20
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Utanity
The "revolting" joke....LOL

18 days later

#21
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,920
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@janesix
If we live in finite Universe, there has to be a center.  And if the finite Universe is in eternally dynamic change then the abstract geometric center of Universe changes, relative to all of the celestial objects that are also dynamically in motion.

Our sun has high degree of sphericity , however, its geometric center  changes relative to its outer boundary and same goes for our eternally existent, dynamically changing, finite Universe.

Anything else you've read is non-sense. Rational logical common sense has most answers to all questions.
Topic's author
#22
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@ebuc
Rational logical common sense has most answers to all questions.
The only "rational" argument that the universe is finite is because it is impossible to wrap our minds around infinity, but that does not argue well for a finite universe.
That is like saying 20/20 vision is the best vision for long-distance clarity. But my eyes are over 70 years old, and I still see 20/10 from both. I see at 20 feet what "normal" sees at 10 feet. That's not just seeing, but seeing with clarity. Clarity is also a matter of logic, yeah?
#23
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,595
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
You might be tempted to say that the location of the Big Bang is the center of the universe. But because space itself was created by the Big Bang, the location of the Big Bang was everywhere in the universe and not at a single point. The major aftereffect of the Big Bang was a flash of light known as the Cosmic Background Radiation. If the Big Bang happened at one location in space, we would only see this flash of light coming from one spot in the sky (we can see a flash that happened so long ago because light takes time to travel through space and the universal scale is so big). Instead, we see the flash as coming equally from all points in space. Furthermore, once the motion of the earth is accounted for, the flash of light is equally strong in all directions on average. This indicates that there is no center of expansion.
#24
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,920
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@FLRW
FLRW, a lumpy loaf of raisin bread is finite and the dough expands and carrys the raisins  { galaxies } with it as it expands.

Any finite phenomena has a geometric center related to its outer surface boundaries.  Even if the boundaries are in dynamic change, lumpy or other-wise.

Any talk of infinite occupied space is ignorance of wholistic integrity, as infinite cannot have  cannot be niether whole nor have systemic or structural integrity.

These people who want to go off into infinite Universe cannot even barely grasp our finite Universe. Just ignorance spouting out nonsense.


..........................Space( * ) i ( * )Space..............................

Take a concept of a square and find its 2D center, now fold square into a tube and find the 3D center.  Now conceptually fold tube around to meet itself and locate the both prior make center points.

A balloon has a center  3D volume. Let air out of balloon and and place scissors into the opening and cut on trajectory to the approximate, diametric other end of the balloon and lay it out as if in a 2D area.  It will have wrinkles and folds but all of that topology can be accounted for and we find exact center as related to the 2D area of the
laid out balloon.

Our sun Sol, has a degree of sphericity, yet a changing center point can be assigned to its  minute changing outer geometric surface distance over at least three seperate  meaurements, tho the more the merrier for refinning accuracy.

#25
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@FLRW
So where is the "BACKGROUND"?

I always find this sort of theory interesting.
#26
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,595
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@zedvictor4
The background is the Universe. The Cosmic Microwave Background, or CMB, is radiation that fills the universe and can be detected in every direction.
It is detected by microwave space telescopes.
#27
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@FLRW
Yep, I understand and enjoy the concept.

But I always wonder why, as it is everywhere, is it referred to as "background"?

It is either current and here, or somewhere else in the background.