proposal: a stimulus check in exchange for getting vaccinated

Author: n8nrgmi

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#1
n8nrgmi
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this would cause many more to get vaccinated than would otherwise do it. that might allow us to reach herd immunity, where the disease won't spread any more. i mean, i know many here and out there wont take it, but they can live with themselves and the blood that is on their hands in choosing not to partake when they spread it around and kill people. 

so... this check in exchange for gettin vaccinated... who opposes and why? 
#2
Theweakeredge
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@n8nrgmi
Its very interesting, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but where would you propose we get the funding from? Just general taxes or do you have a specific plan for it?
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#3
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@Theweakeredge
it's only a few hundred billion. i prefer to raise taxes, but we can also find somewhere else to cut spending, or we can borrow. each of these options is decent and preferable compared to not doing my proposal. 
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zedvictor4
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@n8nrgmi
A. Those that choose vaccination will perhaps be protected, and B. Those that don't, won't be.

Therefore everyone should be satisfied with their own personal choice..... (As B will be no threat to A.)

All except those that are never satisfied with other people having the right to choose, of course.


#5
bmdrocks21
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@n8nrgmi
This is discriminatory against the religious.

In the wise words of Greta Thunberg:

“How dare you?!”
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#6
n8nrgmi
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the vaccine isn't a hundred percent effective... that could mean that the folks who refuse to get the shot, will spread it to those who did get the shot but aren't protected, and then that person dies. and some folks can't get the shot due to health concerns. they are vulnerable to the negligence of those who dont get shots too. 
no one is forcing anyone to get a shot... but it's your own problem if you dont get any cash either. 

who cares if some religions dont believe in getting vaccinated? if their religious teachin says they can't get a shot, they dont get no money. life isn't fair... but the bigger injustice is when those who dont get shots spread it to the innocents, and then the innocents die.  same way we have birth control on health care plans, even though some religious like catholics think that is inherently evil. 
#7
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@n8nrgmi
Some people don't share your high level of risk mitigation. 

Others think you should never leave your house and think you are being careless by doing so.

You can't win.
#8
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@bmdrocks21
This virus is simply a testing phase for how society handles the natural consequences of pushing the limit on sustainable populations of humans on a finite planet.

Just wait until the REAL consequences hit in a decade or 2 with cullings of the population being far more than just a fraction of the current birth rate. It will make the toilet paper shortage seem like a joke.
#9
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@n8nrgmi
Your arguments are extremely immature.

How about addressing my previous comments....Or do you find logic hard to cope with?
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#10
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@zedvictor4
your arguments were illogical and had no basis in reality... i pointed out that vaccines aren't a hundred percent effective, and that some folks can't get a vaccine for health reasons, plus it takes time to get everyone vaccinated who wants it- therefore folks who dont get the shot are putting innocent people at risk. i also pointed out that no one is denying people a choice to take the vaccine (they can choose to not get the money), as you wrongly implied. 
#11
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@n8nrgmi
What money are you referring to?....I never implied anything about money.

And my Statements were completely logical.

If  vaccines are not 100% effective, then vaccinated people may still spread the infection to others ....Perhaps more so, as vaccinated people would probably  have a tendency to be less cautious..... It's a two way argument, as long as vaccines remain less than 100% effective.

So what's wrong with everyone be satisfied with their own  personal choice....Other than your dissatisfaction, of others being allowed to make a personal choose.
#12
HistoryBuff
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@zedvictor4
So what's wrong with everyone be satisfied with their own  personal choice.
that's a bit like saying everyone should get to make the personal choice about whether they drive drunk. It isn't only their life at risk, it is everyone around them. We, as a society, infringe on their right to drink in order to protect public safety. 

I understand that mandating vaccines is a tricky subject. But I think stimulus checks being tied to vaccination is an interesting idea. 
#13
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@HistoryBuff
Ah!  You compelled me to research stimulus check....That's the the difference between American and British English for you....I had no idea what n8 was on about.


OK. So your comparison is sort of reasonable.....But driving a car whilst under the influence of alcohol, is obviously not a sober choice.....Banning alcohol would be the solution, but people would be up in arms if their freedom to consume alcoholic beverages was taken away....... It's our right to choose to enjoy a beer, the pro-vaccers would shout.

Or are you suggesting that pro-vaccers never drink and drive?


And the level of sweetener required would depend upon the necessities of those that you are trying to sweeten....People will do all sorts of things for a buck if they are desperate.
#14
HistoryBuff
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@zedvictor4
But driving a car whilst under the influence of alcohol, is obviously not a sober choice
I disagree. People usually don't enter a scenario where they are drinking without knowing they will be drinking. IE if you are going to a party, you know you are going to drink. Therefore before they start drinking they should know how they are getting home. Alot of people who drink and drive more than once or twice know going in that they are going to be doing so. I've met people who were proud of their ability to drive home drunk. 

Banning alcohol would be the solution, but people would be up in arms if their freedom to consume alcoholic beverages was taken away
banning alcohol would be one way of addressing it. but that has been tried and is not effective. Therefore we make it illegal to drink and drive. 

Or are you suggesting that pro-vaccers never drink and drive?
I was not attempting to suggest that. 

And the level of sweetener required would depend upon the necessities of those that you are trying to sweeten....People will do all sorts of things for a buck if they are desperate.
and this is kind of the point of the topic (I think, it is n8nrgmi's topic). In order to protect society from the virus we need herd immunity. To do that, we need at least (ideally more than) 70% of the population to be immune to the virus. So that is the goal.

There are different ways you can try to achieve it though. You can try to mandate that people must get the virus or be punished by law. This has obvious issues related to freedom and would likely harden attitudes about the vaccine.

You can try to educate people, telling them the benefits of the vaccine and why it is such a good idea they take it. However, alot of people don't trust information from experts, they only trust information from some blog post or facebook page. 

You can try more specific ways of encouraging people to get the vaccine. Things like banning kids from attending a public school until they have taken their vaccine, etc. This way people still have the freedom to refuse if they feel strongly, but are encouraged to take it.

n8nrgmi's solution is to use the carrot, not the stick. Reward people for doing the smart thing (with stimulus money) rather than punish them for doing the stupid thing (endangering people's lives by refusing to vaccinate). It seems more likely to have positive results. 

#15
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@HistoryBuff
Yep. No problems with the sweetener, but how much of a sweetener will be needed to convert the hardiest of anti-vaccers, do you think.


As for drink driving, perhaps the law is more lax in the U.S......Here in the U.K. the drink driving laws are tough and effective....But obviously not fool proof.
#16
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@zedvictor4
Yep. No problems with the sweetener, but how much of a sweetener will be needed to convert the hardiest of anti-vaccers, do you think.
there will always be a certain group of people you cannot reach. There are people who ardently believe that vaccines will give them autism, or are part of some global scheme to mind control the population. People like that can't be reached. No amount of evidence or logic will ever convince someone who wants to believe in a global mind control conspiracy. 

But (I seriously hope) most people aren't that far gone. They might have concerns about vaccines, some of which are warranted, most of which are not. But information proving their safety and effectiveness combined with a direct incentive would hopefully be enough for most people. 

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#17
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@HistoryBuff
they say a little over half the population is willing to get the shot anyway. so if you could bribe another one in four people to do it, we might get to herd immunity, which is around three fourths of the population, estimated. 
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@n8nrgmi
there's a lot of people that we can't know about that has immunity, had it and beat it with no symptoms.
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#19
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@Greyparrot
that doesn't change anything. if they take the shot, they get the cash. 
#20
sadolite
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The govt can take both and shove them strait up their collective ass

#21
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@Greyparrot
there's a lot of people that we can't know about that has immunity, had it and beat it with no symptoms.
that statement is inaccurate. There is insufficient evidence in this area. There have been cases of people getting covid more than once. So there is no guarantee that getting covid confers immunity. And even if it does, we don't know how long this immunity could last. it might be lost after a few months. 

This is no replacement for the vaccine. 
#22
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@sadolite
The govt can take both and shove them strait up their collective ass
Thank you for highlighting the portion of the population who are dumb enough to refuse the vaccine and choose to continue spreading a deadly disease. It is good to remember that such people are real as they are a serious problem. 

#23
sadolite
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@HistoryBuff
Total red herring you have 0 evidence that I am spready  any kind of disease or virus. Prove it. Prove the vaccine is safe. Prover that it isn't a tracker and doesn't alter my RNA/DNA. I have no interest in injecting some unknown untested poison into my body for a virus that has the same survival rate as any other flu strain. 99.6% survival rate. I'll take my chances, I am more likely to die doing 1000 other things than dyeing of covid. Prove I am wrong on that also.
#24
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@sadolite
Total red herring you have 0 evidence that I am spready  any kind of disease or virus. Prove it. 
you are aware that there is record numbers of cases literally every day right? You might be spreading the disease, you might not. There is no way to know until you've already done it. Thus the only way to prevent you from doing is for you to be vaccinated. 

Prove the vaccine is safe.
that is what clinical trials are for. They have been done. 

Prover that it isn't a tracker and doesn't alter my RNA/DNA.
lol, prove that I don't have a transporter and will beam you up and replace you with an evil clone. You are asking me to disprove an insane fantasy. 

I have no interest in injecting some unknown untested poison into my body for a virus that has the same survival rate as any other flu strain. 
wow, there is just so much stupid to unpack here. 

1) it is not untested. there are clinical trials it has to pass to be approved. that is the definition of "tested". So that is just a straight up lie. 

2) it isn't poison, obviously. Anyone who could think that is delusional. 

3) it does not have the same survival rate as "any other strain of flu". because a) it is not the flu, so phrasing it that way is stupid. b) it is like 10 times deadlier than the flu, so it is doubly stupid. 

I'll take my chances, I am more likely to die doing 1000 other things than dyeing of covid. Prove I am wrong on that also.
Ok, but that's like saying other things might kill you, so you should be allowed to drive drunk. It isn't just about you. This is something you should have been taught in kindergarten. You might get covid and be totally fine. But you would then probably end up spreading it to people who could be permanently injured by it or even killed. In your opinion, you seem to be fine with death and injury to other people in order to avoid being minorly inconvenienced. 
#25
sadolite
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@HistoryBuff
 "It isn't just about you. " Great, then I don't have to follow any  stupid ass ridiculous govt guide lines that are so pathetic and unscientific they will be laughed at for decades by real virologists..  I refuse to wear your FEAR AND LIVE UNDE THE TYRANNY OF YOUR FEARS for something that has a higher survival rate than walking out the door each day.  Clinical tests take years, not months. You didn't prove anything other than to regurgitate what you have been told to believe. You have no knowledge what so ever other than what you are told to repeat.
#26
HistoryBuff
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@sadolite
"It isn't just about you. " Great, then I don't have to follow any  stupid ass ridiculous govt guide lines
oh good, the battle cry of the right wing cry baby. WAH!!! I don't want to take medicine!!! i want millions to die so i don't have to take it. 

I refuse to wear your FEAR AND LIVE UNDE THE TYRANNY OF YOUR FEARS for something that has a higher survival rate than walking out the door each day.
what?!!? you can't possibly believe that is true. even you aren't that delusional. 

You didn't prove anything other than to regurgitate what you have been told to believe. You have no knowledge what so ever other than what you are told to repeat.
ok. so doctors and governments all over the world have tested the vaccines, and reviewed the tests of the vaccines. All the evidence says they are safe. but you, a right wing idiot who knows nothing about medicine, you know the "truth" about vaccines? this is just sad. 
#27
sadolite
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Yes, I do believe I take a greater risk of dying by leaving my house to go to work than the risk of getting covid and dying. More people die every day just leaving their house than those who die of covid.  Don't quite know what right wing politics has to do with anything. "All the evidence says they are safe." what evidence? there hasn't been sufficient time or a sufficient number of people to even come close to making a educated assessment. Govt lies all the time, govt misleads all the time. Govt never has the peoples best interests in mind. I know. I have lived along time. I have to this day never seen the govt do anything in anyone's best interest other than the govts best interest.

#28
HistoryBuff
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@sadolite
Yes, I do believe I take a greater risk of dying by leaving my house to go to work than the risk of getting covid and dying.
if that were true you would have died several times per year. So that is obviously just a lie. 

More people die every day just leaving their house than those who die of covid.
since "leaving their house" is not something that has ever killed anyone, again, obviously a lie. and not a very good one either. 

Don't quite know what right wing politics has to do with anything.
denying science. It is, unfortunately, a requirement of the right wing these days. 

 "All the evidence says they are safe." what evidence?
clinical trials. are you not even reading what I write or paying the slightest attention to reality. 

there hasn't been sufficient time or a sufficient number of people to even come close to making a educated assessment.
doctors and governments across the entire planet say otherwise. but since some random dude with no medical expertise says so, obviously all the medical experts are wrong....

I have to this day never seen the govt do anything in anyone's best interest other than the govts best interest.
and getting rid of covid is in the best interest of the government. It is causing huge problems for everyone. 

Topic's author
#29
n8nrgmi
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@HistoryBuff
while i dont like his stupidity of not caring about the virus, he has a point. the odds of dying in a car crash is .9%. last i knew, the odds of dying from covid is .7%, and that's only if you catch it to begin with. so, driving a car is more dangerous than covid. obviously precautions should be taken in both cases, though. 
#30
HistoryBuff
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@n8nrgmi
while i dont like his stupidity of not caring about the virus, he has a point. the odds of dying in a car crash is .9%. last i knew, the odds of dying from covid is .7%, and that's only if you catch it to begin with. so, driving a car is more dangerous than covid. obviously precautions should be taken in both cases, though. 
if he had made an actual point, as you have done, I would have been happy to rebut it. 

As you said, driving is dangerous. But we have many, many rules and restrictions on driving to make it safer. Speed limits, seatbelts, stop signs etc. If you fail to follow proper safety procedures you can fined, have your license revoked or be arrested.

You can't make driving 100% safe. And you can't guarantee anyone's safety, vaccine or not. But proper steps need to be taken to increase safety. Vaccines are a critically important step to improving safety.