I reject your claim

Author: secularmerlin

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#91
Mopac
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@Outplayz
You don't actually understand the "Christian god(sic)", so I can't really respect your opinion on this matter.

I believe in the God of Christianity, a God you don't know.

#92
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@Outplayz
"God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations."

#93
zedvictor4
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Pantheism is like saying;

Oh yeah! Actually your right but I can't fully admit it.
#94
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@zedvictor4
I don't understand what you are saying.

#95
Outplayz
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@Mopac
I'm pretty sure I compared your beliefs to Satanism too.
No... you said witchcraft. I remember these ad homs, it's actually rather amusing to me. But to give you credit you "agreed" with me that it's satanic... i'm the one that brought it up. I have a pretty darn good memory.

Just saying. You make it sound like you worship yourself as God.
Then you don't understand my belief. Start with pantheism since that's a big part... how is that worshiping myself? I just believe i am god bc everything is god. That is a different entity than human me. 

Your god is fabrication rather than The Ultimate Reality. 
"Pantheism" By definition this higher power is the ultimate reality lmao. You are trying to say the Biblical god is this being... nice interpretation i'll give you that.. but i know a couple Christian's that will call you a pagan lol. 

#96
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@Mopac
You don't actually understand the "Christian god(sic)", so I can't really respect your opinion on this matter.
I think i understand this god better than you do, to be honest. Seeing that you can't justify your god... or even make it clear, i would say me not understanding YOUR god is all on you. 

#97
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@Outplayz
But you aren't everything, are you?


#98
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@Mopac
It's like not putting all your eggs into one basket.
#99
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@zedvictor4
I still don't understand what you are saying.
#100
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@Mopac
Really? for being a panentheist that is quite the ridiculous question. I mean, i am a pantheist but that isn't much different. Human me is human me... the source of where i come from is? The pantheistic entity.
#101
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@Mopac
No offence but.

Metaphor really isn't a strong point of people on these debating websites.

Maybe it's an age thing.
#102
ethang5
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The bible contains contradictions. Doesn't that make it self contradictory?
Only in that it contradicts you.

I am essentially a pantheist... how is that self-contradictory?
God cannot be both the created and creator.

And, what do i find contradictory with the Bible... heaven. I think heaven as described in the Bible would be hell. Maybe you might have a different take on it that i might not find deathly horrifying... i'll see.  
Lol. You seem to believe you're sitting in judgement of my beliefs, or that I'm interested in converting you. You are mistaken.

Mopac, or I, are logical as long as we remain aligned with the ultimate truth. Stray and we go into error like anyone else.

I'll start with the above questions,....     
I don't care about what you find contradictory. I see no reason why your confusion should be my responsibility. Believe what you will, go and be happy.

That's about the size, where you put your eyes, that's bout the size of it.
I just hope you are more "logical" than Mopac is...  

I hope that whatever has made you believe that your religious belief was important to me, or that you could sit to validate my beliefs, clears up quickly.
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#103
secularmerlin
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The bible starts being contradictory right away with two accounts of in genesis that pit creation in different orders. When two claims are made in the same book and those claims are mutually exclusive (like if a book claims both that man was made before animals and that animals were made before man) them it fits my definition of self contradictory. Perhaps you are using your own special definition.
#104
Mopac
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@ethang5
@secularmerlin
The bible tells us that everyone is wrong, but God is right. The bible is not intended to be an idol before God, it is intended to facilitate the revealing of God and instructing in the ways of righteousness.

Each book of the bible is different, context is important. There are historical books, and sometimes you will see the same event chronicled in more than one book. They are slightly different from eachother. 

There is this belief among certain segments of believers that take The Bible as being The Word of God, yet The Bible says that all things were made by The Word of God, and there was not anything made that was made apart. from The Word. The Bible also says the letter kills, but the spirit brings life.

This all being the case, attacking the letter of scripture does not attack the spirit of scripture.
What is the spirit of the bible?

The Truth sets you free. The Truth is Salvation. Love The Truth. Love others in Truth.

#105
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If you can't admit your sin, tge truth ain't in you, ya know. My righteousness is nothing. All righteousness is of God.
#106
ethang5
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@secularmerlin
The bible starts being contradictory right away with two accounts of in genesis that pit creation in different orders.
Aaaand we know you're behind door number 3.

in the movie "Taken", when the father gets to the house where his daughter was kidnapped, the kidnapped scene is replayed, this time with additional shots of his daughter being dragged from under the bed. These genuises would insist that 2 daughters were kidnapped and it was a contradiction as the hero has only one daughter.

I can see the boneheaded questions now.
Who is wrong? The story or you? How many daughters were kidnapped?

And of course kieths "educated" take, "It is clear that the story teller intended to rehabilitate Paris as a den of thieves, taking time out to praise the city's electric grid in the middle of a gruesome torture scene!"

What does one do with such.......scholarship?
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#107
secularmerlin
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@Mopac
sometimes you will see the same event chronicled in more than one book. They are slightly different from eachother. 

So in other words it contradicts itself.
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#108
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@ethang5
Does the movie claim or show that she both does and dies not get dragged from under the bed?

#109
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@secularmerlin
Yes. Just like how WWII is chronicled in more then one book, each one slightly different so in other words "it" contradicts "itself" by citing more than one WWII. 

Yeesh.
#110
ethang5
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Does the movie claim or show that she both does and dies not get dragged from under the bed?
The original kidnapped scene does not show her under the bed. You and happy would be harping about that "difference" like trained seals.

I just wonder how you guys deal with flashback scenes in books. Perhaps you don't read. Nobody's reading comprehension can be that low.
#111
Mopac
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@secularmerlin
The death of King Saul would be an example of two different accounts of the same event that differ.
The accounts were written by different authors. Just as, like Ethang5 pointed out, two accounts of the same event in WW2 or any event for that matter might differ. But God is not a created thing like books, concepts, or matter. God is The Ultimate Reality, and The Christian Discipline has to do with personal relationship with God in the world.

So you might want to throw the whole thing out because you think a contradiction invalidates the whole thing, but you don't really understand scripture and what it is used for anyway, so you'd be behaving presumptuously. 

So what can I say? If you are going to feign agnosticism, don't presume to know. Presuming to know makes you dismissive. If you really didn't know, you'd be more apt to forget everything and suspend judgement.

Instead you adopt an attitude that is not really conducive to learning, so it keeps you stuck. I hope you see the truth in what I am telling you now, because I used to be the same way, and I want you to be enlightened, not waving about blindly in the dark.



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#112
secularmerlin
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@ethang5
Then yes there is an apparent contradiction. This may not necessitate that there is no utility in the accounts under discussion but they do contain contradictions. My statement about the bible being self contradictory stands.
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#113
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@Mopac
If I understand your analogy directly then we are all waving about blindly in the dark. I have already told you I do not deny that there is probably some reality but you have not demonstrated how the biblical account helps us to understand reality in any way.
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#114
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@Mopac
You also have more or less agreed that whatever purpose it does or does not fulfill the bible is self contradictory.
#115
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@secularmerlin
I'm sure your text books contradict each other at times, I guess that means your education is self contradictory.
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#116
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@Mopac
I don't have any text books myself but yes there are probably some contradictions in existing text books. Also as our understanding of the universe evolves older ideas tend to contradict newer ones. What does that have to do with the fact that the bible is self contradictory?

#117
Mopac
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@secularmerlin
If it was an issue, how could I, a believer, openly say this and still feel secure in my faith?


Obviously I don't take it as being as important as you do. I don't worship the bible as god, as a graven image. I know what the bible teaches, and it is certainly useful for its intended purpose. 



"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."





#118
ethang5
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@secularmerlin
Then yes there is an apparent contradiction. 
Only to someone with the reading comprehension of a boll weavil. Contradictions must exist outside your mind to make others consider them.

My statement about the bible being self contradictory stands
Lol. Your statement has never stood one day of your life. If it could, you wouldn't need to declare it by fait.
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#119
secularmerlin
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@ethang5
The contradictions in question exist in the bible and in the movie taken and in the collected histories of worldcwar two. If these things exist outside my mind then the contradictions also exist outside my mind therefore by your rational other's should consider them. Unless of course you meant something other than what you actually said.
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#120
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@Mopac
I made no claim about the importance of the contradictions in question. My only claim is that the bible is self contradictory which is observable true.