Riddle Mafia - Day Phase 1

Author: Danielle

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#301
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@Mikal
What's an easier assumption to make that may exist in a 11 person game ?
You love making illogical assumptions.

#1: We have a bastard mod who publicly town confirmed a mafia member

#2: Pie had no scum incentive to claim death proof instead of letting mafia waste a kill on him, ignoring a plethora of other roles. 

I am sure the count will continue to go up as the day phase continues.
#302
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@Mikal
Re : what role solves this without wasting 2dps?
Vigilante.
#303
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@Lunatic





Cop

Why in the fuck would we waste 2 dps when he's going to get investigated if we leave him alone. 

#304
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Doesn't have to be this np, can be the next one. 

But he's a likely target for investigation

#305
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BTW I just checked and the last three danielle modded games on DDO had a hunter in them... So... I think it's safe to say she likes that role. If pie is this role, and feels confident enough to use it correctly, I say let him, though obviously this isn't confirmed or anything. 
#306
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@Lunatic
Not saying she is a bastard mod. But I can see her putting a role in the game where mafia can write a riddle. She literally made one in live mafia (or was in one) where I could send posts from the mod a week or two ago. 
#307
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@Mikal
Cop

Why in the fuck would we waste 2 dps when he's going to get investigated if we leave him alone. 

It probably won't get that far, acting as if it does relies on the assumption that he isn't one of the plethora of other roles I mentioned, or isn't copped or vigged prior confirming that. 
#308
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@Lunatic
That's entirely my point. Then why waste a lynch on him when it solves itself and we won't waste 2 dps if he is telling the truth about lp
#309
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@Mikal
Not saying she is a bastard mod. But I can see her putting a role in the game where mafia can write a riddle. She literally made one in live mafia (or was in one) where I could send posts from the mod a week or two ago. 
Her last clue mafia didn't have this mechanic: https://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/102746/
#310
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@Vader
I literally said that I don't scum read her
Topic's author
#311
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Vote Count 
SirAnon (Greyparrot) -- 1/6 votes 
Pie (Intelligence, Supa, Lunatic) -- 3/6 votes 
Hamburgler (Pie) -- 1/6 votes 
Lunatic (Hamburgler) -- 1/6 votes 


Speedrace, SirAnonymous, Misterchris, Magic, oromagi 


#312
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@Lunatic
That shit is 3 years ago. We have did some crazy stuff in live mafia since then with fuckery and ways to town confirm yourself as mafia and she has been in nearly every game 
#313
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@Mikal
That's entirely my point. Then why waste a lynch on him when it solves itself and we won't waste 2 dps if he is telling the truth about lp
It's not wasting a lynch on him if he is any of those other roles. 

If he is hunter, then he is town and lynching him allows him to take down potential scum with him.

If he is Saulus, not lynching him and having him investigated will have him result in a guilty, even though he would win with town post lynch.

If he is Judas, not lynching him and having him investigated will make him look town, even though post lynch he would win with scum.

If he is Jester, he will just appear guilty, and we still lose when lynching him.

If he is vig killed he was lying about deathproof, and we don't waste a second day phase.

AGAIN STOP IGNORING THE PLETHORA OF OTHER ROLES AND INSISTING THAT WE ARE WASTING 2 DAY PHASES, there is no logical sense to this lol
#314
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@SirAnonymous
@Mikal
As I've already said, Danielle explicitly stated; "Each day phase will include at least one public riddle and/or clue by the mod."

BY THE MOD. We have no reason to believe scum came up with that riddle
#315
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@Mikal
That shit is 3 years ago. We have did some crazy stuff in live mafia since then with fuckery and ways to town confirm yourself as mafia and she has been in nearly every game 
Danielle has only played in a couple of games since that game 3 years ago, and was killed night phase 1 or 2 in almost all of them. I would say she is probably still prone to follow old habits, especially considering she followed the same habits in her games prior which were also years apart.
#316
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The only option we waste 2 day phases, is if he is scum 1x lynch proof and there are cop or vig actions confirming him by dp2
#317
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are not*
#318
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@Lunatic
If he is hunter and reads wrong we lose 2 town

If he is jester then idc either way 

I don't think danielle copied the role you were last game. 

What is likely going to happen. 

He is telling the truth which is why he wants to be lynched. He won't die. 

Then we are going to sit around with our thumbs up our ass trying to figure out if we believe him or not to get to the conclusion that role confirmation is not affiliation confirmation to likely lynch him either way 


Let this solve itself and not waste 2 dps 

Or a very likely misvig if he's a hunter. It practically stumps me you are saying there is a hunter and you are willing to let him shoot blindly because "he trusts his reads" 

Wtf lmao.  What reads. He hasn't even been in the dp other than to claim that or see the results of what has happened. 



#319
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@mod time left?

Also I want to see what pie says when he comes back. Before I read more. Its all circular at this point. 

We have to lynch. It's 11 but it should not be pie. Scum or not , it will solve itself later. 


#320
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I would really hate to say this, but Mikal is making sense. I think it is very bastard to have a misinformation riddle, but at this point my thoughts are we should either lynch Luna or not lynch this DP.  Comment #12 bothered me too, when I read it but it was just a gut check. In hindsight I think Luna embraced the riddle too willingly. I feel like Luna is usually more inclined to point out that nothing is certain and no information is guaranteed as town. Also, lynching Luna has the benefit of informing us whether we can rely on the riddles and will provide retrospective reads on a bunch of players. But I am also okay with VTNLing. 

If everyone disagrees on whether lynching Pie and him not dying this DP proves anything affiliation-wise, then this shouldn't be on the table anymore. 
#321
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@Mikal
If he is hunter and reads wrong we lose 2 town
Right, we blame pie if that's the case. We still test him though, over the liklihood he is scum. 

If he is jester then idc either way 
Same

I don't think danielle copied the role you were last game. 
Maybe, maybe not. Just cuz you don't think so doesn't discount the possibility.

What is likely going to happen. 

He is telling the truth which is why he wants to be lynched. He won't die. 

There was no motivation for him to claim that role dp1 then. You are buying into the argument that he is an idiotic townie WAY too easily.

Then we are going to sit around with our thumbs up our ass trying to figure out if we believe him or not to get to the conclusion that role confirmation is not affiliation confirmation to likely lynch him either way 
If he wasn't tested by a cop or vig at that point, then yes, I am willing to lynch him again. For this to happen, again you are assuming every thing didn't happen because you didn't want to be proven wrong. There are a bunch of ways this doesn't have to result in two pie lynches, and you are assuming the unlikely probability that it will based on extreme factors, but yes, even in the extreme factor where you are right, I believe he is worthy of a second lynch.

Let this solve itself and not waste 2 dps 

It doesn't solve itself with a cop, as I've already pointed out to you. We aren't wasting anything here, most dp1's tend to end in no lynches anyway. If we no lynch from lynching him, it makes the cop results that much more reliable.

Or a very likely misvig if he's a hunter
If we lynch him today, there is no likely mis vig. Assuming there even is a vig.

It practically stumps me you are saying there is a hunter and you are willing to let him shoot blindly because "he trusts his reads" 

There is just as good a chance he is hunter than he is any of those other roles I mentioned. If he misshoots as hunter, there's not much we can do.

Wtf lmao.  What reads. He hasn't even been in the dp other than to claim that or see the results of what has happened. 
And yet you are passing him off as idiotic town lol. More likely he is scum behaving like this, right?


#322
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My town read on likemagic just evaporated lol
#323
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@LikeMagic
This x 10
#324
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WHY IS EVERYONE SO BLIND BRUH????????????????
#325
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@Speedrace
that's actually a good point. Though it is possible that she gave the scum team a choice between pre=prepared riddles. Given how long danielle has been talking about creating this game, I have to assume she spent a lot of time writing riddles, so I agree the riddle is not likely written by scum.
#326
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@Lunatic
It wouldn't accomplish POE, because confirming he is lynch proof doesn't confirm him as town. Also pie said nothing about that when claiming, that is an argument you have made for him.
"I’m Deathproof

I can’t be killed in the night nor in the day by lynching. I urge everyone to LYNCH me today so that I may be confirmed in my assessment." Pie, from Post 35.

Whether it would actually accomplish POE is irrelevant as to whether he thought it would.

#327
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Was literally typing this and you beat me to it. Was trying to figure out how to frame it. Lynching luna lets us see how accurate the riddles are. Even if I'm wrong we get knowledge but everything about him accepting it bugs me. 



#328
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Nvm Magic just hadn't read yet ignore my last post
#329
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@LikeMagic
I would really hate to say this, but Mikal is making sense.
In regards to his suspicion that the mod riddle confirming me? Or "wasting two day phases" logic? 

Honestly I could careless about whether you believe I am confirmed from the riddle or not, at best it should be a null thing. I don't see how you could actively scum read me based on not trusting the riddle lol. If I had done something behavioral that's another thing. But if you agree with him on anything related to not testing pie, then you have lost your marbles.



I think it is very bastard to have a misinformation riddle, but at this point my thoughts are we should either lynch Luna or not lynch this DP.  Comment #12 bothered me too, when I read it but it was just a gut check. In hindsight I think Luna embraced the riddle too willingly.
I mean I am town, so I know the riddle is correct. What universe would a townie being town confirmed not willingly embrace a town confirmation? Also I was more put off by it then I was was grateful to it as it denies likely longevity in the game.

I feel like Luna is usually more inclined to point out that nothing is certain and no information is guaranteed as town. Also, lynching Luna has the benefit of informing us whether we can rely on the riddles and will provide retrospective reads on a bunch of players. But I am also okay with VTNLing. 
So you would rather lynch a confirmed townie than someone who actively claimed a role dp1 instead of letting mafia waste a night kill on it to prove whether the hints are to be taken seriously or not. That is ridiculous.

If everyone disagrees on whether lynching Pie and him not dying this DP proves anything affiliation-wise, then this shouldn't be on the table anymore. 
Not everyone dis-agrees with that. Literally it's just mike, and potentially you. I can't tell where you currently stand on this, but there is empirical evidence that I have pointed out that demonstrates why it's a good  idea.
#330
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@SirAnonymous
"I’m Deathproof

I can’t be killed in the night nor in the day by lynching. I urge everyone to LYNCH me today so that I may be confirmed in my assessment." Pie, from Post 35.

Whether it would actually accomplish POE is irrelevant as to whether he thought it would.

POE is your words, not his.