People always brush it off when Trump says it as "absurd" among other things, but can you name a president who has done more? Most people only say LBJ because he passed the civil rights act; however, he was a proud racist who frequently used the N-word and voted against any civil rights legislation in the senate before he was president. The only reason he signed it into law was because he was pressured by everyone to do so, and it would have been very bad politically if he hadn't.
Can You Name a President Who's Done More For the Black Community Than Trump Since Abraham Lincoln?
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
There's doing things and then there's doing things.
And it's no good judging the past by todays standards.
Obviously in terms of inspiration, Obama will have done more than Trump....Though that's forgotten, and move on.
And what Trump might have achieved so far, is forgotten and move on.
Whether or not the "Black Community" ( Interesting segregationist reference) or the wider community are still suitably impressed by Trump, remains to be seen.
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
Ulysses Grant. He did a pretty good job of shutting down the KKK for a while.
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
People always brush it off when Trump says it as "absurd" among other things, but can you name a president who has done more? Most people only say LBJ because he passed the civil rights act; however, he was a proud racist who frequently used the N-word and voted against any civil rights legislation in the senate before he was president. The only reason he signed it into law was because he was pressured by everyone to do so, and it would have been very bad politically if he hadn't.
Someone could just as easily bring up Trump's racist remarks and incidents (like the Central Park 5) pre presidency, or suggest he "only" did certain things to garner political favor from the black community, so I don't think focusing on a president's personal morality is useful for this convo. You asked which president did the most for blacks aside from Abraham Lincoln. In that case I might suggest President JFK since the Civil Rights Act went forward because of him. He gave the Report to the American People about civil rights in a TV speech and got the CRA up and running. And LJB even said the country should pass the Civil Rights Act to honor the memory and legacy of JFK.
A President William Jennings Bryan would’ve been interesting
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@Danielle
@zedvictor4
@SirAnonymous
Interesting answers, obviously this is all subjective and up to interpretation in terms of you would measure success.
You make an interesting point about forgetting zed, I believe your point is that we have to wait and see what blacks think of it. Although I don't think whether they believe it or not measures how actually successful it was. You mention people were inspired by Obama, I see how you can think of that as something being done, but I'm gearing this more policy wise.
Danielle, you make a good point about JFK and how his speech could have changed the course of history.
SirAnonymous, your right about that policy, but bearing down on the KKK seemed more of an anti-violence thing and this is what white people are doing thing, than a policy specifically focused on the black community. I agree it helped, but I just wouldn't put him at the top of the list.
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
aye nice to see u back bro
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
Nixon
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
but bearing down on the KKK seemed more of an anti-violence thing and this is what white people are doing thing
Yes and no. The KKK was preventing blacks from voting through intimidation, not to mention the lynches. While it was anti-violence, it was also very much pro-black and was specifically intended to be pro-black.
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@zedvictor4
Obviously in terms of inspiration, Obama will have done more than Trump.
You're just explaining why Obama would have been a better preacher or a life coach than a president. Presidents are remembered by how the country changed, and it wasn't that great under his 8 years. Especially the economy. BLM was created under Obama's administration which also helped to give rise to the terror group Antifa. Obama supported the radical anti-police groups by publicly shaming the police multiple times. Obama did nothing to create economic opportunity zones in Black Communities. Obama ignored the Blacks competing for the low wage jobs monopolized by illegal immigrants in inner sanctuary cities. Obama offered no actual solutions for Black unemployment, Black fatherlessness, and Black violence.
That's how Obama is remembered. He sowed the seeds for a race war that would have happened no matter who was elected in 2016.
Could Trump do better? Absolutely, but Obama set that bar pretty low.
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@bmdrocks21
Can you explain what Nixon did for blacks, and how it was better than what Trump has done?
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@SirAnonymous
But you think that warrants the title of best president for blacks since Lincoln?
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
People always brush it off when Trump says it,
Trump is the most prolific liar in human history. The Washington Post has tracked 22,247 lies told in his official capacity as President (that is, lies told while representing us Americans) by Aug 27th. (At more than 50 lies per day, the fact checkers are weeks behind on verification). That's not hyperbole, that is history. Even before Trump is remembered as President or television personality, history will not him as the greatest liar of all time.
When Trump cites any statistic "brushing it off" is the only appropriate response. The odds that there is any truth to a Trump fact are less than any other source possible. You are more likely to get an accurate representation from a kindergartener.
Fact checks of this specific claim (even before 2020) universally attribute no truth to the claim. For example, the Washington Post gives the claim 4 Pinocchio's- no truth whatsoever.
Trump hinges his claim on 7 mostly false claims:
- Black poverty was at an all time low in 2019, dropping 3 points after the Obama admin's 7 point drop. However, 2020 has erased all of Trump's gains and black poverty is back up to post-2008 crash numbers.
- Black unemployment last month was 16.7, highest official rate since Jan 1984.
- Criminal Justice reform was highly truncated version of a more expansive bill written by the Obama admin and rejected by McConnell & Co. Trump made no contribution beyond his signature to the popular bipartisan bill.
- Violent crime has decreased for all races fairly steadily since 1991 with some leveling out since 2014. Early reports are that COVID has resulted in significant decreases in crime generally, with some remarkable spikes in commercial break-ins, assault, etc during the Floyd riots of this summer.
- School choice accelerates educational white flight and mostly promotes home schooling which is not an option for families without one stay at home parent. 83% of home schooled kids are white, less than 5% are black.
- Opportunity Zones legislation has mostly just created massive tax breaks for the wealthiest real estate interests. Few blacks benefit from accelerated gentrification.
- HBCU funding is in the Congressional budget. HBCU funding during Trump's term is substantially less than either of Obama's terms.
In short, Trump's claims for Black improvement are mostly taking credit for other people's work and ignoring the devastation caused by his pandemic response. Against this weak record we need to consider
- 60% drop in civil rights investigations
- Virtually no investigations of any govt civil rights violations
- Massive new impediments and restrictions targeting black voters
- Substantial reductions in black nominations and appointments by Trump admin
- Trump's passive endorsement of white supremacy and personal history of racism
- Increased health risks to blacks caused by Trump's failed pandemic response
but can you name a president who has done more?
Of course, it is difficult to judge presidential racial policies of president's appointed to represent some of the most racist generations of people in history. Republican dominance in the later 19th century was substantially hindered in every attempt towards racial improvement by the racist Democrat voting block in the South and the overambitious radical Republicans in the North. The best measure I can think to apply is whether any President was ahead, with, or behind his time in terms of civil rights and protections for black people. By this standard, I'd place Trump on the lowest rung of presidents dealing with racial issues, alongside the self-defeating Andrew Johnson, the segregationist Woodrow Wilson, and the Southern strategist Ronald Reagan as presidents lagging farthest behind the slow expansion of the American franchise.
Most people only say LBJ because he passed the civil rights act; however, he was a proud racist who frequently used the N-word and voted against any civil rights legislation in the senate before he was president. The only reason he signed it into law was because he was pressured by everyone to do so, and it would have been very bad politically if he hadn't.
Personally, I admire Presidents who overcome individual prejudice when they accept the responsibility of representing all Americans. Obama, for example, was clearly personally uncomfortable with the notion of gay marriage but embraced the change in the face of a more accepting majority he led. Let's remember that the whole Democratic party recognized that they were sacrificing the Southern vote for a generation to support that civl rights bill 100 years after it had first been tabled in Congress but accepted that political price for a righteous cause.
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@oromagi
I'm sorry, but that post just reads as an "I hate Trump" op-ed. You can have your personal opinions of whether Trump's policies have helped the black community and be entitled to trust a leftist fact-checking website, I'm just asking for a fair assessment of what different president's have done for blacks. I don't think you answered the question, you kinda mentioned Obama, this was just a rant against Trump and conflating different political issues and opinions into a simple question.
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
I'm sorry, but that post just reads as an "I hate Trump" op-ed. You can have your personal opinions of whether Trump's policies have helped the black community and be entitled to trust a leftist fact-checking website, I'm just asking for a fair assessment of what different president's have done for blacks. I don't think you answered the question, you kinda mentioned Obama, this was just a rant against Trump and conflating different political issues and opinions into a simple question.
Disagree. The only totally personal opinion I gave you was my admiration for presidents who overcome personal prejudice, which I preceded with a "personally."
The rankings of presidents is necessarily subjective but I think my assessment of Trump as significantly behind the times racially speaking, alongside Johnson, Wilson & Reagan is highly defensible and corroborated by substantial presidential history.
The rest of it - Trump's lies, claims, and failings relies on objective data taken from Trump's own tweets, FBI UCR, Wikipedia, WashPo mostly.
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
But you think that warrants the title of best president for blacks since Lincoln?
It definitely puts Grant up there. LBJ, despite his personal flaws, is also a contender because of the Civil Rights Act. I think his Great Society programs have been a disaster for poor people, which, sadly, includes a lot of blacks. I think the Civil Rights Acts outweighs that rather significantly, though. I would put either of them ahead of Trump. Trump has been pretty decent on the economy which has helped everyone, blacks included. Well, he was pretty decent until covid came along and ruined everything. I think the claims that Trump had the best economy ever are greatly inflated and are mostly attributable to partisanship and Trump sycophancy. As for how good Trump has been for race relations, I think his contributions, whether positive or negative, have been largely overshadowed by the contribution of the monster who kneeled on George Floyd's neck. That being said, I don't think Trump has exactly been a smashing success for race relations. Racist or not, he definitely isn't helping things on that front.
And, quite frankly, I find comparing Trump to Lincoln to be grossly insulting to Lincoln.
This article didn't much figure into my opinion above but I thought the order was fascinating. Particularly,
- Obama's 5th place
- Teddy's 2nd place- I always thought of Teddy as a big disappointment in civil rights....
- Eisenhower before Johnson. wow.
- KKK thrived under Coolidge, how did Coolidge get so high?
Its a very interesting way to measure. I wonder how Trump would rank here?
My prediction is last.
The sheer number of black Obama voters that now vote for Trump is enough evidence for me.
Oro can whitesplain all he wants to about what it means to be black, just like Biden did.
The proof is in the ballot box.
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@oromagi
lol, pretty amazing you can't even see your own bias. "objective data" in which it wasn't even objective in the first place, and furthermore you interpret it to fit your narrative. Don't lie to yourself and say the washington post is "objective." Give me a break.
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
Name three sources that you consider more reliable than the Washington Post
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@oromagi
There are almost no mainstream moderate news sources, but every media bias checker has the Washington post at least left-center(I prefer mediabiasfactcheck.com, because all the the other supposed bias checkers are biased in themselves, lol). If we're going for fair reporting but still a slight bias to the left, I'd say The Hill. If we're going for the same thing but to the right, I'd say the New York Post(keep in mind i'm talking only about news, not any editorials for all of these). If we're trying to go for closest to the center on either side, I'd say the Wall Street Journal(and I'd definitely consider The Hill). Media sources who are pretty much completely neutral and pretty much just says what happens and let's the people decide how to interpret it are Real Clear Politics and C-Span.
Edit: I'd actually say the Hill is neutral as well, just as much as the Wall Street Journal.
So The Hill, The Wall Street Journal, Real Clear Politics, and C-Span. There's 4 for you.
@oromagiThere are almost no mainstream moderate news sources, but every media bias checker has the Washington post at least left-center(I prefer mediabiasfactcheck.com, because all the the other supposed bias checkers are biased in themselves, lol). If we're going for fair reporting but still a slight bias to the left, I'd say The Hill. If we're going for the same thing but to the right, I'd say the New York Post(keep in mind i'm talking only about news, not any editorials for all of these). If we're trying to go for closest to the center on either side, I'd say the Wall Street Journal(and I'd definitely consider The Hill). Media sources who are pretty much completely neutral and pretty much just says what happens and let's the people decide how to interpret it are Real Clear Politics and C-Span.Edit: I'd actually say the Hill is neutral as well, just as much as the Wall Street Journal.So The Hill, The Wall Street Journal, Real Clear Politics, and C-Span. There's 4 for you.
C-SPAN is mostly a camera pointed at Congress. While cameras seldom lie, the politicians standing in front do so all the time. If you are looking for an exact quote from a hearing or debate, C-SPAN is quite useful but there's no real journalism to evaluate.
According to your preferred fact-checker, all four of the remaining sources are ranked lower than the Washington post for reliable reporting.
WashPo is rated HIGH
The Hill, WSJ, and RCP are all rated as less reliable MOSTLY FACTUAL
The NY POST is another rung down at MIXED. (That's before reporters refused to put their name on a story last week because they could not verify most of what it said, so publishers just slapped some FOX flunky's name on and ran it).
I'm less concerned about bias than reliability. If a fire broke out in a crowded theatre and one friend who always gets his facts right but does not share your politics told you the exit was at the front while a second friend who shares your politics but sometimes get his facts wrong insisted the exit was to the back, which way would you head?
( In this analogy, the NY Post is the friend with the 5-gallon can of gas.)
Using your standard, we should be agreeing that WashPo is a more reliable reporter of objective data regarding the Trump admin than any of the sources you name (excepting C-SPAN which does no reporting).
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@oromagi
You know just as well as I do that The Washington Post's "fact checker" is bias. They interpret quotes in a way that fits their narrative, it's not straight reporting. Have they done these constant "fact checks" with democrats? You know they would be much more lenient with Biden's quotes than they would with Trump's. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that they are "reliable" and report factually, but the way in which they interpret those facts, twist it with their own political opinions, and present it to the public is clearly anti-Trump.
Yeah, Obama and every single Democrat since Lincoln freed the slaves and left things terribly segregated.
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@Greyparrot
The question specifically asked who had done what for the "Black Community". Not, who had done what for the U.S.A.
You've hijacked the issue somewhat. Seemingly for purposes other than what was intended.
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@zedvictor4
Blacks in the USA are Americans, silly.
- Obama did nothing to create economic opportunity zones in Black Communities. Obama ignored the Blacks competing for the low wage jobs monopolized by illegal immigrants in inner sanctuary cities. Obama offered no actual solutions for Black unemployment, Black fatherlessness, and Black violence.
Did nothing for prison reform affecting Blacks either.
Don't know why you have this fixation on fiction.
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@Greyparrot
Presidents are remembered by how the country changed, and it wasn't that great under his 8 years. Especially the economy.
The Obama administration inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression. If you want to pretend that a president is responsible for the market, then by the same logic Trump has been a monumental failure considering the way the coronavirus has turned the economy to shit. After all Trump was in office so it must be "his economy" right? He must be responsible for it right? Is that how it works?
Unemployment has been steadily declining since 2011. Economists agree recovery from the recession happened under the Obama administration and Trump's admin continued the same trajectory. Keep in mind Trump is constantly at odds with the Fed and always lamenting their regulatory actions, so is Trump really to thank for how it's worked out? He's always calling for the exact opposite of what Jermone Powell does but of course he will take credit for how it's worked out lol. Typical Trump, and of course his supporters are too stupid to realize it.
What Trump can take credit for is a confidence boost in the market, but of course the stock market =/= the economy and the market works in cycles. The 'boom' under Trump was always going to come to an end for some reason or another, and indeed it has.
BLM was created under Obama's administration which also helped to give rise to the terror group Antifa.
BLM was created in response to Travyon Martin's death, and the fact that you would attribute this to Obama is beyond stupid. Obama is not the reason so many people got sick and tired of racism in the criminal justice system. People have been protesting that for decades. BLM was not a "response" to Obama; it was not "because" of Obama and Obama did not encourage the formation of either one of these groups. ANTIFA has nothing to do with Obama -- you literally made that up, there's not a shred of evidence for that and you can't justify that claim -- so now you're going to gloss over it and pretend you never said it which is good. Don't waste our time.
Obama supported the radical anti-police groups by publicly shaming the police multiple times.
He's shamed bad policing: racism in law enforcement and not adhering to the oath. That isn't "anti police" and the fact that you can't tell the difference is pathetic . Someone can say we need REFORM and need to IMPROVE and that would not qualify as shaming (though let me be perfectly clear when I say that cops need to be shamed much more than they ever have been before -- most of them should be downright humiliated for their failures to abide by their oath and the things they get away with, but Obama never said that -- I did). That's like saying if you're against child abuse you're "shaming parents." Fucking dumb.
Show us Obama "shaming" the police multiple times. I need to see this. I can't wait to see you post quotes of him saying things like "we need to be better" and call that shaming. Lol. Meanwhile there is quote after quote and clip after clip of Obama praising police, calling them heroes, saying we need to respect the law, etc. But please do show us the best you could come up with. Like, the very best. I want to see Obama really put cops down. Show us!
Obama did nothing to create economic opportunity zones in Black Communities.
I can tell you that real estate investors loooove Trump's "opportunity zones" lol. More than 90% of the billions invested in this initiative have gone to real estate deals - woo! I can tell you that investors have made a lot of money (and I got great bonuses <3) while the tax cuts do little to nothing to assist needy residents. I can tell you that the residents may even be displaced depending on what kind of investment is made. I can tell you there's no way to quantify the benefits, because Congress and Trump's treasury department refuse to document and disclose the program's impact -- so can you explain how Trump has done much better than Obama in this area? At the very least can you PLEASE explain to MisterChris why this type of economic planning touted by Trump is not libertarian at all :P
Obama ignored the Blacks competing for the low wage jobs monopolized by illegal immigrants in inner sanctuary cities. Obama offered no actual solutions for Black unemployment, Black fatherlessness, and Black violence.
It's funny seeing people who are usually for "state's rights" and local government lament the lack of force and reject local sovereignty in favor of federal government control - yet another way Trump is not remotely libertarian (lol that kid is seriously confused). And similarly people who call themselves "capitalists" suddenly have a problem with people competing for wages -- the horror!!! I cannot BELIEVE Obama would let people compete for jobs and drive down prices for the consumer!!! Capitalism is the fucking DEVIL and Obama should be crucified for allowing it. Right kids? Can Trump supporters please explain to everyone why capitalism sucks?
And yeah its obvious that Obama did nothing to stop illegal immigration except deport more people than Trump.
Can you explain what kind of "solutions for black employment" the president is responsible for? More curiously, has Trump done anything to help the situation of black fatherless people? Has he done anything to quell racial tension and violence? If not then... what's your point?
That's how Obama is remembered. He sowed the seeds for a race war that would have happened no matter who was elected in 2016.
I agree that Obama's presidency is largely to blame for racial tension, because this country is so chock full of fragile little white cucks who got very upset at seeing a black man in the White House while their own livelihoods continued to deteriorate (admittedly a lot of the free market policies Republican politicians and myself embrace have a lot to do with that). The "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" crowd has always been the most whiney, most weak, and the fastest to blame others for their economic problems while lamenting liberals for doing the same. They want to blame immigrants, they want to blame politicians, they want to blame Hollywood, they want to blame Wall Street, they want to blame everyone but themselves and Obama was the perfect scapegoat (cuz they're racist) even though they don't have a god damn leg to stand on in their criticisms.
If anything liberals and progressives should complain about Obama for being such an ineffective MODERATE. Granted he had a Republican Congress and they literally conspired to stop him from accomplishing dick, but Obama was straight up moderate and faaaaar to the right of all Democrat presidential candidates today. Obama's ONE BIG ACHIEVEMENT was the ACA which is very popular; even Republicans largely support government healthcare.
Aside from that he didn't do anything that would rile up conservatives, yet they still went ape shit cuz they're fucking racist. Period. They keep calling him a "socialist" even though he wasn't at all. They created this entire false narrative about how he is responsible for every single thing they dislike (please explain how Obama was a race baiter... god I wish there was an eyeroll emoji on here). They blame Obama for other people being racist towards him and because of him which is insane. Obama did not "sow the seeds of a race war" and did nothing to foster or promote racial tension. He acted on his best behavior and said all the right things - the OPPOSITE of Trump. Trump dog whistles to racists (sometimes it's loud and clear) and told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by" but you think Obama prepped people for a race war? Give me a fucking break. Virtually everything you've said in this post is wrong. Just unsubstantiated regurgitated rhetoric from Tucker Carlson. I wonder if you looked as constipated while you typed it as he does when he's speaking.
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@Greyparrot
I'd argue from a morale perspective, Obama did a lot because of the fact he was black and it gave them hope they could achieve anything they wanted in this world despite the color of their skin
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@Danielle
If you want to pretend that a president is responsible for the market, then by the same logic Trump has been a monumental failure considering the way the coronavirus has turned the economy to shit. After all Trump was in office so it must be "his economy" right? He must be responsible for it right? Is that how it works?
President is responsible for the recovery which he sucked balls at. Don't even pretend Obama's recovery was the greatest in all US history.
not a shred of evidence for
Ok, Cambridge Cop.
fragile little white cucks who got...
I am far more impressed with the Obama voting Blacks (6%) that voted for Trump giving Obama the middle finger at the ballot box while you sit here whitesplaining shit with your tired misconceptions about the Great Obama who really gave a fuck about Blacks.
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@oromagi
The Washington Post has tracked 22,247 lies told in his official capacity as President (that is, lies told while representing us Americans) by Aug 27th. (At more than 50 lies per day, the fact checkers are weeks behind on verification).
Trump has been in office 1,373 days. You cite WaPo as Trump telling 22,247 lies, but that their tracking is delayed back to 8/27. We are now 10/24, or 58 days in arrears on the alleged number of Trump lies, so, 1,373 - 58 is 1,315 days. 22,247 / 1315 = 17 days [ok, 16.9], not 50. Psychology Today says that the average person tells 10 - 20 lies per day. That says Trump is within the average population, not even close to "the greatest liar of all time." The numbers say you're exaggerating. What a surprise.