Does true fashion require sentience?
Can things not part of an animals body, like the style of its nest or the dam of a beaver be considered fashion?
If not, then how come the home of a human can be considered fashion? What's the difference?
Are Animals Capable Of Fashion?
Posts
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17
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@ethang5
I'm sorry no one replied I think this is a relatively interesting topic.
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@secularmerlin
Don't waste your apologies. I have never had a no reply post in more than 10 years.
Those who think it interesting will find it.
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@ethang5
I think it's interesting.
I meant those who would find it interesting enough to comment saying something related to the OP.
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@ethang5
Fashion is defined in part as a popular trend, especially in styles of dress and ornament or manners of behavior.
Beaver have been building their damns the same way for thousands of years. I would call that a very popular very enduring trend. Koko the gorilla was very interested in her appearance by all accounts. Many animals put on displays or make homes designed to impress mates.
Yeah, I'd say animals are capable of fashion after a fashion.
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@secularmerlin
Only in general. Each dam is a little different. And beaver experts can look at a cross-section of a dam and tell you to within 50 years when it was built. Perhaps some of those minor changes could be left up to the beaver's personal taste.Beaver have been building their damns the same way for thousands of years.
Fashion is defined in part as a popular trend, especially in styles of dress and ornament or manners of behavior.
Fashion can also be the the eclectic taste of an eccentric individual. Your definition precludes that. And that is more how I meant "fashion" Than as a "popular trend" among animals.
Koko the gorilla was very interested in her appearance by all accounts. Many animals put on displays or make homes designed to impress mates.
But can that be truly considered "fashion" under either of our definitions?
....capable of fashion after a fashion.
Nice pun if you intended it.
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@ethang5
Nice pun if you intended it.
I did thanks for noticing.
Only in general. Each dam is a little different. And beaver experts can look at a cross-section of a dam and tell you to within 50 years when it was built. Perhaps some of those minor changes could be left up to the beaver's personal taste.
That is fascinating. Do you have a link?
Fashion can also be the the eclectic taste of an eccentric individual. Your definition precludes that. And that is more how I meant "fashion" Than as a "popular trend" among animals.
It's not my definition it's according to Google definitions. I think we can use your preferred definition since this is your thread.
Koko the gorilla was very interested in her appearance by all accounts. Many animals put on displays or make homes designed to impress mates.But can that be truly considered "fashion" under either of our definitions?
I think at least the koko example counts.
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@secularmerlin
I'd have to read up on it, but couldn't she have been mimicking her handlers, meaning just as little as a parrot mimicking a phrase?
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@ethang5
It's hard to be certain. I know she used the sign for queen sometimes when referencing herself despite the fact that her trainers rarely used that sign. Do you think koko was self aware? I would think so but it is beyond my epistemological limits to say for certain.
No. There brains are destined for survival and not as complex as the human. Therefore they don't think much about fashion at all. Even dolphins, who are sometimes smarter than humans, don't or don't show the ability to know about fashion
What then about SecMer's idea of Koko? Are you fimiliar with her story?
72 days later
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@ethang5
This is actually an interesting and worthwhile question to ask, one of which I wouldn't normally expect of you, Ethan, making it all the more pleasing to see.
My guess (and I do mean guess) is that they are, but perhaps to a smaller degree than humans, due to social complexities being lesser in non-human animals. I think fashion is determined by in/out-group status, and thus animals, given that they also have these group selection mechanisms, would also be capable of fashion.
Green is very trendy in the insect world right now.
15 days later
Animals are not meant to be domesticated, they are meant for the wild savaging on the prey. They should not wear clothes period.
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@Mharman
That's hoooot
1662 days later
Fashion,
Function or Aesthetics?
Though I'd suppose even Aesthetics is maximizing the function of 'something,
'Some value or ratio.
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Some animals are color blind,
Probably respond more positively to some colors, or not.
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I've heard of animals painting,
But this is a human 'taught trick.
Not that animals 'don't have a numbers sense,
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Hermit Crabs are picky about the shells they wear, I've heard,
But is this 'fashion, or just 'use,
Even if they were particular to colors, maybe they're just picking what is useful.
Though even in humans, what's the 'big difference?
Some past event our current want, ups some value in our mind,
We select piece of fashion for that value.
Perhaps it as as Vader says, 'complexity?
Perhaps 'shape,
What makes a string a ball, it's shape,
A knot, it's function, it's shape,
Maybe something similar in concepts.