Are You Really Free Under Capitalism?

Author: ebuc

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badger
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Of course you're not getting your exact 241, there's a lot lost in translation, the billionaire's cut of course. But you've been getting a lot more than you're worth. There's no two ways about it. This is what capitalism is and always has been. 
badger
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I just did some math. If Elon Musk makes 16 million dollars an hour as reported,  that's the man-hours of building a pyramid he's buying for every single hour worked. 
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@badger
Capitalism rewards people who have crazy ideas that actually work.

Only under Capitalism is where a fool and their money are soon parted.
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@Greyparrot
Completely besides the point.
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@badger
The nice thing about Communism is that fools don't have to worry about losing wealth as they are not allowed to give it away since they are not allowed to own property.
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@Greyparrot
Do you understand my point about capitalism? I just think it's interesting. It's a simple point, I think. 
badger
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I think we're headed towards something communistic like it or not. I don't think capitalism is much of a thing without massively unequal peoples, and I think if that doesn't do it, automation will. All those poor as fuck Chinese people and from wherever else are all tied up in your capitalism too, and probably not so enthusiastic about it. it. It's easy to be enthusiastic when some other poor fuck is doing 240 times your work. 
badger
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I'm not bashing capitalism. I think elements of it are monstrous but the whole world of animal evolution is monstrous, it's fucking impressive. Humans are spooky shit lol. I just think it's interesting
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@badger
Capitalism is still the best system in a world of people born biologically unequal.

The exceptional people cancel out the retards. Any other system, the exceptional people and the retards are absolutely fucked.
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@badger
Honestly, the future is going to have genetic engineering at some point so that everyone will be equal.
badger
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@Greyparrot
Capitalism is not a system, it's a limb. It's ant colony optimisation or some shit.
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@badger
It's the embracing of survival of the fittest. Good for the species, bad for the failed natural genetic experiments.
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@Greyparrot
I say this with all love, but I suspect you might be retarded. And me with you. 
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Badger asked me to comment so I will point out that the popular American conception of a Capitalism vs Socialism dichotomy is an artifact of Cold War religion without much grounding in reality.

Capitalism is private ownership of the means of production for the purpose of profit.
Socialism  is public ownership of the means of production for the purpose of public welfare.

Communism is a specific utopian form of Socialism that has never been tested and was made irrelevant by the industrial revolution, globalism, and the migration of human populations to large cities.  Anybody who talks about Communism as a thing that existed is going by misleading labels and not by actual definitions.  Anybody who calls Stalin's USSR or Communist China an example of Communism or Socialism is wrong- the people never owned the means of production in those states.  In any autocracy, the autocrat(s) control the means of production and all attempts at private or public control are shot in the back of the head.

I don't believe either economic philosophy exists apart from the other and that excesses in either dynamic are unsustainable.

In order for the people to genuinely control the means of production, some kind of democratic system of government is necessary and with that inherent enfranchisement comes at least some degree of independence necessarily.  But the mob can be just as tyrannical, stupid, slow, and fickle as any individual and when the overall public benefit runs contrary to an individual's sovereignty and comfort, freedom is trampled.  The necessity of satisfying the majority necessarily limits the efficiency of profit-making and the accumulation of wealth. 

Capitalism allows for greater extremes on the freedom index than Socialism.  Unlike Socialism, Capitalism carries no inherent promise of democracy- slavery is not just permitted under Capitalism, it is outright encouraged as a most efficient form of human labor.  We should remember that the most perfect Capitalist society ever depicted in fiction is The Matrix- all human production efficiently managed by AI for the maximal production of energy.  Since a society where no humans are free can still be called Capitalism- we can't conclude that Capitalism is closely linked to freedom.  Nevertheless, Capitalism is far more efficient than Socialism.  Without encouraging the freedom of private enterprise to take risks, re-invest, innovate, and restlessly re-negotiate, public economies stagnate and regress.

You can't have one without the other.  Socialism has a requisite degree of freedom that Capitalism lacks but a well-regulated free market is far more profitable and so makes room for greater degrees of freedom, ultimately. 


badger
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I was exactly thinking about The Matrix with a lot of the shit I was writing there. Thanks for the post man, good post. 
Greyparrot
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@badger
the robots will equalize where natural biology cannot.
ebuc
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@Greyparrot
Any other system, the exceptional people and the retards are absolutely fucked.

This above nonsense is aligned with,  All-for-Trumpet and Trumpet-for-Trumpet, narrow minded ---void of science---    butt-forward type thinking

Capitalism represents unlimited freedoms at expensive of ecological systems that sustain humanity on Earth.

Capitalism represents 'progress', a progression of unfettered liberties, that, are leading to end-date-of-humanity on Earth 2232.

I recall two global thinkers ---Carl Sagan LINK and Bucky Fuller--- who gave humanity warnings in late 70's and mid 90's  that humanity is headed into, or already in,  a new dark age.

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@ebuc

Sung to the tune of "Capitalism Sucks" and with trumpet music only.
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@ebuc
Nicely stated.

But who or what else gives a fuck though?

Hopefully Alternative Intelligence will have made a move by 2232.

Do you think we will still be whizzing around the Earth in a tin can?....Or will we have made it to Mars by then?


Or maybe a GOD will have returned to sort things and nailed another of it's kids to a cross.
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@zedvictor4
But who or what else gives a fuck though?
Too little too late = demise of humans on Earth.

Hopefully Alternative Intelligence will have made a move by 2232.
AI is irrelevant to humans survival on Earth or anywhere else.  What is relevant is options scenarios  ---derived from data fed into computers--- that majority of humanity can trust enough to vote on a way forward.  Then checks and balances if we find problems along the pathway. 

The alternative to the vote is authoritarian rule that forces ---our way or eat the dirt---  humanity on a pathway forward that may not lead to our demise.

Do you think we will still be whizzing around the Earth in a tin can?....Or will we have made it to Mars by then?
Mars is irrelevant to humans survival on Earth. Your kidding yourself with false hopes.

Or maybe a GOD will have returned to sort things and nailed another of it's kids to a cross.
Dimmwit thinking is always with us.  If it is not minimized, bye-bye humanity on Earth. 2232 or thereabouts.

Some believe my prognostication value is way to generous.  Some believe humans will be able to create biologic life within in 30 years.  More irrelevance to existence of humanity on Earth beyond 2232.






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@ebuc
A.I. will be relevant to itself, relative to any universal purpose that my prevail....Perhaps.


I will be dead by 2060 so what will I care if we colonise Mars or not.


Thinking is thinking, a process by which we are able to evolve matter....Slow as it may seem.


Actions, create consequences, demand responses....A simultaneous process of material evolution and dimwit thinking.


Such is humanity and what might or might not be a purposeful existence.
ebuc
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@zedvictor4
A.I. will be relevant to itself, relative to any universal purpose that my prevail....Perhaps.
I have no idea what your going about zed.

I will be dead by 2060 so what will I care if we colonise Mars or not.

Thinking is thinking, a process by which we are able to evolve matter....Slow as it may seem.

Alfred { Zed }, there is simple-to-complex evolution and there is complex-to-simple evolution. From what I see above from you, I think your thinking  tends toward the latter of those two. Slow aka retarded.

Actions, create consequences, demand responses....A simultaneous process of material evolution and dimwit thinking.
Ok Alfred.  Your actions are evolving, I'm just not yet, for sure,  which direction your evolving.

Such is humanity and what might or might not be a purposeful existence.
Whole lot of mights and might nots.   Beyond the basics all animals have in common, Fuller laid out clearly what human purpose is.  Ive presented those four many times at DArt and prior Dart. Can you list them. No?  I didnt think so.




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@ebuc
Things happen and things are made to happen by dimwits, for sure.


And might or might not represents probability, or likelihood or..........


And I refer to it as Alternative Intelligence....Because intelligence either is or isn't.


And so what is the likelihood of the likelihood of an organic blob being more universally important than it's alternative offspring?

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@zedvictor4
Things happen and things are made to happen by dimwits, for sure.
Individual ants are dumb, but they collect leaves { forage ] bring them back and create compost [ farming } that they then grows  fungus { farming } there food source.  LINK

And I refer to it as Alternative Intelligence....Because intelligence either is or isn't.
False, as there exist degrees of access to MetaSpace { Metaphysical-1 } mind/intellect/concepts. 

And so what is the likelihood of the likelihood of an organic blob being more universally important than it's alternative offspring?
Depends on the amount of inbreeding ---becomes more specialized---.   Human evolution is resultant of enough out-breeding to allow for access to mind/intellect/concepts ergo generalization and ability to adapt to many differrent environments and situations etc.

Why is economics ---root of ecology-- is consider monetary is kinda of weird, since capitalism { monetary } is root of waste/pollution of Earth.

Efficent, effective and most economical pathways forward also have to consider the ecological environment that sustains us, or else we are no better than the dimwitted ants { above }.






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@ebuc
Yes. Capitalism.

Hierarchical supply and demand.

Doesn't matter how it is dressed up.


And free from what?

Death is freedom from life.... Or more so, freedom from the stresses of consciousness.





ebuc
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@zedvictor4
And free from what?
The article is about free to make choices via capitalism.  Yeah, choice to be a manager and increase in hrs and stress.

At least managing your own company, your only under the thumb of the client and not a manager, whose motivations may be suspect sometimes.

A manager can make all the differrence whether you stay at your job, by your choice, or their choice and a manager/superviso can make your life hell, unnecessarily




426 days later

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If you're in the top half of earners, yes.
Shila
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Capitalism is so liberating even the Communist countries are embracing it.

12 days later

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I refuse to bother much to explain why capitalism sucks. It is not my job to educate people. Even if I did try to educate them, they would just ignore my words. They have done so before. The fact that they think they are free in capitalism shows that they are either retarded either part of the rich class. Anyway, in about 10-20 years when capitalism completely fails and world is in even greater chaos than right now, most people will suddenly switch to being commies. However, it will already be too late at that point. I dont care much about humans being wiped out. Considering what they have done, they deserved it.
My objection is that humans will say they didnt know. They always use the "i didnt know" excuse when faced with guilt. In their last days they will pretend they didnt know, just like when smokers pretend they didnt know smoking causes cancer. They knew it. They ignored it. They deserved it.
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@Best.Korea
I refuse to bother much to explain why capitalism sucks. It is not my job to educate people. Even if I did try to educate them, they would just ignore my words. They have done so before. The fact that they think they are free in capitalism shows that they are either retarded either part of the rich class. Anyway, in about 10-20 years when capitalism completely fails and world is in even greater chaos than right now, most people will suddenly switch to being commies. However, it will already be too late at that point. I dont care much about humans being wiped out. Considering what they have done, they deserved it.
My objection is that humans will say they didnt know. They always use the "i didnt know" excuse when faced with guilt. In their last days they will pretend they didnt know, just like when smokers pretend they didnt know smoking causes cancer. They knew it. They ignored it. They deserved it.
For someone who lost all his debates, you will hardly be a good choice even for communism.