Mister Chris is basically my only one tbh, but I'm still conflicted about him.
ask me more questions :/
Naruto Mafia DP2
Posts
Total:
450
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@Pattern
Personally I don't think my justification makes any sense, no.
You think it’s a coincidence that all of ours don’t match but Oro’s does? Did you read about my mod psyche theory?
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@MisterChris
Are you scumreading TUF/Lunatic/Pattern?
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@oromagi
Try turning your phone 90 degrees to landscape. That solves it on my iPhone.
Didn’t think of that. I’m a dumb dumb 🤡
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@Crocodile
Mister Chris is basically my only one tbh, but I'm still conflicted about him.ask me more questions :/
Why are you conflicted by him?
Why do you only seem to appear after a vote is placed on you?
Does your justification make sense?
How do you feel about Oro having the only justification that makes sense?
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@ILikePie5
I was convinced he wasn't scum, but if he starts to get tunnel vision on me that might change.
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@MisterChris
Link me your arguments, I couldn't find them in the DP
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@Pattern
Are you scumreading MisterChris atm?
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@ILikePie5
Frankly the only thing that convinced me was his self-vote in last day phase. That easily could have been a calculated effort to change our minds... But for now I will not throw accusations his way.
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@MisterChris
Frankly the only thing that convinced me was his self-vote in last day phase. That easily could have been a calculated effort to change our minds... But for now I will not throw accusations his way.
Ok. Lemme ask you this: should your indecisiveness make everyone townread you?
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@BearMan
Arguments in response to Pattern:
Arguments in response to you:
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@MisterChris
Thanks, I'll read 'em
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@ILikePie5
I appear because I get mentioned in votes on me, no one else mentions me.
I frequently forget about mafia games, so sorry.
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@ILikePie5
Lemme ask you this: should your indecisiveness make everyone townread you?
Not throwing a counter-accusation when he accuses me could be a reason to townread me, I suppose. Frankly, though, the only reason I'm not throwing a counter-accusation is because I'm too wound up from arguing with him to make a good judgement right now and I recognize that. If I didn't, I would be playing the same game BearMan and Pattern played last day phase and I'd like to avoid that. Later I am going to reexamine his behavior and see if there is anything that suggests his previous self-vote was just a ruse, but for now I'm not making any judgements.
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@BearMan
no problemo
I personally don't think MisterChris is mafia, he just seems a little bit awkward at the moment. I have a good guess at what he is, but since it's obviously going to be detrimental to the town if I say it, I won't.
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@BearMan
but since it's obviously going to be detrimental to the town if I say it, I won't.
...
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@ILikePie5
You think it’s a coincidence that all of ours don’t match but Oro’s does? Did you read about my mod psyche theory?
No. Just because the link doesn't make sense to us, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to supa. I can see a world where mine makes sense to maybe supa for example, but explicitly the way it is described to me it doesn't make sense. Looking in the graveyard we can see a difference in the two flips for example.
Look at Sakura's justification. The description doesn't seem to match the role in the slightest. It talks about her appreciating Naruto more after Sasuke get's kidnapped, then randomly she is a weak hider.
Then Gaara's role makes much more sense, his motives are all about killing and so is his role.
Basically the role links might only make sense to supa. That or he does what I do, and will BS a description to balance it the way he wants. In stormlight archive I wanted a watcher, so BS'ed a description for Wit to be a watcher, even though there are probably more appropriate theme related roles for him. I am okay with mod-psyching to an extent, but things like these seem a little harder to look into, and I find we are often wrong when figuring them out. In your game I remember people were way off with the split, myself included. It's hard to know what goes on in the mods mind. That said figuring out a theme split might be easier than finding a difference in this way.
Also why would mafia get a different role PM set up than town? I figure if there was a difference in role set ups, mafia would have been aware of it. It's more likely even if he is scum, he didn't stretch the role set up much. Giving oro some credit here for not being a total duntz. It's a good theory, I just don't know if I buy it all that much no offense. You may still be right about oro just for the wrong reasons. Look at what supa tried doing in the last game with his egg mcmuffin theory lol. He was wrong about his theory, even though I was scum.
Are you scumreading MisterChris atm?
Yes; I'll repeat the main reasons clearly for you:
1. Non-commital
He was one of the only people who didn't vote by the end of the day phase though it seemed he was online since his last post was just before speed claimed. He seemed very non-committal to me, and I don't get the vibe that he has any interest in figuring the game out. This is his first game, so I take that into account, but I also take him to be one of the more logical and thorough individuals, and I don't feel like he was even trying to scum hunt. After my lynch didn't seem plausible he had posted a few times about how exhaustive the phase was, but ultimately just didn't seem to be burning any reads.
2. Attempting to earn undeserved town cred with speed
In post 25, he says "RIP Speed. I TOLD YOU GUYS"
I mean to make it sound like he argued for him being innocent tooth and nail just isn't true. I looked into the end of that day phase to make sure.
"It's not ideal.. But I want to give Grey the opportunity to give us information through his tracking ability, and I also don't quite buy needing to lynch speed"
Not quite buying the need to lynch speed = / = arguing his innocence lol.
Then he was even considering lynching him! So this is a lie in general.
"Alright, maybe. But I'll only seriously consider a vote if it's clear Speed is going to be lynched. Get some more support and I'll be tempted (like 1-2 votes away). As much as I'd hate to vote without much evidence, if the town is in universal agreement I don't really see a reason for my biases to stand in the way."
If he was so convinced he was town why would he say this at all? From my perspective it looks like he wasn't too phased that he was about to be lynched at all, so trying to use his lack of vote on him as evidence that he is town does the opposite for me lol.
3. His vote on me last day phase when I went after bear is another one.
He mentioned he also thought That1user was a doctor, and didn't want to say anything publicly because it would be anti-town to do so, yet when I voted bear for ousting the doctor, he seemed to act all perplexed about my reasoning, accused me of tunnel vision while acknowledging my reasons were correct, and refusing to acknowledge bears defensiveness and later admittal to this being anti-town via responses.
4. Conspiracy theory point: He still thought that1user was a doctor, and that1user died
That1user did eventually say he wasn't the doctor, though I think I am one of the only ones that caught that in the midst of all the dialouge. MisterChris was still saying he thought that1user was the doctor by the end of the day phase. With that1user being killed, that looks bad for him. As for the other scum its possible they are among the many lurkers or also didn't catch it. If this is the case, it looks good for you pie. I'll admit this is among one of the weaker points, but still something that is bugging me.
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@ILikePie5
okay, either way i scumread ragnar.
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@MisterChris
I was convinced he wasn't scum, but if he starts to get tunnel vision on me that might change.
It might seem more tunnel vision than it actually is because I am back and forthing with you. I have several scum reads, you are one of the top ones, but I don't know if that means you are the day's lynch. Also I would have to sell the other townies on you which seems like an uphill battle atm. I full fledged am skeptical of you though, if you think that is tunnel vision your welcome to counter me. But your arguments haven't swayed my position on your behavior up until this point.
Though I will say I think it's Ironic that you are threatening to counter vote me here, after all the talk of how much I was "OMGUS'ing" yesterday.
Also I had no reason to mention you this day phase also, if I was scum, targeting you is not the ideal mislynch option. I haven't been viewed as especially persuasive in this game, so pursuing you makes almost no sense from a scum perspective.
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@Pattern
I said I wouldn't countervote unless you gave me more valid reason to. It's not a threat... Pie literally asked what I thought of you.
I full fledged am skeptical of you though, if you think that is tunnel vision your welcome to counter me.
I don't think it is. It hasn't crossed the line yet.
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@MisterChris
Alright, let's sum up your argument here.In order for me to have "argued against a Speedrace lynching" I had to have:1. Fought tooth and nail against it2. Denounced everyone who hopped on board.3. Not reserved the possibility of me being wrong.Clearly this is ridiculous. I think what you're seeing is me being not entirely certain in either way. Truth is, I was 70-30 in favor of Speed.
The posts you made don't indicate that you cared overtly one way or the other if he was lynched, and your final post in regards to the matter indicated you were willing to lynch him expands on that. There are no specific pre-requisite's for arguing against a lynch, so I am ignoring that. If you had a 30% potential for voting speed, you can't logically jump in and say "I told you guys". The only reason someone would say something like that is if they were much more certain of someone's innocence.
A very mild form of lamentation.
Debatable. It isn't from my perspective. But as an argument that you didn't mean to sound that confident, maybe I can buy that. I'll have to consider. Until now, your doubling down on it has caused me to doubt this, where if you said this in the beginning it would have been an easier point to swallow.
You're reading into this way too much. Again: you too often use debatable logic to come to grand conclusions... you often REALLY push a narrative on little evidence.
The conclusions become grander based on the responses to them. I am 100% okay with being wrong, and I accept that the logic isn't impenetrable in every situation. In bear's case, the reason I came to scum read him harder was his OMGUS reaction and how he just counter voted so easy. In your case it seems like you were denying that you were in favor of lynching him at all, though in this last post your tone seems to have changed a bit on the matter. I tend to town read humility.
This entire game is simulating the proceedings of a jury... Even if it is not formal, I should hope that decisions are evidence-based. You act as if psychological evidence is not evidence. It is. The problem is, though, there needs to be a pattern of behavior. Taking a couple posts and extrapolating gargantuan claims is not psychological analysis, it is assumption.
I am not claiming that any of this logic is hard hitting enough for a death sentence, if I were, I'd be voting you now. Yes this is an assumption, I am explaining the reasons why I have come to the point where I am assuming what I am and you are arguing why you feel my assumption is wrong. If you feel this is gargantuan, it's because you are responding to it as if it is. I view this conversation more as me explaining where I am coming from to someone who doesn't understand, than some massive lynch attempt against you. Big posts often get mis-interpreted as that. I always try to reply to everything, just in my nature since way back on DDO. Not just mafia, any conversation.
It really wasn't my intention to fish for town cred initially with my first comment (i.e. post 25. RIP Speed. I TOLD YOU GUYS).The second one was in defense of myself. If defending myself is fishing for "town cred", I don't exactly see this being an exclusive scum strat. You apply pressure to me and you think I am NOT going to try to get the town's trust?
The "I told you guys" statement happened before I posted that I was still interested in hearing from you this day phase btw. The speed situation for town cred had nothing to do with me though.
Sure. Fair point. Just maybe reallocate your efforts to where they are actually useful.
I am exploring many different areas, if it appears I am only talking to you it's because your the only one responding. I think a back and forth with crocodile would be very revealing, but he's nowhere to be found, so I am having a discussion with my other scum read who happens to be better at responding.
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@Pattern
Alright, I'm going to ceasefire for now. I'm obviously not convincing you no matter what I say
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@MisterChris
Bruh you can't just go ceasefire in the middle of an investigation
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@BearMan
The conversation was getting redundant. There's only so much forum war I'll stomach in one day... I got shit to do man.
If you have anything new to contribute then by all means fire away.
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@Pattern
For why I RBed pie
Typing from my phone, I can expand on anything later when I’m at home.
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@Crocodile
I appear because I get mentioned in votes on me, no one else mentions me.I frequently forget about mafia games, so sorry.
You still haven’t answered my questions
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@Pattern
Giving oro some credit here for not being a total duntz. It's a good theory, I just don't know if I buy it all that much no offense. You may still be right about oro just for the wrong reasons. Look at what supa tried doing in the last game with his egg mcmuffin theory lol. He was wrong about his theory, even though I was scum.
Ya, it just popped out to me so I’d thought I’d ask for a second opinion.
Vote Count
iLikePie5 [2/6] Ragnar, oromagi
Crocodile [2/6] Pattern, BearMan
Ragnar [1/6] GreyParrot
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@oromagi
I am off to a BBQ. Further updates tonight will be conditional on degree of sobriety.
I for one would be happy to see a drunk analysis.