Lucifer & Jesus

Author: Stephen

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#31
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@RationalMadman
I know it a lot but not entirely, don't want to waste my life on a fictional tale.


I can't say I blame you. It is a long slog (years in fact) and it will engulf you if you let it because it has so many strands and stories withing stories. I'm lucky,  I happen to love the subject and wallow in it. But I am not in the slightest a religious person, which helps. 
Mind how you go.
#32
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@zedvictor4
false.
#33
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@Dr.Franklin
But your not prepared to qualify your monosyllabic answers.

So Stephen and I rest on our laurels.
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#34
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@Dr.Franklin

false.

What is false about this, doc? 


@zedvictor4 Wrote: Therefore I conclude that Stephen and I are correct and you are incorrect.

Indeed , Vic. 

And the term "knew" or knowing" is used when there wasn't any  "knowing"  going on too. Look at these verses concerning Mary and Joseph and the infant Jesus seeded by a god doing a bit more "knowing".


Matthew 1:20-25. because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit , [the lord] 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,
24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

And if this isn't enough to convince the Doc then is all he has to do is compare those exact verses Matthew 1:24-25 with any other bible.

Ex: New Living Translation Matthew 1:24-25
25. But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.

So old Joe didn't or  couldn't "know " his wife until after the Lord ( again)  had somehow "knew" her first.

  Now I don't know what you think,  Vic, but this is so, so reminiscent of the very first instance about "knowing" where a Lord " knew" a human female and she begat a child from him.  " I have gotten a man from the Lord. " said Eve. #14

Now I can tell you without doubt that the garden of Eden story is all about sexual intercourse and the seduction of Eve by the serpent Lord himself who was a "son of the god". And these sons of god didn't stop there, they kept "knowing" daughters of men which was taboo, yet it was the earthly man (not the woman it seems) who was evicted from his home.
4  when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.Genesis 6:4

Interesting how it appears  that only the man was driven out and no mention of the woman - his wife having been expelled along with him.


“The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword .  Genesis 3:21-24.  ( Nothing seems to have changed there to this day, does it.)


Indeed, and so against all the laws of their own fathers, the son's of the gods  did all the "knowing" ,  and mankind has paid for their crimes ever since. 

You just couldn't make it up could you , Vic? 

#35
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@Dr.Franklin
Sorry... I put your and not you're....It irks me to make this basic error.
#36
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@zedvictor4
no.
#37
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@Stephen
everything
#38
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@zedvictor4
not true
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#39
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@RationalMadman

At least admit I inspired you on that theory..........Stephen has stolen my idea that Lucifer is Jesus.

Well the forum coward fauxlaw has demolished that bullshit for me when he quite rightly said : 


Unfortunately, your earliest post of Feb 2019 follows, at least, by 27 years, or 2,000 years, the first century Gnosticism, some of whom alleged that Lucifer is Jesus. An Encyclopaedia of Occultism: A Compendium of Information on the Occult Sciences, Occult Personalities, Psychic Science, Magic, Demonology, Spiritism, Mysticism, and Metaphysics, Lewis Spence, 1993. #24


But  I have pointed out , Jesus   (if the bible and Christian theologians are to be believed) , himself said it .  So that would be at least 2,000 years before your "idea"? 

See for yourself>>>

OT :Isaiah 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! 

 Jesus  calls himself;

"  the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.” (Revelation 22:16)…

I personally  don't know what to make of it all and the Christians have given it a wide birth as far as any discussion goes. I suppose it is a bit embarrassing for them to discuss or even too difficult for them to explain away and play down, which is their usual modus operandi when it comes to prickly awkward questions concerning such highlighted ambiguous biblical verses.


#40
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@Stephen
What he links to suggests that Satan is God. I will concede that for many that inherently follows on mean that Jesus is Lucifer.
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#41
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@RationalMadman
  I take back that you copied me, you came to the conclusion yourself most likely.

I have accepted you apology here >>>  #42   Please read it carefully.



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#42
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Melcharaz, wrote>    he is refrenced as son of the morning.
Well I just referenced  again and BIBLICALLY it states this>>> 

Revelation 22: 16 kjv .  I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Isaiah 14:12 Niv
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
    morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
    you who once laid low the nations!

 So either the scriptures are at fault, or you are. which is it?

Melcharaz, wrote>   niv is not very good. You didnt even try to look at the hebrew. I guess the truth doesnt matter to you.


So then the bible is wrong. Which in turn throws more heavy doubt onto the whole of the English version of the scriptures. Bringing them into serious question and dispute

40 days later

#43
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@RationalMadman
how about this

lucifer and jesus are both from God, so if they are refereed to waht they are, then that doesnt mean they are the same, they just have a connection, which they do!

also cain and abel came from adam and eve, yet they hated each other, so did Jacob and Ezau!

i think theres a pattern here of people coming from the same background but not getting along and REPRESENTING different things
#44
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@Dr.Franklin
Cain was not Adam's son, the serpent and Eve reproduced to have Cain. 

That comparison is accurate and shows even further how complex the storyline is.
#45
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@RationalMadman
that is very wrong
#46
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@Dr.Franklin
No. Why else do you think Cain was so innately sinister?
#47
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@RationalMadman
the twin dilemma, the duality of man

9 days later

#48
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@Dr.Franklin
the twin dilemma, the duality of man
Deep Doc, very deep.
#49
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@ethang5
yup..