What Would Have Happened To This Woman If Jesus Hadn't Have Stepped In?

Author: Stephen

Posts

Total: 48
#31
CaptainSceptic
CaptainSceptic's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 80
0
0
10
CaptainSceptic's avatar
CaptainSceptic
0
0
10
-->
@BrotherDThomas
@fauxlaw
FAuxlaw

what aere my half-=assed beliefs [you must know wha tthey are to make the claim they're half-assed], and which huge chunk of the Bible am I ignring since I've read all of it in four different languages. Match that, or maybe you're missing the chunks. You're waiting for clarity as if it was a parade?

Can you translate what you just said please?   It looks like a cross between Klingon and Valyerian.  I am not as multi-linguistically learned as you, so just plane English would be appreciated.  

BrotherDThomas,  I have no idea how you made heads or tails of that.  You did bring up a great point.  I have not seen a single 'christian' talk about their denomination.   But why?   Are they embarrassed?


Thank you 
#32
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Stephen
@CaptainSceptic


STEPHEN'S APROPOS POST OBVIOUSLY REGARDING FAUXLAW:  "Unless you have the lungs of a Polynesian pearl diver, do not hold your breath."

Priceless, LOL!


CAPTAINSCEPTIC, YOUR QUOTE TO ME RELATIVE TO THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE CHALLENGED FAUXLAW: "BrotherDThomas,  I have no idea how you made heads or tails of that."

Well, the last time I saw mumbo, jumbo, gumbo wording like what FAUXLAW has brought forth, was when I visited my late uncle Hubert that used to live under the staircase in the back of my Aunt Mildred's farm house in Canandaigua, New York, just before she committed him to the Willard Asylum for the Chronic Insane, which was a short drive to Ovid New York at the time.  


FAUXLAW'S CONVOLUTED QUOTE: "what aere my half-=assed beliefs [you must know wha tthey are to make the claim they're half-assed], and which huge chunk of the Bible am I ignring since I've read all of it in four different languages. Match that, or maybe you're missing the chunks. You're waiting for clarity as if it was a parade?"

I tried to decipher in what it said, firstly, it was something about an "aere" that FAUXLAW had that was a half of something, equaling an "assed" relating to beliefs or something like that. Then using a bracket "[" is maybe a modified letter "C?"  The following sentence is gibberish that I truly didn't understand, and reminds me of my Uncle Hubert passing me notes from under the kitchen table that had the same abracadabra wordage to them.  Then if you closely read the next sentence, it is something about a "chunk" of the Bible that FAUXLAW was "ignring," assuming that he was proud of in allegedly knowing 4 languages, huh?  I would think that FAUXLAW would learn English first before  "trying" to learn another language.

Then FAUXLAW follows up by stating "match that," possibly meaning that he wants to show his prowess towards women by being on Match.com which is a dating site? Huh? ..... Then FAUXLAW goes on to mention "chunks" again, where this time he might have thrown up at the time of him writing his post? I dunno. Then FAUXLAW finishes with somehow relating "Clarity" with a "Parade?" WTF!  This notion is reminiscent of my Uncle Hubert not being too clear on what parade he was watching, where one time he thought the Christmas Parade in town was a Halloween Parade, where he went around grabbing little children to find candy!  We settled with the police afterwards. :(


In any event, I hope that FAUXLAW'S jabberwocky post is not a sign from Jesus putting a curse upon him (Genesis 12:3) because of him Satanically trying all the time in rewriting His JUDEO-Christian Bible! 


.

Topic's author
#33
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
Another hit and hide piece from  @FAUXLAW


what aere my half-=assed beliefs [you must know wha tthey are to make the claim they're half-assed], and which huge chunk of the Bible am I ignring since I've read all of it in four different languages. Match that, or maybe you're missing the chunks. You're waiting for clarity as if it was a parade?

 With all of your alleged "training in ancient biblical languages" you have still managed to get your spirits confused.

1 Corinthians 6:10 lNor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


  SEVEN (7)  POSTS ON MY THREAD And you still haven't answered the question in the op. 

What Would Have Happened To This Woman If Jesus Hadn't Have Stepped In?
Topic's author
#34
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Singularity

It is clear. He walked with a posse of men. This is well documented. They would have gotten fucked up. ......... He was challenged repeatedly, but they didn't cross the line because they would have gotten fucked up.



I take it you have never read John 8, OR John 10, then. Where Jesus and  ` had to do a runner` as they say these days? 

"At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds".  Nope, no mention of his sword wielding posse coming to the rescue.

"Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp".  Where was the "sword wielding posse", here then?

"Again the Jews there picked up stones to kill Jesus. but he escaped across the river Jordan" . And a big fat bold underlined  NOPE again, the absence of the now famous "sword wielding posse" is very noticeable.


nobody raised a hand to him because he traveled with an army
I see. 

#35
Singularity
Singularity's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 1,013
2
3
8
Singularity's avatar
Singularity
2
3
8
-->
@Stephen
I noticed you still have not accepted my debate challenge. You must know you will lose. 


I can issue another challenge where we can debate whether Jesus had disciples or not who follow him around and whether or not they are ever recorded as being armed

Topic's author
#36
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Singularity
Jesus had disciples or not who follow him around and whether or not they are ever recorded as being armed
And I haven't disputed that. LEARN TO READ.  I am suggesting that you have not read these scriptures as thoroughly has you pretend. It is quite obvious from the above incidents above at  #34  that his disciples were not all present with Jesus  all of the time or they were not prepared to use those arms unless instructed. I have told you, Jesus' mission was all about TIMING!!!!   For anyone of his followers to cause any bloodshed before " his time had come"  would have meant instant death for all of them. This is made perfectly clear throughout gospels. But numbskulls with amoeba brains would probably miss this very important point.

 And I did point out to you this little biblical dilemma did I not? >>>>>>

AT Luke 22:36 Jesus gives instruction  his "posse" >>>>> Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
But then Jesus also says at  Matthew 26:52   “Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword ".  One just has to laugh at times, don't they?  I know I do.

Interesting don't ya think?  Buy a sword but don't use it or you'll die by it?  These are the little contradictions that theists like to ignore and pretend they have never seen, even when pointed out to them, like I have  had to do so, for you.



I noticed you still have not accepted my debate challenge. You must know you will lose. 

Indeed. And I have offered to take you up in a thread of your creation right  here in the open forum. But you seem extremely reluctant to do so. I have never done a debate since I joined here and have said I have no intention of starting now.  

 
HOWEVER! 
 You must keep missing this offer>>>> 

My genuine offer still stands and I will keep reminding you that it still stands. Start your own  thread, I will join you as soon as you have done so. SO  for the SIXTH  time!!!!!! >>>

Why don't you start a thread of your own  supporting  ALL of your claims that Jesus died on the cross and came back to life and was " witnessed by thousands"   of people

Start by supporting this wild claim of yours>> #31

->@Singularity wrote; " What we do know is that Jesus Christ died, was resurrected 3 days later and he was seen by thousands of people after his death, proving his supernatural ability and godhood". 

Now,  off you go.  Start your own  thread, I will join you as soon as you have done so.  It shouldn't take you too long to gather your supporting  evidence  that supports your Sunday school story.


#37
Singularity
Singularity's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 1,013
2
3
8
Singularity's avatar
Singularity
2
3
8
-->
@Stephen
Indeed. And I have offered to take you up in a thread of your creation right  here in the open forum. But you seem extremely reluctant to do so. I have never done a debate since I joined here and have said I have no intention of starting now.  
If you are afraid to debate your beliefs why. are you on a debate site? You have the right to believe what you want and to sit here and not put your beliefs to the test, but if you are too much of a pussy to do a debate because you know you will lose, why are you here?


I will tell you what, there is an option to pick the judges of the debate. How about you pick 5 atheist judges who are experienced debaters so they know how to properly judge a debate, you will have the advantage and then we debate? Come on are you too much of a pussy to debate me, even with bias in your position? 

You know the whole point of the forums is to see who disagrees with some of the stuff you say and then you debate them on the areas of disagreement to see who is right


#38
Singularity
Singularity's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 1,013
2
3
8
Singularity's avatar
Singularity
2
3
8
-->
@Stephen
Start by supporting this wild claim of yours>> #31
Like I said, 1 corinthians 15. It talks about 50 . 100 is just an estimate of mine. We have multiple siting gs with small crowds listed one sighting with 500. 

You don't dispute the 500 though. How many people need to witness an event for you? If I proved it was 1000, would that be enough for you to believe Jesus rose from the dead? 

#39
Singularity
Singularity's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 1,013
2
3
8
Singularity's avatar
Singularity
2
3
8
Stephen still refuses to debate because he knows he will lose
Topic's author
#40
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Singularity
Indeed. And I have offered to take you up in a thread of your creation right  here in the open forum. But you seem extremely reluctant to do so. I have never done a debate since I joined here and have said I have no intention of starting now.  
If you are afraid to debate your beliefs why.

I am not afraid to discuss and argue my claims or opinions. I am doing that right now, on this open and transparent forum, for all to witness. If you have a problem with that then simply  start your own thread on your own beliefs.   YOU KEEP MISSING THIS FOR SOME REASON>>


My genuine offer still stands and I will keep reminding you that it still stands. Start your own  thread, I will join you as soon as you have done so. SO  for the SEVENTH  time!!!!!! >>>

Why don't you start a thread of your own  supporting  ALL of your claims that Jesus died on the cross and came back to life and was " witnessed by thousands"   of people



are you on a debate site?


Are you incapable of reading.



You have the right to believe what you want and to sit here and not put your beliefs to the test,

I am putting YOURS and MY OWN beliefs to the test right here in open forum. Until now, you haven't  offered a single piece of evidence that supports your claims where as I have.  and you are forgetting what this thread about. It concerns two questions that require simple answers . It took you ten billion posts that had nothing to do with the actual subject before you actually got around to answering the question.



but if you are too much of a pussy ,


a "pussy" that knows AND understands these scriptures far,far better that you will ever live to know and understand. I have refused your offer of debate THREE TIMES NOW, . I am here if you want to discuss my biblical issues and I am still waiting for you to start your own thread on this open transparent forum  to discuss your claims, that is what this forum is built for.


why are you here?

Why shouldn't I be here? why are you here on this forum?


I will tell you what, there is an option to pick the judges of the debate.

You must keep missing this offer>>>> 

My genuine offer still stands and I will keep reminding you that it still stands. Start your own  thread, I will join you as soon as you have done so. SO  for the SIXTH  time!!!!!! >>>

Why don't you start a thread of your own  supporting  ALL of your claims that Jesus died on the cross and came back to life and was " witnessed by thousands"   of people

Start by supporting this wild claim of yours>> #31

->@Singularity wrote; " What we do know is that Jesus Christ died, was resurrected 3 days later and he was seen by thousands of people after his death, proving his supernatural ability and godhood". 




You know the whole point of the forums is to see who disagrees with some of the stuff you say and then you debate them on the areas of disagree

Which can all be done on an open transparent forum, such as the one that you are posting on.


1 corinthians 15. It talks about 50 . 100 is just an estimate of mine. We have multiple siting gs with small crowds listed one sighting with 500. 

You don't dispute the 500 though. How many people need to witness an event for you? If I proved it was 1000, would that be enough for you to believe Jesus rose from the dead? 


How many  times ??? Start your own thread one the  matter offering evidence that supports your claim  and I will GLADLY join you. Or don't you know how to start a thread of your own?





#41
DeusVult
DeusVult's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 107
0
1
1
DeusVult's avatar
DeusVult
0
1
1
-->
@Stephen
Nothing.  I have heard it postulated that they only apprehended the woman in order to bring her to Jesus (where was the man?  he would have been equally guilty).  In other instances you see that the Pharisees know that a woman is a prostitute, but don't try to kill her.  She was just a pawn whose intended use was to discredit Jesus.

Had she not been brought before Jesus she would have lived out her days in sin and likely gone to hell.
Topic's author
#42
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@DeusVult
Nothing. 

 How do you know? The mosaic law was clear. Death by stoning for adultery.


I have heard it postulated that they only apprehended the woman in order to bring her to Jesus (where was the man?  he would have been equally guilty). 
One can postulate  for eternity but  sentence would have been the same for him.


In other instances you see that the Pharisees know that a woman is a prostitute,
More postulation.? But an adulterous "prostitute" then.  We don't know she was a prostitute, the scriptures do not say.  It has been postulated that this so called "prostitute" was Mary Magdalene, one of Jesus' followers and the first person to visit the empty tomb. So was all of the adultery story invented so we could see Jesus  display his wisdom using one of his many female followers to play the part of the adulterous prostitute?  Were the questioners really  Jesus' followers dressed as Pharisee priests?


but don't try to kill her.  

That's correct, they don't , but the law said they should have, doesn't it



She was just a pawn whose intended use was to discredit Jesus.
Or a actress playing the part of an adulteress so Jesus can display his worldly wisdom?



Had she not been brought before Jesus she would have lived out her days in sin and likely gone to hell.
Not if she was a real adulteress, she wouldn't have. The mosaic law states clearly that she  AND HE should be put to death.

#43
DeusVult
DeusVult's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 107
0
1
1
DeusVult's avatar
DeusVult
0
1
1
-->
@Stephen
 How do you know? The mosaic law was clear. Death by stoning for adultery.
The right for the Sanhedrin to carry out capital punishment had been removed in 6 A.D. when Rome downgraded the status of Judea from a kingdom to a Roman Province.


One can postulate  for eternity but  sentence would have been the same for him.
It is more than postulation. 

"Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act." - John 8:4

How did they catch her in the very act?  They were obviously waiting for this to happen.  The fact that they didn't also bring the man shows that they were not there for the purpose of upholding the law but catching Jesus in a trap he could not escape.

If he said don't stone her, he would be breaking Mosaic Law.  If he said stone her, he would be breaking Roman Law and also acting against his message of mercy.

We don't know she was a prostitute, the scriptures do not say.
Now one of the Pharisees was requesting Him to dine with him, and He entered the Pharisee’s house and reclined at the table. And there was a woman in the city who was a sinner; and when she learned that He was reclining at the table in the Pharisee’s house, she brought an alabaster vial of perfume, and standing behind Him at His feet, weeping, she began to wet His feet with her tears, and kept wiping them with the hair of her head, and kissing His feet and anointing them with the perfume. Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet He would know who and what sort of person this woman is who is touching Him, that she is a sinner.” - Luke 7:36-39

Or a actress playing the part of an adulteress so Jesus can display his worldly wisdom?
Now that is one serious actress!  Someone willing to get stoned to death in order to play a part.  We just don't have people these days who take the craft so seriously.

That is a ridiculous argument.  It was the Pharisees who brought her to Jesus, and not someone whom Jesus presented to the people.

Not if she was a real adulteress, she wouldn't have. The mosaic law states clearly that she  AND HE should be put to death.
As previously noted, the Jews were an occupied people and the Romans had removed the right of the Sanhedrin unilaterally meet and carry out a death sentence.
Topic's author
#44
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@DeusVult

 How do you know? The mosaic law was clear. Death by stoning for adultery.
The right for the Sanhedrin to carry out capital punishment had been removed in 6 A.D. when Rome downgraded the status of Judea from a kingdom to a Roman Province.

I have heard this a few times but never seen any factual evidence for this being the case. 

And you are missing my point. If it is as Peterson's 'guide' suggests, this then casts serious doubt on the biblical stories of stoning to death of Stephen, the intended stoning of the adulteress and the two attempts made to stone Christ. In fact Peterson's `guide ' makes a mockery of Mathews gospel. Acts 7:54-60. John 8:59. John 10:25-39. John 8:1-11.
What's more, If it is as you and  Peterson's 'guide' suggests, that the  Pharisees Jews had  their right to carry out corporal punishment removed, then they would have been committing high crimes against the state of Rome. <<<<< let that sink in a while.

And  for you or Peterson to offer as evidence a verse from  historian  Josephus goes nowhere in proving that the Jewish Elders had had their power to carry out the punishment of death by stoning . Is all the verse tells us is that Archelaus was given the powers to sentence people to death. Nothing surprising about that.

Josephus tells us:  “Now Archelaus’s part of Judea was reduced into a province, and Coponius, one of theequestrian order among the Romans, was sent as a procurator, having the power of [life and]death put into his hands by Caesar” (Josephus, Wars of the Jews, Book II 8:1).

It mentions nothing concerning the Jews having their right to carry out their Mosaic law of capital punishment revoked.
It is an old argument that has never ever been established as fact.





One can postulate  for eternity but  sentence would have been the same for him.
It is more than postulation. 

"Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act." - John 8:4

How did they catch her in the very act?  They were obviously waiting for this to happen. 

Opinion.  It could - as I have already mentioned -  just have all been a set up for Jesus to show his worldly wisdom /compassion. 


The fact that they didn't also bring the man shows that they were not there for the purpose of upholding the law but catching Jesus in a trap he could not escape.

No. It proves nothing. One could speculate that the man had got away, he could have bribed the  Pharisee. He could have even  been a member of the Sanhedrin so the Elders turned a blind eye.  This is not to mention that this was a "man's world' where women were near as second class citizens and the man, being a man was simply let go. You see, we can all speculate and postulate. All the above are possible but WE DON'T KNOW!   


If he said don't stone her, he would be breaking Mosaic Law.

Correct. maybe that is why he chose his words. Maybe.


  If he said stone her, he would be breaking Roman Law
We don't know that.   And why are you still ignoring those examples of stoning and attempted stoning I gave you above twice now. Besides, if you are seriously suggesting this then you are telling me that either the Pharisee didn't know or Jesus didn't know  or neither didn't know that this was breaking the law of Rome ( according to you & Peterson's guide).  Do you not see how silly that argument actually is.



We don't know she was a prostitute, the scriptures do not say.
Now one of the Pharisees was requesting Him to dine with him, and He entered the Pharisee’s house and reclined at the table. And there was a woman in the city who was a sinner; and when she learned that He was reclining at the table in the Pharisee’s house, she brought an alabaster vial of perfume, and standing behind Him at His feet, weeping, she began to wet His feet with her tears, and kept wiping them with the hair of her head, and kissing His feet and anointing them with the perfume. Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet He would know who and what sort of person this woman is who is touching Him, that she is a sinner.” - Luke 7:36-39
What is that supposed to prove. 

The woman with the alabaster jar is believed by many scholars to have been the Magdalene. She also in another gospel anointed his head too. The woman in John's Gospel is  is Mary the sister of Martha and Lazarus. In Mark and Matthew she is unnamed. For one to be "living a sinful life" could mean anything in those times, especially to a Pharisee priest. 



Or a actress playing the part of an adulteress so Jesus can display his worldly wisdom?
Now that is one serious actress!  Someone willing to get stoned to death in order to play a part.  We just don't have people these days who take the craft so seriously.

Who knows. Your opinion means no more than mine as do your guesses, assumptions. theories and postulations.




Not if she was a real adulteress, she wouldn't have. The mosaic law states clearly that she  AND HE should be put to death.
As previously noted, the Jews were an occupied people and the Romans had removed the right of the Sanhedrin unilaterally meet and carry out a death sentence.

And as I have previously stated. There is no factual evidence that the Jewish Elders had had  their right to stone blasphemers to death revoked.



#45
DeusVult
DeusVult's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 107
0
1
1
DeusVult's avatar
DeusVult
0
1
1
-->
@Stephen
And as I have previously stated. There is no factual evidence that the Jewish Elders had had  their right to stone blasphemers to death revoked.
We've dealt with that in the other thread where Josephus shows that the Sanhedrin had their ability to meet without approval revoked.  Since they cannot provide a death sentence without it, their ability to sentence someone to death was effectively removed. 

So this argument is done as well.
Topic's author
#46
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@DeusVult
And as I have previously stated. There is no factual evidence that the Jewish Elders had had  their right to stone blasphemers to death revoked.
We've dealt with that in the other thread where Josephus shows that the Sanhedrin had their ability to meet without approval revoked.

To meet without approval is not the same as having your right to carry out mosaic law revoked BY ROME!!! FFS . I keep telling you;   this would make no difference to the point I have to keep making anyway.    The gospels THEMSELVES state clearly that they did carry out the death sentence in Jesus' time AND while under Roman rule. And they attempted to stone the Christ twice, while under ROMAN RULE . And intended to stone an adulteress WHILE UNDER ROMAN RULE OR THE GOSPELS WRITERS ARE FKN LYING!!!!!

Are these stories in the gospels OR NOT???? AND are they true or not? 




 their ability to sentence someone to death was effectively removed. 

BY WHO?? I have  shown you that ROME didn't revoke their right to carry out the death sentence. BUT YOU KEEP INSISTING that ROME had removed their rights carry out the death sentence.>>>>>>>>#43  

Stephen wrote: How do you know? The mosaic law was clear. Death by stoning for adultery.
->@DeusVult wrote: The right for the Sanhedrin to carry out capital punishment had been removed in 6 A.D. when Rome downgraded the status of Judea from a kingdom to a Roman Province.
 
In Jerusalem itself, where the Roman Governor himself resided, the Sanhedrin would be risking their own lives by disobeying Roman law and putting Jesus to death.

AND IN ANY CASE - If what you say above was indeed the case, then as I have already explained to you,  this would make the stories from the gospels to be fabrications and outright lies. 

YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!!!!


236 days later

#47
Jasmine
Jasmine's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 126
0
3
6
Jasmine's avatar
Jasmine
0
3
6
Yeah, he saved her life.

23 days later

Topic's author
#48
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Jasmine
Yeah, he saved her life.

That appears to be the case, doesn't it.  So one has to ask then why didn't those priests and members of the council simply  carry out out the death sentence regardless?

They had absolutely no loyalty to Jesus. They had no reason to even address , ponder or take into account to what he said. They didn't believe who Jesus was and  they were plotting to have him killed anyway. so why take a single bit of notice to him? 

Jesus had also said he hadn't come to destroy what was written in law. Are you suggesting that all of a sudden these people suddenly decided to have a pang of conscience and decided there and then to disregard thousand of years worth of  gods established law  that they had been practicing for thousands of years?

So what do you believe stopped them carrying out the law of Moses? and their god?