I don't see how you can fit over 13 million animals into a volume 1/3 the size of the titanic, which is smaller than almost all cruses.
Noah's ark doesn't make sense
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54
its regional and was scientifically proven
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@Dr.Franklin
The site doesn't provide evidence and it says that the flood happened around 4000 years before when the Bible claims it did (2000 BCE). Moreover, I don't think there is enough space for all the animals and the food that they would need.
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@Alec
Well you know you aren't required to believe it, it won't change your relation or beliefs in God. So, it doesn't really matter whether it happened or not. That doesn't mean there is no useful information in the Bible either, but you aren't required to believe in the Noah's Ark account as a literal account.
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@Alec
The Bible never claimed 2000 BC, what verse are you referring to?
So the ark doesn't make sense but you are OK with the creation ex nihilo and all the rest of the miracles claimed in the text?
Just imagine the ark was a TARDIS.
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@EtrnlVw
Well you know you aren't required to believe it, it won't change your relation or beliefs in God. So, it doesn't really matter whether it happened or not
It does because if the story is fake, its grounds to assume the whole bible is fake.
there is no useful information in the Bible either, but you aren't required to believe in the Noah's Ark account as a literal account.
There is useful information in the bible, but I can take what I like from the bible and ignore the rest if I'm not Christian. If I was Christian, I would have to obey the bible as much as plausible, otherwise I'd be afraid of hell.
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@Dr.Franklin
According to the Jewish calendar, 5778 is the number of years since Adam's sin. 5778-2020=3758 years before Christ. Moses was alive like 1500 years after Adam I think, so he built the ark around 2000 BC. Maybe a bit earlier, but nowhere near 6000 BCE as what the article claimed.
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@Dr.Franklin
its regional and was scientifically proven
Completely wrong. You quoted from the Hindustan times which stated:
could have been an actual event caused by unprecedented worldwide floods triggered in Canada in 6000 BC, says a new theory.
The article is also inaccurate and contradicts itself:
a remnant of which is today's Lake Winnipeg - suddenly burst its banks 8,000 years ago, triggering worldwide deluge.
Whichever time you believe it would be inconsistent with most reports that flood occurred some 4000 years ago.
The report did not conclude that the flood was scientifically proven and its chronology is completely skewed.
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@EtrnlVw
Similarly, one is not required to believe the Bible's account of creation as a literal account.but you aren't required to believe in the Noah's Ark account as a literal account.
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@Dr.Franklin
The Bible never claimed 2000 BC, what verse are you referring to?
No, there is no verse in the Bible that states the (alleged) flood occurred in 2000 BC. But through totalling the timelines of generations from Adam and Eve through to Noah and his (alleged) age at the time, the accurate figure of 2000 years can be deduced.
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@Alec
There are a lot of questions that could play factors as to whether or not the ark carrying animals for 40 days/night is plausible. Like their measurements possibly being different than ours, how many animals could be reduced in relation to what is meant by kinds (like were zebras included as well as horses?), how the numbers of animals could be reduced when eliminating one's that could survive a flood, the age of the animals, etc.
There seems to be a lot of info on line suggesting the plausibility of Noah's ark. I think it's worthwhile to check them out. They may not all be accurate, but some of them might be. And I think Ethan gave a link to a website stating that some scientists concluded that a world wide flood may have happened.
I think it's good though that you seem to look beyond the trap that I think many fall into by assuming it's a fairy tale. I think the common visual we're given are from bible story books for kids where I small boat is shown with animal heads poking out from the top including giraffes with necks longer than the boat.
The first step is to understand that transporting animals on a boat is a common thing. And that animals will disperse from captivity to an ideal location with an environment that suits their needs and preferences.
From there, the logistics have got to be so complex, so many factors, I don't think it's wise to write it off as a fairy tale.
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@rosends
Just imagine the ark was a TARDIS.
I would say that makes more sense.
However, the writers of the Bible (and many other accounts circulating around the time) could have dispensed with the building of an almighty Ark and simply write that Noah knocked up a wooden booth.
It would have suited Noah since he was known to be an alcoholic and did not have much in the way of hired hands to help him.
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@Tyrant_Rex
Maybe, but it doesn't take 100 years to build a phone booth. It had to have the veneer of reasonability in size, scope and shape (at least IMHO).
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@RoderickSpode
The first step is to understand that transporting animals on a boat is a common thing. And that animals will disperse from captivity to an ideal location with an environment that suits their needs and preferences.From there, the logistics have got to be so complex, so many factors, I don't think it's wise to write it off as a fairy tale.
But not so many animals from all parts of the world. Even if one were to accept that continental drift still had not occurred 4000 years ago it would be absurd to think that a pair of penguins and a pair of kangaroos walked off the Ark and migrated to their designated countries without procreating along the way.
Ethong's account, by the way, was that subterranean water trapped in porous rock somehow bubbled up through the ground which is a geological impossibility.
There has not been one account of the flood nor Noah's Arc that has been reasonably proved. In fact, most have been completely disproven as hoaxes. For example, the so-called discovery of the skeletal remains of the Arc found at the foot of Mt Ararat. It was well documented and filmed. It turned out that the Turkish Tourist Commission paid some Kurdish tribesmen to lug quantities of fossilised wood from the Dead Sea and bury them at the site in order to attract more tourism.
Of course, "scientists" took the bait and carbon-dated the "evidence" ok but of course, the scam was realised....oh, and the "scientists" just happened to belong to the Noah's Arc Society based in Hong Kong.
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@Alec
An extraordinary meteorological event ceded to myth, along with accompanying tall tales.
Maybe a shepherd rescued their flock from the floods in a boat.
And of course, as no one at the time really knew why such things happened, it would have been the norm to blame it all on a god.
The stupid thing is though, some people still have a tendency believe that gods are the reason behind extreme weather.
But you can't rule it out I suppose.....Even though for some people proof and belief are not necessarily interdependent.
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@Alec
Noah's ark doesn't make sense
Of course it doesn't and never will if taken as written. Its a lie a bare faced lie and if there was to found any truth to it, it would be as it is written in the bible.
You have picked a good subject that could go on for pages or die withing ten posts. Start by asking the apologist how did wombats and kangaroos, Emu, eastern brown snake, tiger snake,wolf spider,wedge-tailed eagle, banjo frog and Blue-tongued skink, Koala, Echidna, Wombat and MILLIONS more get onto the Ark. Then there is the logistics of the food. the koala mainly eats eucalyptus leaves. You should be able to see already how stupid this story is as it is conveyed to us in the unreliable scriptures.
All the animals.
2 blue Whales. 2 False killer whales.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Water animals aren't getting stored.
Noah's job resume.
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@Alec
I'm a look into this alec.
But You have to think one male and one female of every animal. Inc the water variety.
But . It probably doesn't even say that.
Alec. Are you sure?
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@Alec
It does because if the story is fake, its grounds to assume the whole bible is fake.
While I think that is a bit extreme, how would that mean God doesn't exist? God's existence doesn't depend on the Bible.
There is useful information in the bible, but I can take what I like from the bible and ignore the rest if I'm not Christian. If I was Christian, I would have to obey the bible as much as plausible, otherwise I'd be afraid of hell.
Not really. Do you have a reason to believe such a thing?
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@EtrnlVw
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EtrnlVw,
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YOUR UNBELIEVABLE UNGODLY QUOTE!!!!: "Well you know you aren't required to believe it, it won't change your relation or beliefs in God. So, it doesn't really matter whether it happened or not.”
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WHAT DID YOU JUST STATE???! There are times within this Religion Forum where I think, naw, the pseudo-christian like you can't get any more biblically dumbfounded, ignorant, and stupid, but then, Jesus and I run across your post #4 stating that you really don't have to believe in Jesus' Great Flood scenario because it won't change your relation to beliefs in Yahweh/Jesus. BLASPHEME!
“EVERY WORD OF GOD IS FLAWLESS; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5) Get it bible fool?
EtrnlVw, when your Devil Speak proffers such blatant biblical stupidity and wilful ignorance in your post #4, then subsequently you are calling the following biblical characters as LIARS because they state that the Noahan Flood actually happened!!!
YOU ARE CALLING JESUS CHRIST A LIAR WHEN HE SAID: "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matthew 24:38-39)
YOU ARE CALLING JESUS, AS YAHWEH GOD INCARNATE, A LIAR WHEN HE SAID: “And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. (Genesis 9:11)
YOU ARE CALLING JESUS, AS YAHWEH GOD INCARNATE, A LIAR WHEN HE SAID: “And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant that I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all future generations: I have set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and the earth. When I bring clouds over the earth and the bow is seen in the clouds, I will remember my covenant that is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh. And the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh.” (Genesus 9: 12-17)
YOU ARE CALLING JESUS, AS YAHWEH GOD INCARNATE, A LIAR WHEN HE SAID: “This is like the days of Noah to me: as I swore that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth, so I have sworn that I will not be angry with you, and will not rebuke you.” (Isaiah 54:9)
YOU ARE CALLING PETER A LIAR WHEN HE SAID: "By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed." (2 Peter 3:6)
YOU ARE CALLING LUKE A LIAR WHEN HE SAID: “They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.” (Luke 17:27)
YOU ARE CALLING PAUL A LIAR WHEN HE SAID: “By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.” Hebrews 11:7)
YOU ARE CALLING MOSES A LIAR WHEN HE SAID: “The Lord sits enthroned over the flood; he Lord sits enthroned as king forever.” (Psalm 29:10)
EtrnlVw, seriously, maybe you can talk to the moderators to get your embarrassing post #4, and rebuttals to said post, removed to save yourself any further and laughable embarrassment on this forum? Yes? Otherwise, this memorable post #4 of yours in slapping the inspired word of Jesus’ Great Flood scenario in actually happening, will unfortunately live with you for as long as you remain within this forum! I even had to take a screen shot of your Satanic post #4 because I couldn’t believe a pseudo-christian like you could ever be SO BLATANTLY BIBLE IGNORANT!!!
For obvious reasons, here is a picture of the Satanic EtrnlVw’s bible:
https://klifeminorg.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/bible-cutout-e1501769489506.jpg
EtrnlVw, tell us, are you vying to be the number one BIBLE IGNORANT pseudo-christian on DEBATEART? LOL!
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@Alec
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Alec,
YOUR QUOTE: "I don't see how you can fit over 13 million animals into a volume 1/3 the size of the titanic, which is smaller than almost all cruses."
I am sorry, but your figures of the approximate number of animals upon Noah's Ark are not correct. The closer number should read approximately 19.2 million animals upon the 450 foot long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high Noah's ark (Genesis, chapter 6). This is because of the biblical axiom of the following passage and the number of species within the world at this time (http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.1001127 ).
Jesus, as Yahweh God incarnate, stated: "Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate," (Genesis 7:2) This deduces to 9 pairs of animals equaling 18 in number. Therefore biblically, taking 18 animals of each kind and multiplying it by the known number of species of said animals on earth at this time, which is approximately 1.2 million, then you come up to an approximate total of 19.2 million of animals that were upon Noah's ark. Simple enough? Biblically speaking, sure it is.
What disgusts TRUE Christians like me that have to accept the above godly propositions as true, is that the Hell Bound liberals show within religious books that there is only one pair of animal upon Noah's Ark! BLASPHEME! They will pay upon Judgment Day, praise!
This dissertation of course does not account for 18 of each specie of whales that had to be upon the 450 foot long Ark within ocean salt water to keep them alive. Anyway, you get the gist of Jesus' Great Flood narrative, don't you?
In a godly fashion, may I suggest that you do not pay attention to the outright biblically ignorant EtrnlVw anymore? This is because it was easily shown by me that this minion of Satan is one of the most Bible ignorant pseudo-christians upon DEBATEART in my post #23 to him! He has enough problems with showing the following inspired by Jesus passage: "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will perish." (Proverbs 19:9)
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@BrotherDThomas
Settle down before you burst a blood vessel. Get a grip.
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@EtrnlVw
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EtrnlVw
YOUR IRRELATIVE AND REVEALING QUOTE DEFINES YOU OF BEING EMBARRASSED TO NO END!: "Settle down before you burst a blood vessel. Get a grip."
Hmmm, in turn, obviously the only one that needs to get a grip of bible reality is YOU because of your post #4 calling esteemed Bible characters, INCLUDING JESUS, as LIARS!! We didn't see you use pseudo-christian apologetic spin doctoring to try and get out of your complete biblical ignorance, therefore, why are we not surprised? At least "try," although I will easily make sure it will be in vain once again, understood?
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Have you notified the moderators to try and remove your post #4 in being one of the most embarrassing posts that a pseudo-christian like you could ever make here at DEBATEART? Huh? Maybe give them time to compose themselves from laughing their asses off regarding your post #4! Yes?
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I am in a few other Christian discussion forums and they have a stationary post at the top of the main page of discussion where we list some of the most outrageous bible ignorant posts that we have ever seen, and guess what, you are providing laughable and spirited conversation when I posted yours! Satan is smiling in your behalf. Congratulations, but Jesus is NOT smiling regarding your ungodly post where I would give anything to see you pass the Pearly Gates and then Jesus confronts you upon you calling Him a LIAR!
Oh well, Jesus, as Yahweh God incarnate, did't create Hell and not plan on using it, especially in your case of calling Him a LIAR!
"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, AND ALL LIARS, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)
EtrnlVw, shhhhhh, don't worry, I will put aside the biblical axiom that you are now guilty of the dreadful "Unpardonable Sin," and the horrific ramifications thereof, okay? You can thank me later. Shhhhhhhh, mums the word. :(
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@EtrnlVw
The devil is the accuser of the brethern, just ignore thomas.
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@zedvictor4
And of course, as no one at the time really knew why such things happened, it would have been the norm to blame it all on a god.
Wouldn't that be a bit progressive for a primitive?
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@EtrnlVw
That's right. God's existence depends on the fact that everything must have been created.While I think that is a bit extreme, how would that mean God doesn't exist? God's existence doesn't depend on the Bible.
And that's a fact because it's a fact, isn't it? :)
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@RoderickSpode
A primitive what?
As ever there has always been clever folk and less clever folk.
Imagining a god in ones own image is pretty basic stuff....Especially if a clever clogs tells you what you should be imagining.
Though back in biblical times, I think you will find that civilisations were getting somewhat beyond primitive.