Reasons To Believe In God:* To take control over and manipulate others for one's own self-serving ends.
* For cultural or family pressure reasons through naivety, gullibility or vulnerability.
* Out of sheer ignorance and arrogance to satisfy a selfish distorted ego.
Reason Not To Believe In God:* There is no God.
"....to give hope and make sense of existence and life's most important questions...."
"Perhaps for most a big factor but not necessarily false, depending on the belief system"
"Or because of trying to find meaning without first presupposing God is a fools errand. I challenge you to try and establish meaning and I'll test you on how you know and why your limited subjective view is any better than any other."
"So says the fool, according to the Bible. I would agree with that assessment since a person's limited mind cannot know there is no God. They would have to be all-knowing to determine that, and it would be easy to show they are not all-knowing, thus they fail to provide what is necessary for knowing such things."
No one here preaches more, or more often than you.it is half-wits who try to preach a load of superstitious, mythological crap...
"....to give hope and make sense of existence and life's most important questions...."You mean: to give false (yes, it is false) hope through the used of guilt and fear of a promised afterlife.
"Perhaps for most a big factor but not necessarily false, depending on the belief system"Who are you kidding? All religions are based on false premises.
"Or because of trying to find meaning without first presupposing God is a fools errand. I challenge you to try and establish meaning and I'll test you on how you know and why your limited subjective view is any better than any other."If Religious followers did not have the limited subjective view (that they are proven to have) they would not presuppose God in the first place.
"So says the fool, according to the Bible. I would agree with that assessment since a person's limited mind cannot know there is no God. They would have to be all-knowing to determine that, and it would be easy to show they are not all-knowing, thus they fail to provide what is necessary for knowing such things."It looks so nice reciting religious rhetoric doesn't it?But you are really insulting the intelligence of anybody with more than half a brain who have done their research to discover it is half-wits who try to preach a load of superstitious, mythological crap to the rest of the world on the false pretexts that it is true and they are not deluded.
All worldviews start with presuppositions.
All worldviews start with presuppositions.How do we choose which to start with?
And what accounts for the change in the way people assess their own suppositions, given that many people move from one to another (allowing of course that "I don't know" is in fact a presupposition according to your terms, which I disagree with)?
Your cultural environment could influence you; your parents; reading; hearing from a close friend; through education; the media; entertainment, etc.
Leave the belief and build on another one or live with it knowing that it is not true. Sometimes people prefer the latter because they have invested so much into that belief system and it is a crutch for them.I don't think many choose by feeling alone although I am not saying this can't be the case.
Your cultural environment could influence you; your parents; reading; hearing from a close friend; through education; the media; entertainment, etc.Would "actively taught at a very suggestible age" be among these reasons?
This is often how american Christianity is transmitted.
The null position that you're calling a pre-supposition is not taught this way, almost at all. The null position often comes from ideas like "Well, if I'm a Christian and I'm going to heaven, and my girlfriend is Jewish, she'd be going to hell, wait, how do I know I'm right and she's wrong?" lines of questioning. In other words, I find that religious positions and presuppositions are taught at a fundamental time in a person's development, while atheist / null positions are almost uniquely arrived at through independent thought. I don't think 'null' is presupposed in almost any case, it's almost always concluded, whereas religious positions, Christians or otherwise, are often the result of childhood inculcation.
Leave the belief and build on another one or live with it knowing that it is not true. Sometimes people prefer the latter because they have invested so much into that belief system and it is a crutch for them.I don't think many choose by feeling alone although I am not saying this can't be the case.Are you saying you think many people who living with a belief knowing it's not true are doing so out of personal discomfort with the alternative?
Not in the slightest, no, but it does differentiate it from the null position and perhaps as importantly it doesn't differentiate it from any other religion on earth. You presuppose Jesus, a hindu presupposes whatever the hindu pantheon looks like, an aboriginee presupposes aboriginal gods, and greeks presupposed their pantheon. These would all start from exactly the same starting line. It goes to my question of how do you choose which presupposition is the right one to start from.That, however, does not disqualify it from being true.
The null position that you're calling a pre-supposition is not taught this way, almost at all. The null position often comes from ideas like "Well, if I'm a Christian and I'm going to heaven, and my girlfriend is Jewish, she'd be going to hell, wait, how do I know I'm right and she's wrong?" lines of questioning. In other words, I find that religious positions and presuppositions are taught at a fundamental time in a person's development, while atheist / null positions are almost uniquely arrived at through independent thought. I don't think 'null' is presupposed in almost any case, it's almost always concluded, whereas religious positions, Christians or otherwise, are often the result of childhood inculcation.Sure, that can be the case. The heart of the issue is where a person stands with God and what they truly believe. Do they truly trust Jesus as their Lord and Savior? Many people profess but not everyone trusts Jesus for who He is and what He has done on behalf of those who will believe.
make sense of existence and life's most important questions.
Your cultural environment could influence you; your parents; reading; hearing from a close friend; through education; the media; entertainment, etc.Would "actively taught at a very suggestible age" be among these reasons?
This is often how american Christianity is transmitted.
The null position that you're calling a pre-supposition is not taught this way, almost at all. The null position often comes from ideas like "Well, if I'm a Christian and I'm going to heaven, and my girlfriend is Jewish, she'd be going to hell, wait, how do I know I'm right and she's wrong?" lines of questioning. In other words, I find that religious positions and presuppositions are taught at a fundamental time in a person's development, while atheist / null positions are almost uniquely arrived at through independent thought. I don't think 'null' is presupposed in almost any case, it's almost always concluded, whereas religious positions, Christians or otherwise, are often the result of childhood inculcation.
Leave the belief and build on another one or live with it knowing that it is not true. Sometimes people prefer the latter because they have invested so much into that belief system and it is a crutch for them.I don't think many choose by feeling alone although I am not saying this can't be the case.Are you saying you think many people who living with a belief knowing it's not true are doing so out of personal discomfort with the alternative?
That is the most stupid and ignorantly arrogant statement anyone could ever make.What I am saying with that particular sentence is that some people who believe in God are willing to take Him exclusively on His word and do not need the other external verification. The eternal verification is often an apologetic or apology for the unbeliever, but it also strengthens our faith.
make sense of existence and life's most important questions.And what are life's most important questions?
They are, Stephen,1) What are we?
(2) Who am I?
3) Why am I here?
4) What difference does it make?
5) How can I be sure or what is necessary for surety?
6) What happens to me when I physically die.
How you or I answer these is how you or I will live your or my life IF you or I am being consistent to what we state and not lying to yourself or myself.
Why am I here?
Why is that important?
Now you tell me. Why did your god create anything, at all, in the first place?
Most definitely and the Word of God says to train a person up in the faith when they are young so that they will not easily depart from it.
How well does it answer the ultimate questions of life? It fails miserably.
* To take control over and manipulate others for one's own self-serving ends.
* For cultural or family pressure reasons through naivety, gullibility or vulnerability.
* Out of sheer ignorance and arrogance to satisfy a selfish distorted ego.
8 days later
make sense of existence and life's most important questions.And what are life's most important questions?They are, Stephen,1) What are we?Why is that an important question?
(2) Who am I?I don't see that as an important question.
3) Why am I here?Why is that important?
4) What difference does it make?That is your best question so far and the answer from my stand point is that it makes no difference whatsoever.
5) How can I be sure or what is necessary for surety?That makes no sense to me at all. Sure of what?6) What happens to me when I physically die.That question is not important to me and neither should it be to you.How you or I answer these is how you or I will live your or my life IF you or I am being consistent to what we state and not lying to yourself or myself.Life changes all the time as do opinions and beliefs.
Now you tell me. Why did your god create anything, at all, in the first place?
And, such hope is false since there is not one ounce of evidence to justify such hope. Nor do we need religion to make sense of "life's most important questions" Think about it....who the heck ever said there was no sense to life's most important questions?Or to give hope and make sense of existence and life's most important questions.
